Case 580CK oil questions

[Phil]

I got up at 4:30 this morning and started thinking about it. ATCOEQUIP would even agree it's pretty early even for me.

"The quick connect on the outlet hose coming from the backhoe valve came off."

That would do it, better than the collapsed pressure hose idea I was considering. I was even thinking maybe it's really a gas engine here, even though you mentioned a shut-off cable, and have one of the 2 coil power leads defective.

The relay above the starter as I mentioned before, is only for the manifold heater. It should have one heavy lead, maybe a #6 wire, from the starter positive terminal to one of the relay's large terminals. The other large terminal on the relay is connected with the same gauge of wire to the heater. The relay needs to grounded, by bolting it to the engine block as Case does with 2- 1/4" bolts. There is a spot for it. The only other lead needed is a #14 wire powered from the push button switch, located near the starter switch, to activate it. It appears some of your existing wiring is incorrect.

The clicking may be this relay somehow activated by the 'start' terminal on the starter switch. This is not desirable, and if used, the heater should only be on before cranking.

These heaters are quite robust and usually still in working condition. I believe 1 minute is the maximum time you should have this on before attempting to start. I find that 30 seconds is just right and allows starting(without ether of course), to a lower temperature. I have never had a 188 diesel start at a temperature lower than about 32 deg F , unless plugged in or using ether. The manifold heater allows easier starting down to this temperature. Phil

 

[willie59]

Dang Phil, 4:30! Did ya go outside and kick the chickens awake?

That's a pretty good description of the glow plugs operation.

 

[skidoomanott]

manual

I appreciate the help, any chance I can get a copy of the service manual for my backh oe. I think it would be easier if I had a copy in front of me. It looks like I am going to have to rewire the whole thing as there are a lot of components that are not connected. The hours gauge, oil pressure light, temp. gauge, amp meter are all not connected. I am willing to buy a manual but have not found one that is inexpensive. Thanks

 

[Phil]

Smokey1,
I forgot to 'give credit where credit is due'. You got us all thinking about the hydraulic pump, in your post. I think ATCOEQUIP knew where the problem was too.

ATCOEQUIP, no chickens here, gets expensive to feed them over winter, but if I was living in the beautiful state of Tennessee, I'd have to get some to wake me."That's a pretty good description of the glow plugs operation". Dang your southern hospitality. Of all the places I've travelled, the middle U.S. remains my favourite.

Skidoo,
There's nothing like having the hard copy service manual. I paid $45 new for mine in 1979. I believe it shows individual wires and I will try and post a better schematic than CNH shows before I go on holidays shortly.

The hour meter probably requires a new cable, quite common. These are reasonable from Case. Check that your camshaft is rotating the cable drive gear with engine running and the hour meter works when you spin the hub that the cable drives.You are fortunate that the 580CK has such an easy dash to work on.

I believe the temperature gauge requires 12 volts on one side (with ignition switch on) and the temp sensor giving a varying resistance load, on the other side. Same with oil pressure light except that the oil pressure sensor is either 'on or off' and grounds the bulb to make it work. Phil

 

[skidoomanott]

wiring

Any chance of getting the part names on the diagram you posted? Thanks.

 

[Phil]

Skidoo,
You can go on CNH and view the part numbers and descriptions under the drawings. Will PM you. Phil

 

[skidoomanott]

thanks

That is a big help, now to find out the serial number of my backhoe? I am currently taking the solenoid apart as the casing was cracked and it is all rusted inside. That is where my problem was(clicking noise) The relay for the manifold was also clicking so I am replacing that one with one off a f-150 truck, same idea. I hope to be able how to get the manifold heater working as I plan on using the backhoe during the winter. The block heater works but want to ensure it will start in cold weather. The wiring on this machine is a mess but am sure I will get it all figured out. BTW, found the gear on the block for the hour meter. I will need to find a cable for that. Thanks everyone for all the help.

 

[Phil]

Skidoo,
Serial # locations are shown on CNH too, page 002 for your machine. I've never had much luck with taking solenoids apart and cleaning them unless on larger units, despite their simplicity. These are cheap to buy at a starter rebuilder. If you have a torque converter drive on your machine, you will have a gasket on your starter to seal against the torque tube.

The stock block heater is 400W, I think, and very slow. Figure on 3-4 hours as a minimum, to have it plugged in, and the machine must be out of the wind. A heater hose type heater works very well if plumbed in properly. A propane wand placed under the oil pan is good to have for emergency use. I wouldn't count on your manifold heater, it's just a spring and fall aid. You need to get the coolant warm. Phil

 

[skidoomanott]

temp gauge

We connected a mechanical temp gauge to what looks like a bypass hose coming from the top of the rad to a waterjacket. The gauge did not move up in temp. Wondering how long the backhoe would have to be running for the temp to rise. The engine block does not even seem to be getting hot. There was a mechanical gauge in the dash prior but the hose was not there. Thanks

 

[skidoomanott]

oil flowing from dipstick

Well I finally put the old girl to work and encountered a problem. The temperature never went up on the gauge but the rad is now empty and the oil dipstick shows it is way past full. With the engine running, the oil gushes out the top of the dipstick. With a gas engine having a blown head gasket, you can smell when there is anti freeze in the oil. This does not appear to be the issue but is strange that the rad is empty and the oil pan is over full?

 

[Phil]

Skidoo, what have you gotten yourself into.

Regarding your mechanical temp gauge sender, I'm not sure exactly where you plumbed it, but I think the last one I installed by removing the old electrical sender unit. It's located in the right rear corner of the cylinder head. I installed the new sender with the pipe thread adapter supplied with the kit.

As your engine is warming up, the radiator should remain cold, until the thermostat opens. Thermostat failure is not uncommon and I use a Napa 33008S, 180 degree, as a replacement. You may have a defective thermostat.

Regarding your last post, I would pull the drain plug on the engine oil pan and check for coolant in the bottom. Some will always separate out or never get a chance to mix. There are other sources that could leak fluid into the engine, such as the fuel injection pump, power steering pump, and the torque tube, if a torque converter model.

It's best to change your oil and filter. Keep a close eye on the oil level, checking often for coolant in the oil, especially before starting cold. If diesel fuel is leaking in the engine oil, the oil will start to smell. Check if the steering pump reservoir needs refilling often.

If the oil level in the engine gets to high, additional turbulence is created, hence your dipstick oil leak.

You probably drained some coolant out to install the sender, if so it's very easy to get an air lock in a coolant system after refilling . A heater will take time to purge itself of air sometimes and most coolant systems require monitoring after refilling unless the same amount goes back in that came out.

Although it doesn't sound good, it may not be coolant that is the problem. Phil

 

[skidoomanott]

oil

How much antifreeze should I have used if it was empty as remember we put a new rad in.

 

[skidoomanott]

oil

Power steering fluid level did not change, only the rad fluid level changed. The temp gauge was installed on the right hand side, right next to what I think is the heater shut off valve. Like I said earlier, the temp gauge never did move up when running the backhoe.

 

[skidoomanott]

temp gauge location

Here is where we installed the temp gauge.

 

[skidoomanott]

oil

Well I drained the oil pan and it is safe to say that it is full of antifreeze. Other than a blown head gasket, is there anything else that can cause this? I have never worked on a diesel engine but am willing to tackle the blown head gasket. Any help finding a service manual as I will need detailed information on how to go about this? I have seen sites that offer downloadable manuals, anyone ever used these? Appreciate all the help. Thanks

 

[Phil]

Skidoo,
The down loadable service manuals are okay from what I have heard. I've heard the picture quality is better in some than in others. It's the cheapest way to get the info, especially if you can't wait for a bargain on the book itself.

It's hopeful you haven't damaged the engine bearings from the coolant. Several places to leak coolant, liner seals, liner pinholes, bad head gasket, cracked cylinder head, and cylinder head frost plugs. There is an oil gallery going up into the 188 cylinder head at the rear, but more likely to have oil going into the coolant than the other way. You can check for some of these leaks by pressurizing the rad with about 10 psi and looking up into the engine crankcase after removing the oil pan, also taking the valve cover off. Leaking liner seals is a common problem.

I have seen other engines plumbed that way for a temperature sensor and heater line, and they did work. Check that coolant is flowing through the heater lines, and the valve is not shut. Check for an air lock when filling by loosening the temp sender. Diesels seem to warm up slow. Phil

 

[skidoomanott]

580ck

Anyone able to point me to a link to download the service manual or buy it on cd? Thanks

 

[wrecd]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Case-580C-CK-Lo...ItemQQptZBI_Books_Manuals?hash=item2a00149493

http://cgi.ebay.com/Case-Tractor-58...ItemQQptZBI_Books_Manuals?hash=item35a289c942

are a couple on ebay, there are a few more cd versions as well.

i bought a cd version for my 580e and it was ok. the larger diagrams and pictures were too low rez to read the legends, pretty much making them useless. in my experience the cd service manual is worth $1x dollars.

 

[Tinkerer]

I have the genuine Case Service manual for my 680C . It is well worth the $100.00 that they are sold for. If the CD is just the actual service manual that someone has scanned and put on a CD I don't see how it could possibly give a detailed view of the diagrams. That is just my opinion about the CD. I also have the Genuine Case Parts book for my machine. That book is worth twice as much the service manual. Because the parts breakdown is in great detail for the arrangement of every part and unit in the machine. An example I recently had of why I place a higher value on the parts book was when I had the four speed transmission completely disassembled. Although I had photos of the gear arrangement before the disassembly , I found that one of the synchronizers can be installed backwards and still look as if it was correct. By looking at the parts book it not only had the synchronizer in the correct position but it was partially cross sectioned to show which way the heavy side of the syncro. was installed. Without that detailed view I would had a 50/50 chance of getting the the gear assembly correct.

 

[DiggerDriver]

580CK service manual here for free.

Link edited out. See post #49 for the reason.