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caterpillar 3056e no starts

Discussion in 'Screen/Wash Plants' started by rmllarue91, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Well-Known Member

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    Hey hef I'm having a fuel issue on a 3056e it's in a mccloskey trommel screen once fuel system is bleed and a little ether it's good to go but it's a pain to bleed it's not low on power doesn't run hot. we changed rubber fuel lines and lift pump and lots of filters. It has a ball valve fuel shut off that we have been turning off thinking it was draining back doesnt really help. They installed electric fuel pump that helps bleed it faster but even if you let it run 5 mins before cranking it won't start with out ether and bleeding it starts normal if it doesn't sit long any suggestions welcome
     
  2. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

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    Owner, Lanway Tractor Company
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    Next time buy a Deere? :tong
     
  3. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks lantrax how much do you normally charge for that kind of diagnosis? Lol yeah john deere does make a simple easy to work on engines but where is the fun in that ? BTW So are morookas animal powered? Or maybe cummins ? Deutz? Kohler?
     
  4. lantraxco

    lantraxco Senior Member

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    Sorry, sometimes I just can't help myself. Most of my advice is free, that way what the customer gets is worth what they paid for it, yeah?

    You name it Morooka has used it, Several Cats, some Cummins, Hino, Mitsubishi, Kubota, Isuzu, komatsu and the few I built in the States actually are Deere powered, lol.

    The 3056e is a Perkapillar, no?
     
  5. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Well-Known Member

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    Haha I lIke the advice. I think the morookas would be a sweet little rental nitch in my neck of the woods. But I ain't got no money and i don't like dealing with customers so..... maybe I just want one for fun. Great for transporting bodies though the woods, taking garbage out or moving hay bails. Yeah its a perkapilliar like a computer controlled carburetor :( let's take old tried and true and slap a whole bunch of electronic parts we have laying around on it. I like old school or new school not both. But anyways I'm thinking oh boy maybe I got air in fuel and when it sits it just separating and leaving a air pocket? But why is it so hard to bleed this pos? Old school 3406 if it's bleed good pops right off take newer c series like a 9 or 15 bleed good pops right off. 3408 two dry filters it starts wait for it to die. Crank about 15 secs and good to go these perkapilliars bleed your brains out and they still a pain.
     
  6. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    OK so first things first. Can you tell us the history of the problem. Has it always been there? Did it suddenly happen? Did it happen following some repairs?

    AND
    ↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
     
  7. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Well-Known Member

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    S/n- 35601888 about a year ago they bought it and supposedly it was starting good. For few days. Then it wouldn't start one morning. Had good supply of transfer fuel. Seller sends cat up to change injection pump. Now I didn't know this till months later but cat tech started it on either and said that was normal after having fuel system open. On and off over last year they ask me to work on it but never give me enough time to really get into a diagnosis just change a part and leave kind of deal. According to operate every day since pump was changed it needs ether in the am. But now it's much worse won't start with out bleedin supply to injection pump bedding injectors and ether.
     
  8. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    If it needs bleeding every morning then you have to assume an air leak or check valve problem somewhere. Check all the fuel line connections, the lift pump lid gasket and the fuel filter to filter head seal.

    Needing ether to start is a different matter however. Has anyone looked at it with ET for fault codes? Maybe recheck the timing. Does it have much blowby?

    These injection pumps should not be run dry. If it has a history of being cranked without fuel in the pump it may be damaged.
     
  9. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Well-Known Member

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    Hello cmark you were right not starting seems to not be fuel related. After going though the whole fuel system we still seem to have air in fuel but it doesn't seem to be enough to affect. The injection pump is still under warranty for about a week so customer had our local cat dealer that originally installed the pump take over. Two techs about half a day went though it with fine tooth comb. They found resistance low on a wire between ecm and pump. I changed wiring harness and it started good I let it run fir 15 mins. Remove my fuel sight gauge and installed the new water separater housing. Wouldn't start. After I bleed fuel to injection pump( straight fuel no air. Then pumped a bunch more. Bleed all injectors did have some air but still wouldn't start. 2 sniffs of either and it started. But I was get a lil smoke while cranking witch I never had before whole cranking. Later in the day I restarted and seem to crank for a while maybe 10 seconds but it started smooth not on one cylinder or chugging. Will know more monday. Thanks for your comments seems I either jump around to much or get stuck on one thing like the air in return fuel line. Is there something in the et I'm missing where you can watch ecm fire the injection pump? Like watching the milliseconds a electronic injector is get power?
     
  10. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Well-Known Member

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    Update still doesn't start right. Local cat dealer changed injection pump. Still starts hard ( cranks no smoke not trying to fire then for what ever reason starts ) it will try to fire or run on ether for short bursts. I think ecm is not sending correct signals but cat dealer doesn't think it's the ecm. Man what a pain in the $$ book.
     
  11. partsandservice

    partsandservice Senior Member

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    This is a Bosch vp30 if I recall. A vp30 pump only needs a power supply and ground to start, but it will only idle. A pulse signal is required for throttle control. You can start a vp30 without the ECM , I have a test rig made out of an old harness to eliminate ECM wiring issues in no start conditions. Make sure the banjo bolt for the return line at pump is an orfice type. If the fuel system is requiring prime each time then I would say the problem is not electrical, no mention of fault codes. I have only dealt with a couple of the 3056e engines , but heaps of the teir 2 cummins which has the same injection pump. I have had some I never did find where the leak back was. I installed a fuel check valve just prior to the lift pump as a temporary fix and never got called back. Cheap and effective.
     
  12. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Well-Known Member

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    This little thing still has trouble. But if it 70 degrees plus and block heater is plugged it will pop right off. If it's not plugged in it won't start with out ether. When I get back to it I'm going to take old harness and put power and ground to injection pump and also I have some check valves for fuel this one is odd. Cat had 2 pretty sharp techs up. I worked on it and also a mccloskey tech. 95 percent of fuel system has been changed at least once. And almost every test we could come up with. I'm sure its fixable but it might take a day or two with no interruptions
     
  13. koecon

    koecon Well-Known Member

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    What is the cranking speed when it won't start? Does it have an intake air heater? Is it
    working? Not sure you've said if there are any fault codes?
    If it starts good at 70 degrees with the block heater then the problem sounds like it's not fuel related! Sounds a bit like low compression, have you cut an oil filter open to see what's in it or taken an oil sample?