Coolant exchange/transfer system for heating up diesel dozer in winter?

[roachven7]

So we bought an 89 JD 550b Dozer last year and plan on plowing snow with it this winter. We live off-grid 2 miles up an old unmaintained logging road. Last winter I had a lot of trouble starting it when it got much below 20 degrees Fahrenheit. We live in northern MN so we regularly get low temps and lots of snow. We have limited electricity in the winter and the dang thing doesn't have a block heater anyhow...... A guy I met mentioned something about possibly setting up a coolant transfer system to run the hot coolant from my Toyota truck into the dozer engine block to heat it up for easier starting.... Has anyone ever seen this or know how it's done? Any info anywhere on the internet on setting this up? Thanks

 

[Delmer]

It's pretty basic. Some guys use hydraulic quick couplers attached to the heater hoses to circulate through the cold engine. You could do the same thing with hose clamps if you didn't mind the hassle.

Why not build a wood fired engine heater? The Amish use them sometimes. It coulc be set several feet away from the dozer, then dump the coals out once it starts, and stash it on the dozer, no hoses to unhook, no mixing of different coolants, no blocks cracking if you set it up right. Could use propane if that was more convenient than carrying a bucket of coals, or diesel if you got more creative.

 

[epirbalex]

Sounds like a problem connecting another motor to the dozer . My daughter and her boss used a gas cooker to warm a large wheel tractor that was solid . I was talking to a another Guy about this and he had lit a small fire under a wheel tractor to warm it . Back in the sixties our neighbours had a Cleatrack dozer that had a fire box fitted to it for cold starts . Either way its a hairy job around fuel using fire .

 

[DMiller]

There are pad type, external block heater assemblies, can be run by generators, does not take that long to warm up. Biggest issue with big engines, heavy engines is 'Cold Soak' where Everything is cold as oil, coolant, metals , getting any heat on them at all will loosen things up but you have to warm the whole engine up. We used salamander type heaters at the open air truck lots years ago, basically a kerosene fired ramjet on a skid, some used radiant heaters.
https://www.amazon.com/Kats-24150-Watt-Universal-Heater/dp/B000I8TQD6
http://www.smemporium.com/images/products/detail/enerco_heatstar_HS35LP.png

They make 'Tank Type' engine heaters that are plumbed in with heater hose sized hoses there used to be radiator hose insert heaters and again a small generator with a hour or so run time is all you need.

 

[Jonas302]

Loggers use that kind of quick cuoler setup to run antifreeze from the pickup into skidders quite often
there are also diesel fired engine heaters but probably a little overkill for what you need

 

[DMiller]

Two fifty tonner cranes we had at the plant had propane fueled coolant heaters, had 24v pumps ran off the batteries to start the fire and run a minimal draw pump. Would have those old cranes running in less than an hour.

 

[crane operator]

In Iowa we had a set of hydraulic couplers/ hoses plumbed into the coolant systems on the crane's, like several people here have mentioned. The pickups had the same hookups, and a set of short jumper hoses. Hooked up the hoses from the warm pickup to the crane and let it circulate. You could watch the temp gauge drop in the pickup when you hooked it up. After letting it circulate for a while, you had a pretty good chance of getting it going.

Back then everything used the old green coolant, no extended life stuff. If you were setting up a system today, you would have to see what you're pickup had for coolant.

We also had a dedicated propane heat/ burners, that had a small circulation pump built into it. Kind of like a smaller hot water heater, on a pressure washer. It used the same hookups that we had for the pickup. Fire up the propane and get the water circulating to warm it up.

 

[roachven7]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the ideas and input! Sounds like it can be done anyhow.... Crane operator, would the jumper hoses just always have coolant in them? Otherwise would there be a problem with air in the system? Anyone have any more details on the plumbing etc for this sort of set up? Like would I just put in two T junctions with a hydraulic quick coupler on each engines coolant hoses?

I will also look into that external heater pad my little portable 1600watt generator could run one of those no problem.

Why not build a wood fired engine heater? The Amish use them sometimes. It coulc be set several feet away from the dozer, then dump the coals out once it starts, and stash it on the dozer, no hoses to unhook, no mixing of different coolants, no blocks cracking if you set it up right.

Delmer, can you elaborate on this idea? Are you talking about just putting coals under the engine or actually having sort of a woodstove set up under there? I have heard of people starting fires under diesel engines but that sounds a little sketchy to me.

 

[Delmer]

The ones they use resemble a mini stove with a chimney to the outside, for a stationary engine, hooked up with two heater hoses just like a "circulating" tank type heater. Those tank heaters imply there is a pump, there isn't unless you're talking $$$ ones for hospital generators or something. They circulate only if you mount them lower than the engine and slope the hoses correctly. You want to do the same thing, just use wood to heat the tank instead of electricity. A typical tank heater is 1500watts or about 5000 btu/hr, not hard to match that with the heat from a bucket of coals. Assuming you have a fire going somewhere, that will work faster than the toyota which is cold to start with.

Keep it simple, a small water container exposed to a fire box with a small chimney to get some draft for the fire. If you use coiled tubing, keep it short and 3/4" diameter. Some JD's have a 1 1/2" or so plug for a block heater, if you have that, you can make or have made an adapter that will let you hookup one 2-3' piece of radiator hose to slope down to a 1' section of pipe, stick the pipe into a bucket of coals with some air flow and the coolant will circulate up and back in the one hose.

 

[92U 3406]

What about a small generator and a small diesel fired air heater? Not sure what kind of time constraints you have to get the machine running but usually 30 minutes of it aimed at the intake manifold/side of the engine gets the majority of our stuff up and running provided we can get decent cranking speed out of it.

 

[Welder Dave]

You can get a propane heater that doesn't need a generator or just use a weed burner torch stuck in a short piece of pipe 3 or 4' long. Some guys don't use a pipe but with a pipe you have the flame contained so just heat comes out. Just have to make sure you don't have too much heat where you start melting things.

 

[SchuLace]

Espar hydronic would work and be simple.

 

[JimP]

Flame engineering offers propane fired hot air preheaters. See https://flameengineering.com/collections/engine-preheaters

 

[crane operator]

The coupler's were a permanent mount, no troubles with air. Typically the hoses are just plumbed in like the "heater" hoses lines are. You want to be circulating the warm water between the motors.

I've started a lot of equipment by throwing a tarp over top of them, and putting a propane or diesel fired "torpedo" heater in there. After about a hour they will usually go.

I guess I'm probably less concerned about you starting the dozer, than if its really going to work that well as a snow pushing machine. I've never found steel tracks on frozen ground to be great, and not being able to stack like you could with a loader is going to be a problem. After you push the road once and it refreezes hard, you're going to have a real tough time pushing that bank back.

Honestly a loader tractor with chains and a big snow blower would be much better for moving snow. The dozer wouldn't be so bad if you have a really flat road. Side slopes are no fun at all.

 

[Jonas302]

As far as cracking heads from the fast heat change no reason you couldn't put a ball valve to restrict the flow to warm it up gently also means its at home the pickup doesnt need to be so hot when you hook up

The advantage of a torpedo heater and a few tarps is the oil pan and transmission fuel ect can get warmed up too

There are actually a ton of innovative ways this dozer could be heated

Personally I would use the dozer to fix up the logging road and get a plow pickup to plow the snow but that might not be a possibility

 

[redneckracin]

I'll vote for NOT using the dozer to plow snow. I don't know how fast that dozer can tram, but I'll bet that it can move a lot faster sideways on steel tracks on the ice than it can forward. Now you could cork it (I think that's what the Canadians called it) by welding picks or short bars on top of the grousers.