-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
Cat or ingersollrand rollers
- Thread starter mxsledder
- Start date
surfer-joe
Senior Member
I've had plenty of trouble with IR rollers and compactors, but one could say they were early models. I remember when Cat took over the compactor division of CMI, which had just purchased Raygo. Oh MY!!!!!
Anyway, Cat will get you much better after purchase service. The Cat will likely cost you more up front. Parts availability is better from Cat.
My problems with IR mostly involved the drum vibration components, a problem I never had with Cats.
Good luck!
Anyway, Cat will get you much better after purchase service. The Cat will likely cost you more up front. Parts availability is better from Cat.
My problems with IR mostly involved the drum vibration components, a problem I never had with Cats.
Good luck!
digger242j
Administrator
Which makes it doubly important that they don't cost you money...
CM1995
Administrator
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2007
- Messages
- 13,395
- Location
- Alabama
- Occupation
- Running what I brung and taking what I win
I have to disagree that rollers don't make you money. If you can't compact your lifts to spec's your sunk, if that ditch line settles in the street you have a call back, if the house pad settles due to inadequate compaction - your in the court room. You can move all the earth in the world quickly but if it is not compacted correctly on the fill side, it means nothing.
I have a Cat CS 533E that has had a few problems - nothing major. Mostly hyrdaulic leaks and control valve failures - all under 1k hours. The IR's seem to hit harder but I don't have alot of experience with the longevity of the machine. The 533E is a good size roller that will keep up with 2 25 ton artics and a D5N on the fill side with no problem.
If the trucks are larger and/or more - then you may want to look into a larger roller like a CS553 or CS 563E. IMO - don't get too hung up over a backfill blade on the roller - they are really only good for back dragging and not intended for spreading fill. If you really want production on a large earth moving project - then invest in an 815. They are -holly crap - expensive but the production rate climbs and you don't have to have a dozer spreading the fill. One less operator and one less machine. Like all equipment decisions it depends on cash flow and project size. And by saying that I would love to have an 815 in the fleet one day but right now the budget just won't allow it.
I hope this mindless dribble helps.
I know what you are saying, but I believe that experience comes into play alot more than the specs on a roller. I don't care if you have a Cat, IR, Bomag or a old ass Raygo. If you don't have employees that understand compaction, then you are gonna have problems no matter what.
RonG
Charter Member
Most of the roller drivers I see just drive over the piles to make them shiny,you mean there's more???Ron G
Mack
Active Member
Best rollers we ever had were Dynapacs<sp>. The Cat's had eltric problems and the IR's were just a peice of crap.
surfer-joe
Senior Member
"Best rollers we ever had were Dynapacs"
That's a name I'd wished I didn't have to remember. I fought Dynapac equipment for years, right up to and after they got bought out. In New Jersey we had 25 or 30 of the dern things working on the dam and were lucky if even half of them would run on any given shift.
They had a lot of problems, from the Cat 3208 boat-anchor engines, to the less than robust controls, to the vibratory mechanisms being very unforgiving about oil changes and oil types. I used to keep a dozen or so rubber mounts for the drum assemblies in my pickup so when one broke, we always had a spare or two handy to install, which was often.
We found that the vibration compartment bearings didn't like going past 100 hours of operation, which meant the oil needed to be changed every week. It had to be an excellent quality 85W140 gear oil, anything less quickly burned up or failed, causing the bearings to burn out.
Controls busted almost as fast as we replaced them, particularly the forward-reverse and vibration controls and linkages. The engines had constant fuel system problems with busted or stuck check valves and fuel transfer pump problems. Always lots of fuel leakage.
Center pins and bearings went fast and weren't easy to change, tho the guys got pretty good at it as many as they repaired.
To be honest, many of these compactors were rentals from various places and had not experienced very good maintenance. I took to servicing the drums as soon as they hit the job and staved off some trouble that way. Even sent some back as we found trouble in the form of burnt bearings and debris as soon as we opened the drain plugs. I also sampled the housings every oil change and that kept us from burning up some, well, to the extent that all we had to replace were the bearings and seals, not the shafts and vibrators.
The dealer in New Jersey and I worked out an arrangement so that we could get parts after hours. I'd call a guy at home from their parts department with an order, he'd go in and pull the parts while our parts runner was headed to the store. Our runner was usually picking up stuff at the dealer three times a day. If the dealer didn't have the parts we needed, he would call the factory which was not far away. We picked up parts there too.
When Dynapac made the transition from the former ownership to the new, everything was in flux and parts were hard to get. The factory in Jersey was shut down for a while as things got sorted out. We bought bearings and seals from bearing houses, or anywhere else we could find them using bearing cross-over manuals. Cat engine parts we bought from Foley Tractor or Giles & Ransome. We could get some Morse cables from the bearing houses though not always the correct one. But a longer one would work OK. Some other parts were hard to get, especially hydraulic pumps and drive motors.
I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for all the vibratory compactors ever built, but I admit they do perform very well when they run. rino1494 has a good point about operator experience on a vibratory. CM1995 has a good point about static rollers like an 815 or 825. These will compact a lot faster over larger areas, and they are much more robust and will handle a wider range of materials. But, when it comes time to change out the feet and cleaner bars, hang on to your checkbook, you will need a crying towel too.
Oh, going back to mxsledder's original question. The 66" size works fine for most medium size on down jobs. It will handle road jobs and parking lots or backfills around footing and curbs. It trailers well too. If you are into larger projects, the 84" is the size you want. It's heavier besides being wider, and give you more thump in the dirt. It is harder to maneuver tho in tight places. It's not as easy to transport with some being over 104" wide with all the motors and guards sticking out.
If you get a smooth drum, and need something that will do a little more, you can get what's called an "Elliot Grid," which is kind of a sheep's foot affair that wraps around the smooth drum and is drawn up tight by clamping bolts.
Good Luck!
That's a name I'd wished I didn't have to remember. I fought Dynapac equipment for years, right up to and after they got bought out. In New Jersey we had 25 or 30 of the dern things working on the dam and were lucky if even half of them would run on any given shift.
They had a lot of problems, from the Cat 3208 boat-anchor engines, to the less than robust controls, to the vibratory mechanisms being very unforgiving about oil changes and oil types. I used to keep a dozen or so rubber mounts for the drum assemblies in my pickup so when one broke, we always had a spare or two handy to install, which was often.
We found that the vibration compartment bearings didn't like going past 100 hours of operation, which meant the oil needed to be changed every week. It had to be an excellent quality 85W140 gear oil, anything less quickly burned up or failed, causing the bearings to burn out.
Controls busted almost as fast as we replaced them, particularly the forward-reverse and vibration controls and linkages. The engines had constant fuel system problems with busted or stuck check valves and fuel transfer pump problems. Always lots of fuel leakage.
Center pins and bearings went fast and weren't easy to change, tho the guys got pretty good at it as many as they repaired.
To be honest, many of these compactors were rentals from various places and had not experienced very good maintenance. I took to servicing the drums as soon as they hit the job and staved off some trouble that way. Even sent some back as we found trouble in the form of burnt bearings and debris as soon as we opened the drain plugs. I also sampled the housings every oil change and that kept us from burning up some, well, to the extent that all we had to replace were the bearings and seals, not the shafts and vibrators.
The dealer in New Jersey and I worked out an arrangement so that we could get parts after hours. I'd call a guy at home from their parts department with an order, he'd go in and pull the parts while our parts runner was headed to the store. Our runner was usually picking up stuff at the dealer three times a day. If the dealer didn't have the parts we needed, he would call the factory which was not far away. We picked up parts there too.
When Dynapac made the transition from the former ownership to the new, everything was in flux and parts were hard to get. The factory in Jersey was shut down for a while as things got sorted out. We bought bearings and seals from bearing houses, or anywhere else we could find them using bearing cross-over manuals. Cat engine parts we bought from Foley Tractor or Giles & Ransome. We could get some Morse cables from the bearing houses though not always the correct one. But a longer one would work OK. Some other parts were hard to get, especially hydraulic pumps and drive motors.
I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for all the vibratory compactors ever built, but I admit they do perform very well when they run. rino1494 has a good point about operator experience on a vibratory. CM1995 has a good point about static rollers like an 815 or 825. These will compact a lot faster over larger areas, and they are much more robust and will handle a wider range of materials. But, when it comes time to change out the feet and cleaner bars, hang on to your checkbook, you will need a crying towel too.
Oh, going back to mxsledder's original question. The 66" size works fine for most medium size on down jobs. It will handle road jobs and parking lots or backfills around footing and curbs. It trailers well too. If you are into larger projects, the 84" is the size you want. It's heavier besides being wider, and give you more thump in the dirt. It is harder to maneuver tho in tight places. It's not as easy to transport with some being over 104" wide with all the motors and guards sticking out.
If you get a smooth drum, and need something that will do a little more, you can get what's called an "Elliot Grid," which is kind of a sheep's foot affair that wraps around the smooth drum and is drawn up tight by clamping bolts.
Good Luck!
Old thread, but since I missedit first time, I will add this.
If you need to go up and down any slopes, you better get a Cat. They have twin pump drive, so both the drum and the wheels turn. Most others have power at both ends, but driven by one pump, they act like an open differential on a car. If one end looses traction, all the flow goes to the spinning end, and you just sit there.
Cat has a dedicated pump for each drive motor, so it is like having posi traction.
The Ingersoll Rand is a good roller if you are just on flat ground.
If you need to go up and down any slopes, you better get a Cat. They have twin pump drive, so both the drum and the wheels turn. Most others have power at both ends, but driven by one pump, they act like an open differential on a car. If one end looses traction, all the flow goes to the spinning end, and you just sit there.
Cat has a dedicated pump for each drive motor, so it is like having posi traction.
The Ingersoll Rand is a good roller if you are just on flat ground.
bell142
Active Member
Strickly my Opinion and application!!!!! I have 20 pieces of Cat equip., but my 2 rollers are No Frills Superpac. Ive got roughly 5000 hrs on each and the only parts ive changed have been batteries and 2 simple toggle switches that turn the vibration on. The initial purchase price allows me to buy basically 2 for one compared to the name brands. My cat salesman keeps telling me about the hard hitting ability of his product, but i cant and wont make work out financially. To me a roller is a dead cost, necessary evil, so purchase cost to me is more important than residual or resale value. In our soils, Knowlegde is the key to compaction more than Brand of roller.
Panhandler Bob
Well-Known Member
:my2c Flat ground IR will do, ANY kinda of slope CAT is the ticket. 15 yrs. doing landfills in PA. Ohio, NY. 3to 1 outside slopes, inside slopes on some cells 2 to 1 Cats 563 constantly climbed whatever was asked of them. They'll climb a tree if you have the cahonas to stay in the seat. IMHO :drinkup
:drinkupCAT or IR?
While CAT is probably the more favorite pick I personally think as far as poundin dirt, you just can't beat an IR(Volvo) roller. I will say IR has their problems with electrical bugs and sometimes swivel joints loosening up to fast.
If your buying a used roller I would go with a IR Pro-Pac series roller. That was back in the day when they really had the market on compaction. Since the last 8yrs they have declined somewhat quality on their rollers. I hear nothing but good stuff since Volvo bought IR out back in 07'. Some of the dealers we visited are really wanting to get their hands on these rollers since Volvo took over. I'm not sold on Volvo yet , but I think IR was just mass producing these rollers for awhile in the last ten years and Volvo is a more quality product and I'm sure they are not gonna let a piece of junk go out the door. I'm anxious to see what Volvo does with the Terra Firma series(IR) roller as far as making it more reliable cause they sure can pound the dirt like nobody else.
CAT is good piece of equipment but we've had alot of headaches getting replacement parts and seems their service parts(filters, breathers etc) seem way overpriced for what your paying for the equipment.
While CAT is probably the more favorite pick I personally think as far as poundin dirt, you just can't beat an IR(Volvo) roller. I will say IR has their problems with electrical bugs and sometimes swivel joints loosening up to fast.
If your buying a used roller I would go with a IR Pro-Pac series roller. That was back in the day when they really had the market on compaction. Since the last 8yrs they have declined somewhat quality on their rollers. I hear nothing but good stuff since Volvo bought IR out back in 07'. Some of the dealers we visited are really wanting to get their hands on these rollers since Volvo took over. I'm not sold on Volvo yet , but I think IR was just mass producing these rollers for awhile in the last ten years and Volvo is a more quality product and I'm sure they are not gonna let a piece of junk go out the door. I'm anxious to see what Volvo does with the Terra Firma series(IR) roller as far as making it more reliable cause they sure can pound the dirt like nobody else.
CAT is good piece of equipment but we've had alot of headaches getting replacement parts and seems their service parts(filters, breathers etc) seem way overpriced for what your paying for the equipment.
HEAVY386
Member
I`v worked for United rentals as a road mechanic for about 7 years and they always buy low price, we had dynapac witch was ok but had old cats that was the only thing for big hills, but for the money dynapac was a good unit very little problems if serviced reg.