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Case 580ck Not Wanting To Start

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by Mike.580ck, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. Mike.580ck

    Mike.580ck Well-Known Member

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    ok for all you case 580 gurus out there , i have recently bought a 1974 Case 580 c-ck not sure which because its marked with both but anyways it has the case 188 diesel engine, when i got it the head was off and had been completely re done , so i put it all back together also the injection pump has been completely rebuilt, i took the pump off and checked everything out because the guy said it wasnt pumping , i got it back in and the injection pump drive shaft is in correct time as is the pump drive gear being lined up perfect dot to pointer, its getting fuel to the injectors and ive tried with the intake heater and engine block heater on, im stumped, it just cranks and cranks and cranks and nothing it doesnt even seem to want to fire off im not a diesel mechanic so i dont know what to do next , im going to buy new fuel filters for it in the morning, any ideas ?, any help would be greatly appreciated Thanks in advance
     
  2. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    Have you checked compression? Did you think to pour some diesel fuel in the cylinders while the head was off to check for stuck/broke rings?

    You also might pull the injectors, turn the lines around so the injectors are out away from the engine and look at the spray pattern of your injectors. Be careful not to touch the injectors while the engine is spinning, fuel injected into the body leads to amputation.
     
  3. gusbratz

    gusbratz Well-Known Member

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    If the lines were all empty it takes a lot of crankeing to get all the air out. The Pump is only delivering a tiny little drop of fuel to each line per revolution. I am assumeing you cracked open the return line fitting where it comes from the pump. If you see good fuel flowing throught that you know fuel is going through the filters and through the pump. A full tank of fuel always helps too when priming.
     
  4. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    Are you sure the injection pump timing is correct ? It could be off 180°. One of the beat ways to determine if #1 cylinder is on TDC is to remove the engine valve cover. Then turn the crankshaft until the timing marks line up. Both the intake and exhaust valves must be closed on #1 and you should be able to wiggle them up and down if the backlash is set correctly.
     
  5. Mike.580ck

    Mike.580ck Well-Known Member

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    i took the pump off and one of the pump drive shaft seals was installed wrong so i put new seals on correctly and DOUBLE and Triple checked that the dots were lined up, i put all new fuel and hydraulic filters on today and i am getting Plenty of fuel to the pump but with the injector lines off and cranking it over im barely getting a dribble of fuel out of them so it seems to be a problem with the pump but im not sure what it is , the guy i got it from had it rebuilt right before i purchased it and it looks like new inside and out and everything seems to be lined up correctly so im stumped
     
  6. Mike.580ck

    Mike.580ck Well-Known Member

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    oh and i did pour some fuel into the cylinders when the head was off and all the rings held the fluid, im also kind of curious how much fuel does it for a lack of better words spit out each time the pump hits each injector? a little bit or a big squirt , so would cranking for a good three or four mins not get the pump primed up ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  7. gusbratz

    gusbratz Well-Known Member

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    if you are absolutely positive that it is not pumping fuel it may be time do download or buy a pump rebuild manual and take the pump apart and make sure they put it together right.or take it back to them and ask them to put it on a pump test stand and check it out. there are a coupe parts inside the pump that say CC on one side and CCW on the other. you have to have them faceing the right way for the direction of rotation on your application. the pump shop should have caught that they were right when they put it on a test statnd after they rebuilt it.
     
  8. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    Let the starter cool some between tries, to be sure you do not burn it up.:stirthepot

    Mine is a real pain to get primed. I think my fuel line from the tank may be partially clogged because it will quit if the tank is down to 1/4 tank.
    I have to start at the line from the tank loosening fitting(s) and work fluid up filling each filter etc. Mine has that little manual pump that works only half fast.
    After 20 minutes and blisters on my fingers I get the filters full then have to loosen other fittings working towards the injector pump.
    Lastly I loosen that injector bleed valve and turn the engine over to squirt fuel all over myself.
    Once my belly is covered with diesel fuel twice, I tighten the bleed fitting and it cranks.

    Does yours have the 12V solenoid on the pump? If so make sure this is getting 12V.
    I think mine clicks quietly when the key is turned on.

    From reading your notes, you might have to get an injector mechanic out to look at your problem. (Preferrably whoever rebuilt the pump)

    If I get actual fuel/pressure to the pump and still no luck I would need some help.
    Others on this forum work on their own, but cleanliness and special tools make this hard for a "barn mechanic" like myself.
     
  9. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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  10. Mike.580ck

    Mike.580ck Well-Known Member

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    yea, i figured out a few things and Thepumpguysc Is awesome very smart and knows his stuff to the T im impressed and very Grateful , How do you delete threads on here so i can delete my other one ?
     
  11. Mike.580ck

    Mike.580ck Well-Known Member

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    I actually Got The Ole Case Running , i did some more trouble shooting and im not sure if the system has to have that return flow to work or what but my return line from the last injector up to the tank was plugged , some how the po had rubbed a hole in that steel line and they had actually tried to Weld a hole in a piece of 1/4 inch steel line , the stuffs cheap buy new i would think but anyhow i replaced that line and started cranking it over , a little shot of ether and it fired right up, now on to fixing hydraulic leaks and hoses, a few cylinders need rebuilt to , Thanks to Everyone that helped with my questions im sure ill have more
     
  12. trevor b

    trevor b Well-Known Member

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    way to go trevor b
     
  13. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    THATS WHY I told you to remove the topcover or the return fitting and try to start the engine.[clogged return line]
    IF you cant get fuel OUT, you cant get fuel IN..
    Glad you got her fixed..
     
  14. Mike.580ck

    Mike.580ck Well-Known Member

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    i dont mean to sound dumb, but my memory isnt the greatest i mean once i do something i never forget it , but i have all the information on my computer at home and thats where i read everything on the forum here, and then i go to my shop where the backhoe is at and work on it so some of the information gets lost in my head between if that makes sense , i Thank you so much for the help i wouldnt have been able to do it without you Thepumpguysc i owe you, and i think you had mentioned it before , hypothetically speaking if i sent my pump to you to have it completely over hauled what would you charge, i did stop in the turbo shop thats local here and they said it is 600-700 dollars to do a rebuild that sounds kinda high to me
     
  15. Mike.580ck

    Mike.580ck Well-Known Member

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    i forgot , like i said i have a bad memory some times , i got all the cooling system hooked up and radiator put in new hoses and new antifreeze , when i put the head on there is the gasket that goes on the front of the head between the head and front engine cover which houses all the gears and the water pump bolts up to, i was assembling the top end of the engine and the front cover was already installed well i racked my brain for half a day probably trying to get that gasket in because it didnt just slide right in, i finally loosened all the bolts and was able to pry it back very gently to slide the gasket in , i felt good about the way it went in and i tightened up everything good and tight again and now i have fluid in the cooling system right at the front at where the top of the head and the cover come together there is a little water leak, i tried tightening the bolts up a little more but its still leaking , any ideas on how to remedy this problem without taking everything all back apart ?
     
  16. melben

    melben Senior Member

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    Leak

    Obviously you have hurt the gasket in your attempts to install it. Assuming there are no nicks in the head or on the timing cover surface I would get a new gasket and retry it.

    I have done literally hundreds of those head jobs and never loosened the timing cover. I use a big screwdriver and drive it in between the head lip at the valve cover gasket area and the timing cover and flex the timing cover just enough to slide the gasket in place. You can get something thin and use it to scrape the area clean. Good luck, If the hollow bolt is not in the water pump opening it's not a hard job at all.

    I never reinstall that hollow bolt and have never had a problem related to its absence.

    Mel
     
  17. Mike.580ck

    Mike.580ck Well-Known Member

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    i actually did use a big screw driver to pry it out and i slid the gasket in , ive put tons of regular gas engines together and know about damaging gaskets, and the front of the head looked pretty good , im tempted to take the entire front cover off and put a little permatex on the gasket also in case there is a knick somewhere in it , that stuff that looks like molasses , and as for the hollow bolt i never did see one so im assuming it was removed before i got the machine , i just put in regular new 3/8 bolts
     
  18. Mike.580ck

    Mike.580ck Well-Known Member

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    im not sure what thread it was in but Ron had sent me a cd parts and service manual which i just received yesterday , THANKS Ron , but im going to look in there to see if it says anything but i was just thinking , its leaking right in the middle so im wondering if its that top bolt cause i do remember trying to figure out if i should put in a short bolt or if the long bolt went through the water pump , engine cover and then into the head but ill tear out the water pump first i think and look at it maybe i can seal that hole up good with some good thread compound i mean at least its worth a try i would bet money thats where its leaking from , ill update tomorrow after i get it torn apart, its supposed to snow here this week so im really hoping to get this fixed its the only thing holding me up and i know i can make some money on snow removal around my small town which it would always be nice to recoup some cash from the project
     
  19. nova481

    nova481 Well-Known Member

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    your welcome good luck
     
  20. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    If you look closely at the parts diagram, hopefully you should be able to see which bolt went where.
    Do you know how to look at the Case parts online, or does the CD you have show a good diagram?