Case 621 experts out there? I just bought a C model and hope it's not complete junk

[FastYZFR1]

Hi everyone, I just bought a 1999 621C it has 7700 hours and was used for logging and has some sort of log grapple on it. The pivot pins for the attachment are worn out center link has been broken and welded, Also the steering rams have play in the end bushings and pins and the upper center bushing on the center articulation is shot. Front wind shield and left side wind shield are broken along with both right and left door glasses.

I am curious if anyone can tell me what if any parts off a straight 621 will interchange? I have a buddy who has one that the trans has gone out on and been torn down for years. I know pretty much all the drive line and brakes won't interchange due to Clark vrs ZF but the pin on bucket, forks, and center link look like they will work, I also hope the glass will interchange and if I end up needing an engine I would think that that would work as well.

I know this loader has had the crap beat out of it but I got it cheap (I hope) $13,000 it has the above listed problems and a few more sorta suspected but found out for sure on the way home. It was WAY low on engine oil and hyd oil and had a new radiator installed, Hyd oil looks to be a few bad hoses, But the engine oil leak looked to be valve cover gasket, now I am pretty sure it's the head gasket since I could see oil coming from between the head and block surface once it was good and warm and the coolant got a bit hot and blew a hose I didn't know it was that hot cause the gauge didn't register one of the many draw backs to attempting to drive it home without knowing how it's going to preform.

Another issue of concern was that the trans temp shot up WAY hot and I drove it for a bit with it showing the gauge maxed out. I was only driving down the road and under no load really so I figured it couldn't be that hot and it was able to go 23 mph and no slip. I drove about 15 miles total of my planed 60 then decided I am better off getting hauled with the above issues. I hope that fluid filter and sending unit hopefully correct any trans issue. I can't see less than 5 miles of road travel causing fluid to overheat and it didn't seem that hot out of the filler hole so hopefully driving it another 10 didn't cause any damage.

I plan to use it for pushing snow and moving cars and some dirt at times in the summer. Most of the bushings are simple to replace/repair just $$$$ and the head gasket shouldn't be too bad, the engine runs good seemed to have decent power and didn't smoke or anything like that. Any suggestions or things to look for on it would be nice to know, my buddy with the 621 also has a 621B with over 20k hours on it and and he's barley done anything on it service wise unless it dosn't move anymore so I know they can take a beating. I like the auto shift option of the C model and the instruments and all that stuff are a bit nicer than the 621B and it has ride control and is air condition but I am sure all that stuff needs attention as well, I just hope I didn't over pay for a pile of junk. O and one last thing as if my grocery list isn't enough, the brakes seemed to really suck they stopped it when pushing hard but there was NO way it was going to come to an abrupt stop she just kinda slowed a bit faster when you really pushed hard.

 

[GaryHoff]

Sounds like you are going to be busy with some repairs on this old beast.

Most of the parts that cross would be from the 621 (with a ZF). The 621C cab and engine parts are not a direct cross. (I'm not saying that you cant make it work somehow)

The issue here is that you are trying to take from a very old 621, with the clark transmission. The 621 with the clark transmission is a sort of odd ball. Things got more consistent between the models after the ZF transmission. (lots of parts from the 621 (with the zf), 621B, and 621C cross directly)

The bucket and forks should be the same, as they should use the same quick attach.

Refer to the case parts website. Compare the parts that you are interested in, and see if they are the same part number or not. Even if they are not the same number, it may still work.

As for your engine, you may be able to find some cummins parts. All case engine part numbers that start with "J" can be crossed to cummins. Just replace the "J" with a "3", and that is your cummins number.

 

[GaryHoff]

Measure brakes as per picture.

Paper brakes : if X is less then 4mm. replace
Bronze brakes: if X is less than 3.5mm replace.

 

[FastYZFR1]

Thanks Gary,

I guess I will be pulling the wheels off and checking out the brakes once I get it home, I don't want to do more damage to the rotors if it's down to nothing. I assume to replace the pads you have to remove all the bolts on the backside and pull the hub from the axle when doing this dose the gear reduction cover on the outside have to be dismantled?

I think my very first order of bussiness is going to be looking at that center pins and seeing if the bushings can be replaced along with the pins to get the machine tight in the center again and pulling the cyl head to get it running right.

I looked at the parts and I don't think the cab glass interchanges between the older and newer 621's anyone know the best place to get a windsheild glass aside from case for a reasonable price?

Thanks for you help,
James

 

[GaryHoff]

I just get glass cut at a local glass shop. Usually its about 1/2 price vs the dealership. The only time you need glass from the dealership is if its a curved glass.

This is wet brakes, and all that will happen if it wears too far is you will loose all brakes eventually, and will fill your axle with hydraulic oil. Measure your brakes first, they may be ok. Remember that its hydraulic brakes, so weak brakes could mean just having air in it the lines.

To get to the brakes, (in short description) Remove the wheel, remove the wheel end cap, remove the lock pin, remove the outer nut, remove the backside bolts, remove the wheel end assembly. ****Don't loose the shim in the sun gear shaft*** Remove brakes. You might as well re-seal the brake piston while you are in there.

 

[FastYZFR1]

I removed the broken windows and also finished the task of pressure washing it, what fun tearing the cab apart and getting all the heater core and stuff clean. Things I have noticed are that it's leaking hydraulic oil from the brake accumulator valve, looks like one of the O rings on one of the plugs, Though I don't think that could be my low braking power issue since I have no brake pressure warning light, wondering if nitrogen charge might be low.

Also one of my Hydraulic oil cooler hoses is leaking oil. I am thinking to deal with both the leaks I will have to drain the hydraulic oil tank I read that it holds 40 gallons of oil? Also since I am going probably drain the oil from the tank now might be a good time to split the machine and replace the center pins and bearings since I will most likely have to disconnect some lines there as well. Any suggestions on that job I am thinking lots of large wooden blocks and some bottle jacks

 

[GaryHoff]

Yup, some large wooden blocks and bottle jacks should be ok to do the center pins and bushings. Chalk the wheels. You may want to remove the steering cylinders, remove the driveshaft and some hoses. Place the blocks near the articulation, on front and rear frame, they don't have to touch the frame, but should be close. Also put blocks at the rear, of the rear frame. Use you jacks to take the weight off the frame. Remove the center pins. Remove front wheel chalks. Then I usually just tug the front frame sideways just enough to access the bushings. Make sure your blocks stay in place. You could also tug the rear frame backwards, whichever you feel is easier. I have always done this kind of job in a shop, with a crane and lots of equipment to use. Since your probably working on gravel, it may be easier to tug the front frame, as the front frame balances better.

As always, use your common sense. Make sure you have enough blocking, and can do this on some solid ground.

Before you remove any brake lines or sensors you need to bleed the brakes down. Just turn the machine off and pump the brake pedal 40 times. This will bleed down the brake accumulators.

 

[FastYZFR1]

Thanks for that info Gary I wouldn't have thought about bleeding the brakes down, I think with that O ring leaking alot of the pressure bleeds off on it's own, but I Will pump them 40 times to B sure. I also think I am going to borrow my buddies service manual his is only up to the 621 B but that should be pretty much all the same stuff except for the electronics.

HI take it you have done a few of the Case loader center bearings or just on other machines? it looks like once you get enough room to access the bearing caps that the bearing itself should come out pretty easy, just wondering if I need a special puller or if I can just use the old pin and throw some weld on it and drive in from the back side and push the bearing out using that? I figure I will do this project on a cement slab and I have a 6000 lb forklift and 95xt skiddy to help adjust the halfs if need may be LOL shouldn't need them I hope.

I am WAY more optimistic on the loader, I think my major engine oil leak is from the side tappet cover gasket, Trans temp issue might be that I don't see a resistor plugged into the harness that the parts diagrams shows for trans temp senders or something along those lines (that one is still up in the air), I still haven't 100% put my finger on the engine overheating issue, but the air filter restriction sender wire was broken, there is no coolant temp sender (someone had tried using a thermostat type cheezy sunpro type gauge that was kicking around under the hood) and the low coolant sensor wasn't plugged in. The air filter dust bowel was filled to the top solid with dirt, I am sure the air filters are clogged almost soiled by the looks of that, and the fuel shutoff solenoid is missing and you have to push the lever by hand back for run and forward for kill with out the solenoid holding it back it might have worked forward a bit cutting off fuel somewhat.

Dose it really matter what's ran for hyd oil? I put 10 gallons of AW 68 in it and 6 gallons of 10w30 motor oil and to top it off on my drive home with it. I see the specs say it holds 40 some gallons I have no clue what was in it B4 I added but I am sure a mixture of whatever as well, I know some say Hy tran ultra which I plan to put in the trans since it has a sticker saying to use that. If I have to drain it all I almost want to start with new but that dosn't make sense till I get all the leaks and stuff figured out and I have a few other bad looking hoses non leaking that I really don't have the time or $ to replace them all just yet.

 

[GaryHoff]

I've done a few loader center bushings, (not specifically the C series though) They are all a similar process. I would just weld out the old bushings.

The only oils that I worry about being from the dealer is transmission oils. You don't want to mix that with anything but what your book calls for (should be hytran) The reasoning is the clutch disks are imbedded with hytran, and other oils could damage your clutch disks. As for your hydraulics, I wouldn't worry to much as to what is in there, as they are just gear pumps.

 

[FastYZFR1]

So now I am even more confused on the transmission oil, the loader has a sticker on it that says use Hytran, but the dealer told me 10w30 motor oil like the 621B says and I questioned him and he asked the service guys and they said 15W40 motor oil then he called Case tech support and they said 15w40 oil is what ZF wants. I think I am going to try to find the ZF info on the trans and call them myself and see what they suggest.

 

[GaryHoff]

The 621c, 721c, 821c, 921c called for 15w40 or hytran.

Now to help clarify what to use:

Do not use Hy-Tran Ultra, or Hy-Tran Ultra SSL, when ambient temperatures rise above 20 degrees C (86 degrees F).
In temperatures above 20 degrees C (86 degrees F) substitute Case Akcela No. 1 SAE 15W40

So in short, look at your ambient temp. If its over, 86F, then use 15w40. The reason they suggested that is because in the higher temps. hytran did not provide adequate lubrication to the upper bearings.

Where I am, we always just used hytran. Only a month or 2 of weather over 86F.
One last thing to note; if you are running 15w40, you will need to calibrate your transmission more often. I recommend at least at every oil change. Preferably more often.

 

[FastYZFR1]

I might as well just address this to Gary a few more hopefully simple questions How do you calibrate the transmission, and is there some magic to the settings on the instrument cluster? I have played with the switches that look like stacks of something with arrows pointing in between them but have NO clue what I am doing, sometimes I get a book with a wrench to light up other times code of a 000 series and so on. I got it all upset once till it wouldn't move or really do anything till I left it shut off for a bit and it reset it's self

Also do you know the pressures for nitrogen in the ride control and brakes ?

All in all the loader seems to work pretty good, I think I am going to wait till spring to do the center bearings, it has about 1/4" or less of visual movement between the front part and cab when you hit bumps and that's from view point of operating it in the cab , I am hoping charging the ride control will help with not banging it so much on bumps. Or should I do the bearings right away I do worry a lil if it gets much worse the bannging may make the hole more of an egg shape than perfect circle. From what the can tell looking at parts its 2 sets of tapper bearings on each pin. If I have someone else operate it and i watch the center, I seem to see when i watch it it looks to have more up and down play in the center than forward backward and that's only a 1/16 to 1/8" so hopefully that is not that god offel bad on the holes yet.

O my brakes make some really bad binding noises at slow speeds when turning sharp maybe it has something to do with the limited slip diffs, but seems worse if you had just used the brakes and it pulls bad to the left when you first apply the brakes But as of right now I don't even want to think about going there just yet LOL it still stops I am hoping that changing the planatary and diff oils with a good lsd 80w90 oil will help

Thanks for all your help Gary

 

[GaryHoff]

Clutch calibration using dash

******Park brake needs to be properly adjusted, any machine movement will fail the calibration********

1.Start engine.
2.Press the program/reset switch to program.
3.Up count to location 007 – Transmission Oil Temperature in ° C.
4.Place the program/reset switch in the center position.
5.Observe transmission oil temp.
6.Stall out the transmission until the oil temperature reaches 120° C. Place the transmission in neutral, increase and decrease engine speed for 30 seconds. Stall the transmission again. The transmission oil temperature must maintain 120° C or higher to complete the calibration process.
7.Run engine at low idle with the transmission in neutral.
8.Apply the park brake.
9.Calibrate the clutches with the steps below:

A.Place the transmission in the manual shift mode and the gear selector in 3rd gear neutral.
B.Press the program/reset switch to the program position.
C.Up count to location 011.
D.Put the program/reset switch in the center position.
E.Up count until the display reads 02.
F.Code 2 00 00 will begin to flash in the display center.
G.After one second, the Clutch Calibration Main Code status is displayed in the 3rd and 4th spaces (2 XX 00, the XX represents the 3rd and 4th spaces). (See the main code and sub code charts on the next page.)
H.The Clutch Calibration Sub Code status is displayed in the 1st and 2nd spaces (2 00 YY, the YY represents the 1st and 2nd spaces).
I.During clutch calibration, the Clutch Calibration Main Code changes from 01 to 07 as the process is completed. Code 07 indicates that the calibration process is complete and the Information Center holds at the 2 07 00 code.
J.If any of the clutch calibration parameters are incorrect a fault occurs. The display center stops flashing and displays a code in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th spaces.
K.When a fault occurs, use the calibration code displayed to diagnose the problem. Calibration Code: 2 XX YY where XX is the main code and YY is the sub code.
L.After completing the Clutch Calibration Procedure, turn machine OFF for 15 seconds. This sets the calibration in the controller.

 

[GaryHoff]

Main Code Description
00 Clutch Calibration was not initiated because one of the
requirements was not meant
01 Adjusting 1st gear
02 Adjusting 2nd gear
03 Adjusting 3rd gear
04 Adjusting 4th gear
05 Adjusting Forward gear
06 Adjusting Reverse gear
07 Clutch Calibration completed
08 Operator aborted Calibration procedure
09 Aborted while adjusting 1st gear
10 Aborted while adjusting 2nd gear
11 Aborted while adjusting 3rd gear
12 Aborted while adjusting 4th gear
13 Aborted while adjusting Forward gear
14 Aborted while adjusting Reverse gear
Clutch Calibration Sub Codes
Clutch Calibration
Sub Code Description
01 Fault present
02 Shift Lever not in neutral
03 Park brake not applied
04 Output speed is not 0 KPH/MPH
05 Low Transmission oil temp
06 High Transmission oil temp
07 Low engine RPM
08 High Engine RPM
00 Default
Example Clutch Calibration Code: 2 09 04
Definition: 2 – Calibration started
09 - Aborted while adjusting 1st gear
04 - Output speed is not 0 KPH/MPH