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Cummins N14 engine; good engine, or not???

mowingman

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Looking at buying one or two older truck tractors to use for pulling end dump trailers. One is a 98 Kenworth,with N14-370E Cummins and 10 speed. The other is a 2000 International with an N14-370E and 10 speed.
I always liked the old big cam Cummins, but know nothing about these N14 engines. Are they durable and long lasting, or low mileage throwaways.
Both trucks were used to haul freight over the road in a previous life, then used by farmers/ranchers last. Both look clean and well maintained. The engines have me concerned though.
Thanks
 

Andrew_D

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Well, you are going to likely hear from both sides of the story on the N14's - same as every other engine out there!

We've had great luck with the N14's. No emissions systems to worry about. Good on fuel. Trouble free. My current KW is 15 years old with 1,600,000km (1,000,000miles). I've done injectors, bottom bearings (because it was in the shop for something else and we were waiting for parts. It was at 900,000km so I figured why not?), and an ECM this past spring. Other than that, it's been great.

The ISX on the other hand, we've had horrible luck with. One (2002) went through an ECM every 6 months like clockwork. Another (2012) had emissions problems to no end. It was going through valve stem seals/orings, DPF filters, turbos, etc. Driver finally wrote it off in an accident.

Andrew
 

Shimmy1

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I have two, my uncle has one, I have a friend who has two more. IMO the best engine Cummins ever built. I have heard of guys having some ECM trouble, but you get same thing with Detroit or Cat. Those 370E's you're looking at should be just fine. Hopefully they are 370@1800 rpm engines. Then I'd go as far as to say they should be like new inside. I would recommend getting them turned up to 2100 rpm. Much more drivable. No matter what color paint, EVERY engine is going to fail at some point. There are going to be some on here that are going to trash them, but the chances of an N14 outlasting any FULLY ELECTRONIC Caterpillar is an almost sure bet. I have been over the road 1.5 million miles, my buddy has ran close to 3 million, and my uncle has over 4. The N14 is one of the best.
 

Shimmy1

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ECM this past spring

What happened to ECM? Bad harness and ate a bunch of oil? Just curious. In my other post I.mentioned I have heard of ECM replacement, but both of mine have over 900,000 miles and original ECM. On a secondary note, did you notice a drop in mileage with the new ECM? I know a few cases where someone replaced the ECM and mileage went into the toilet. Only way to get it back was a P.D.I. or Pittsburgh Power program.
 

Andrew_D

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What happened to ECM? Bad harness and ate a bunch of oil? Just curious. In my other post I.mentioned I have heard of ECM replacement, but both of mine have over 900,000 miles and original ECM. On a secondary note, did you notice a drop in mileage with the new ECM? I know a few cases where someone replaced the ECM and mileage went into the toilet. Only way to get it back was a P.D.I. or Pittsburgh Power program.

No idea. Was driving down the road when the shut down engine light came on. A quick scan of gauges revealed all should be OK, so I drove the 1/4mile to the yard and shut off the key. No re-start. Check the codes and called a shop with the code I got out. (I think it was 101?) Anyway, the code was "ECM bad. May continue to run. Will not restart if shutdown." Crap! Shouldn't have shut it off!

New ECM 2 days later and it was 100%.

Andrew
 

Andrew_D

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I have two, my uncle has one, I have a friend who has two more. IMO the best engine Cummins ever built. I have heard of guys having some ECM trouble, but you get same thing with Detroit or Cat. Those 370E's you're looking at should be just fine. Hopefully they are 370@1800 rpm engines. Then I'd go as far as to say they should be like new inside. I would recommend getting them turned up to 2100 rpm. Much more drivable. No matter what color paint, EVERY engine is going to fail at some point. There are going to be some on here that are going to trash them, but the chances of an N14 outlasting any FULLY ELECTRONIC Caterpillar is an almost sure bet. I have been over the road 1.5 million miles, my buddy has ran close to 3 million, and my uncle has over 4. The N14 is one of the best.

Don't be running them at 1800-2100rpm (when accelerating or cruising). The older mechanical engines tolerated it, but the electronic ones don't. Mine is set for 525HP, 1650lb torque. I upshift between 1400-1500rpm pulling 137,500lbs. Now downshifting is a different story. Bring it up to 2100 when downshifting and let the engine brake do it's work!

Andrew
 

Shimmy1

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Don't be running them at 1800-2100rpm (when accelerating or cruising). The older mechanical engines tolerated it, but the electronic ones don't. Mine is set for 525HP, 1650lb torque. I upshift between 1400-1500rpm pulling 137,500lbs. Now downshifting is a different story. Bring it up to 2100 when downshifting and let the engine brake do it's work!

Only reason I say to turn it up is I have driven a few older NTC's that were Formulas. I know it's probably a completely different game, but the Formulas ran out of gas at about 15-1600. Now, I don't run my N14 much over 1500 when I upshift, but sometimes the situation arises when you need to wind her up to 1800. Not often, but when you need it, it's there. An 1800 rpm engine, it'll never be there.
 

jteck75

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The construction company I used to wrench for had one in a Case 9370 (?I think) tractor that they pulled a pan with. The rest of the tractor had issues but other than routine service,I never had to break loose a bolt on the N14 that powered it.
 

lantraxco

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I've been aquainted with a few in off-road service, 425hp @ 2100 versions on a hydrostatic drive, using all of it most of the time... pretty much bullet proof in my view. As far as the ECM, stuff happens but keep everything clean, maintain the batteries and charging system, especially keep the battery terminals clean and all the grounds in good condition should help a bunch. Bad connections especially on grounds and ground straps can cause electricity to flow where it shouldn't and let the magic smoke out of things, even if you can't always see it. Drive it like you stole it!
 

mitch504

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Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but isn't the N14 just the electronically updated version of the old 855 cu in Cummins Ns?
 

Blk prince

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Just to put in my five cents. There is a local contractor who swears by N-14. He has bought several gliders saw he can install this Cummins and has had very good success. Nothing wrong with Cumminsbbut I am a Cat man.
 

DoyleX

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updated version of the old 855
More or less yes. That basic design goes wayyy back past the 855 days. A lot of external parts interchange, some internal also. They did make a short run of mechanical N14's
 

AKSNOW

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Off topic a wee,but since you guys seem to have lots of knowledge on Cummins I was wondering about the M11c? Any problems associated with these? I've heard keep the coolant fresh and same as lantraxo said about batteries and grounds. Thanks
 

mowingman

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Thanks for the info on the N14. Went and looked at the trucks, and drove the Kenworth on a test run. If all goes as planned, we are going to buy the Kenworth. It seems to be a real solid truck. I noticed a maintenance record sticker on the ECM box that showed new replacement installed in 2010. Maybe one less worry there.
As a bonus, while talking to the seller in his shop, I got to looking over an old Case360 trencher he had stored in a corner, with the Deutz engine and a backfill blade. S?N makes it about a 1996 model. He noticed my interest and asked if I wanted to buy it, since he has not used it in 2 or 3 years. I think we are talking about a price of around $500 - $600. Never know what you will stumble across out there.
 

mitch504

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More or less yes. That basic design goes wayyy back past the 855 days. A lot of external parts interchange, some internal also. They did make a short run of mechanical N14's

Yeah, I have a couple of 743s, ones a '62 model. I didn't know they made any mechanical N14s, though. I thought they went to liters the same time they went electronic.
 

Shimmy1

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Off topic a wee,but since you guys seem to have lots of knowledge on Cummins I was wondering about the M11c? Any problems associated with these? I've heard keep the coolant fresh and same as lantraxo said about batteries and grounds. Thanks
Same as any other, really. I have never heard of ECM trouble on M11/ISM. Some guys claim that the heads are shot at 500,000. I have had a couple in tandem dump trucks, never had any problems. I hauled sugar beets down in Wahpeton for MinnDak in the early 2000's. They had a fleet of 9200 IH. 330 hp, 9 sp. They all went 800,000, more than a few went 900,000, I think at least 3 had a million on them when they replaced them. Longest haul was 30 miles one way.
 

Shimmy1

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Yeah, I have a couple of 743s, ones a '62 model. I didn't know they made any mechanical N14s, though. I thought they went to liters the same time they went electronic.
Case IH used the mechanicals in their tractors. 9260-9280, 9360-9390 had mechanical N14.
 

mitch504

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Hey Shimmy, since you are another Case man, do you know how the Cummins B3.9 and B5.9 came about?
 

Shimmy1

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Not completely. I'm fairly certain it was a joint venture between Case and Cummins. Case needed something better than the 336, 504 platform, Cummins wanted into the vocational truck and pickup market. They came about in the mid 80's. Case called them a 6T or 6-590 or 830. (T is for turbo, obviously) and same 4T or 4-390. Had Case on the nameplate, no CPL. Yes, the C-series came out the same time. Case used them extensively in construction equipment, CaseIH tractors after the merge (the 94 and 96 series tractors, Maxxim and Magnum tractors, and combines. Cummins put them in Dodge pickups and Ford and Freightliner trucks. Then they were called the B5.9 or C8.3. I don't think I've ever seen a Ford truck with the 5.9 though. Just to muddy things up even more, Komatsu used them as well. Called them a SD6-something or other. Said Komatsu right on the tag. -6 and some -7 excavators, D61, D65 dozers had Cummins engines.

Just my opinion, but I feel that the B-series is one of the best engines designed and produced ever in history. We had one in a 780C Case backhoe. Would start down to -10°F easily, no block heater or ether. Popped a radiator hose once. Got so hot the block turned color. Had a few hydraulic pump failures where the front hydraulic pump seized. Since it was mounted under the fuel pump and drove off the cam gear, when it seized it spun the drive gear on the crank. Bent all 12 pushrods. Replaced the dowel pin, drive gear, and all rods, back to work. That happened twice. Final failure was the camshaft broke right after first bearing journal. Figured that the bearing had been spinning in the block due to all the stress from driving that hydraulic pump. That happened at 9700 hrs. Engine at that time burned no oil, and started first piston up every time.
 
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Muffler Bearing

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As far as working on the N14, I do like that I can lift each head off by myself. But the 3 head design leaves it open to little failures, like the fuel jumper lines between the heads blowing o-rings and spraying fuel all over.
 
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