D6c cat loss of oil pressure

[Steve.ahlgren85]

I meant to say converter case. The oil that drained out, looked to be heavier than transmission oil.It looked pretty thick, about three gallons!So I shouldn't add any oil to the converter case?

 

[Old Magnet]

I hate to even get involved in this mess!!! No you don't add oil to the torque converter cover sump. Oil that accumulates there is leakage from the torque converter and it is the function of the scavenge pump to transfer this oil to the transmission. If leakage exceeds the scavenge pump capacity and the oil level reaches the spinning torque converter their will be major power loss, foaming and overheating of the transmission oil----requiring a torque converter reseal and possible overhaul. Capacity of the scavenge pump could also be in question.

 

[kshansen]

I hate to even get involved in this mess!!! No you don't add oil to the torque converter cover sump. Oil that accumulates there is leakage from the torque converter and it is the function of the scavenge pump to transfer this oil to the transmission. If leakage exceeds the scavenge pump capacity and the oil level reaches the spinning torque converter their will be major power loss, foaming and overheating of the transmission oil----requiring a torque converter reseal and possible overhaul. Capacity of the scavenge pump could also be in question.

I tried to do a search on the forum about how much oil you might find in the converter housing, could not find anything right off. But off the top of my head 3 gallons sounds a little excessive. I would at the very least pull the suction line and screen to make sure it is not plugged. An inspection of the scavenge pump would also not be a bad idea.

This is one of those reasons I would not want to pull a converter out of a machine with out resealing it unless I was 100% sure it was perfect or had just been rebuilt in the last year. 90% of the labor is already done and for a few more dollars in gaskets and seals you will know it is right when engine goes back in. I believe the converter in a D6 is similar to that in a 966C and I have seen many of those where the vanes in the stator are getting very loose. Actually don't recall one failing but if one did that would not be pretty!

 

[Old Magnet]

I tried to do a search on the forum about how much oil you might find in the converter housing, could not find anything right off. But off the top of my head 3 gallons sounds a little excessive. I would at the very least pull the suction line and screen to make sure it is not plugged. An inspection of the scavenge pump would also not be a bad idea.

This is one of those reasons I would not want to pull a converter out of a machine with out resealing it unless I was 100% sure it was perfect or had just been rebuilt in the last year. 90% of the labor is already done and for a few more dollars in gaskets and seals you will know it is right when engine goes back in. I believe the converter in a D6 is similar to that in a 966C and I have seen many of those where the vanes in the stator are getting very loose. Actually don't recall one failing but if one did that would not be pretty!

Agreed, 3 gpm under operating conditions would be excessive leakage. Pump is rated at 3.2 gpm. Torque converter stall test is usually for one minute to check on leakage rate. Now would be the time to check the converter and scavenge pump.

 

[Hobbytime]

Well if this is a powershift D6 and you filled the transmission to the correct level and recheck it per the manual after you have it running it should be good to go.

I admit I'm a bit confused by this statement:
"When I took it off,about three gallons of heavy gear lube came out of the crankcase. "
I have no idea of what you are talking about when you say "flywheel crankcase" and then you use the term "converter case".
There is something wrong if there is heavy gear lube in a torque converter, what is in the transmission?
If I'm off base here and there is suppose to be heavy gear lube in that area I hope someone can point me to the correct information.


Your hand only really controls the pressure on the spring in the governor, it's not like the throttle in a carburetor engine where the linkage is connected directly to the butterflies in the carb. It's your money and life so if you choose not to take advice from those of us who have a combined knowledge of hundreds of years go for it! Just noticed your location, do a search on awards by that name.

LOL..I was wondering when someone would connect the dots, but being new here I didnt want to bring it up....

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . .

Why would the engine take off and run wild if I am controlling the fuel pump handle?

Your lack of understanding of the basics is frightening.

As pointed out above by kshansen the 'throttle' control regulates the pressure on the governor spring . . . if there is a malfunction in the governor or fuel pump (often due to uninformed personnel adjusting or dismantling components they know SFA about) any diesel can 'run away'.

A possible cause of runaway at start up is if a turbo has been played with by folks who know SFA about what they are doing and damage seals allowing crankcase oil to get into the intake . . . I have seen that happen. Very spectacular and expensive unless you have a kill plate handy as others here have mentioned.

An engine overfull of oil can run away, a worn engine can run away on crankcase vapours, it can and does happen.

Cheers.

 

[Old Magnet]

Hey, a couple questions for my friends on the forum. I am finishing up putting the new engine together and would like to know if I should add oil to the flywheel crankcase or does it get oil from the transmission case?When I took it off,about three gallons of heavy gear lube came out of the crankcase. Also, what is the most accurate way of timing the fuel pump?

What was the procedure you used to time the injection pump? Takes some special tooling to check/set whether it be scroll or sleeve metering type pump.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

#1 cylinder at top dead center, 5/16th pin in the flywheel, 1/4 in.drill bit in the fuel pump shaft,turned the gear until the drill bit slipped into notch in the pump shaft ,with gear loose on shaft, then tightened the gear bolt. Sleeve metering system.Everything seems to be going together great! Thanks

 

[DoyleX]

#1 cylinder at top dead center, 5/16th pin in the flywheel, 1/4 in.drill bit in the fuel pump shaft,turned the gear until the drill bit slipped into notch in the pump shaft ,with gear loose on shaft, then tightened the gear bolt. Sleeve metering system.Everything seems to be going together great! Thanks

Well not the most absolutely correct way but will pass for being a farmer. Make sure you tightened the bolt with the holder. I have seen the gears slip on the shaft.

Yup, thick black gear oil looking stuff in the converter housing. Time to do the back half! And that will be a easy 20-30k.
I woulda resealed the TC at the minimum if I had it out with the engine.

 

[kshansen]

Guys, thanks for the assurance I was not being out of line for voicing my thoughts. I know I can at times seem to be very free with other people's money and time but just don't want to find out that because I kept my mouth shut someone lost thousands of dollars or got hurt.

I know I could scare the heck out of some if I brought up some of the things I have done in a pinch to get something running. But most of the time I was fully aware of what the negative outcome could be and had approval from the powers that be to "Get It Done!"

 

[DMiller]

We've been fighting with these machines probably longer than you have been around. Lots of insight, lots of hard lessons learned be mindful that when someone says something it could be a dividing line between success or salvage.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Yah, I know you have my best interests in mind. It's a little hard to hear though. Thanks for all of the comments. I have read them all.

 

[51kw]

Update? Busy working it? Scrap it?

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

I am getting close to start up. We have been scuba diving in Cozumel, have been working just part time on the reconstruct.Also am getting ready to lose more money FARMING!!

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Scrap it???I When I am done with this machine, it's going to have a new paint job and new decals.You will not believe the transformation!!

 

[old-iron-habit]

Scrap it???I When I am done with this machine, it's going to have a new paint job and new decals.You will not believe the transformation!!

Perserverence and paint. Sounds like a good combination. We all are waiting for the start up video.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Finally got this mahine to start up after getting the air out of the fuel line. How much time does it take for the oil pressure to build and show on the pressure gauge?I am a little gun shy after what I have been through with this machine!!She ran for about 20 seconds, no reading on the gauge so I shut her down. Your response is greatly appreciated,

 

[kshansen]

Finally got this mahine to start up after getting the air out of the fuel line. How much time does it take for the oil pressure to build and show on the pressure gauge?I am a little gun shy after what I have been through with this machine!!She ran for about 20 seconds, no reading on the gauge so I shut her down. Your response is greatly appreciated,

If you had to crank it for any amount of time to bleed the air out of the fuel lines I would think you would have pressure BEFORE it even started.

I know on any rebuilt engine we did we would not even let the engine fire till we saw pressure.

First this is are you sure the gauge works? As I recall this machine had a major failure that filled everything with metal crap. I believe I had said something about making sure each and everything that oil touches is either cleaned spotless or replaced. Well the oil pressure gauge sure would touch the oil. Very possible the line and or gauge has metal particles in it causing it to not work.

First thing would be to disconnect the line at both ends and blow air through it in both directions and then flush out with some penetrating oil. Then wash the end of the gauge where the line connects with something like brake clean. Test to see if it works with some air pressure and then hook line back on the gauge and blow air in from the engine end to prove it still works.

Then before connecting at engine crank engine over with fuel in shut down position to see if there is any oil flow. Now connect the line that goes to gauge and again with fuel in shut down position try cranking over to see oil pressure on gauge. It should not take too long if the engine is assembled correctly.

If still no pressure you need to install another gauge right at the engine and again crank without stating to see if you have pressure.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Thanks so much. I really value your wisdom. I made sure that I cleaned and blew out the oil

If you had to crank it for any amount of time to bleed the air out of the fuel lines I would think you would have pressure BEFORE it even started.

I know on any rebuilt engine we did we would not even let the engine fire till we saw pressure.

First this is are you sure the gauge works? As I recall this machine had a major failure that filled everything with metal crap. I believe I had said something about making sure each and everything that oil touches is either cleaned spotless or replaced. Well the oil pressure gauge sure would touch the oil. Very possible the line and or gauge has metal particles in it causing it to not work.

First thing would be to disconnect the line at both ends and blow air through it in both directions and then flush out with some penetrating oil. Then wash the end of the gauge where the line connects with something like brake clean. Test to see if it works with some air pressure and then hook line back on the gauge and blow air in from the engine end to prove it still works.

Then before connecting at engine crank engine over with fuel in shut down position to see if there is any oil flow. Now connect the line that goes to gauge and again with fuel in shut down position try cranking over to see oil pressure on gauge. It should not take too long if the engine is assembled correctly.

If still no pressure you need to install another gauge right at the engine and again cra

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Thanks for the response. I took off the elbow on the oil pressure line on the engine, turned the engine over a few revolutions, there's no oil coming from the engine! Is there anything else, short of taking the pan off again, that could be causing this?the oil line is clean and open!