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case 580b overhaul and transmission

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by blee62, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. blee62

    blee62 Member

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    i been having problems with transmission. i have pulled the motor out is there anything i need to do before putting engine back in.
     
  2. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Hello blee62, try to avoid starting duplicate threads of the same problem. It will get disorganised for you. The person on the forum that is familiar with the 580B is Phil in Canada. You need to describe what problems your having with your tranny, give as much detail as you can and maybe Phil can help you out. He's usually here early in the morning and signs off before 9 at night. Try to give as much info as you can for him to noodle through.
     
  3. blee62

    blee62 Member

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    under load transmission pops out of high or low gear. did not know while engine was out if there was any thing i should do?
     
  4. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Well, I'm not a B expert, but I think I can safely say the best time to do tranny repairs on one is while the engine is out. Try to think of anything else the tranny is doing. Is yours a power shuttle tranny? Or, is it a gearbox tranny with a fwd and rev gear and uses a clutch. Give all details you can think of for Phil to look over. He'll probably pop up here tomorrow. ;)
     
  5. blee62

    blee62 Member

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    it is a power shuttle.
     
  6. blee62

    blee62 Member

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    when i am under load like going a hill i have to put foot on hi low lever to keep in gear.
     
  7. blee62

    blee62 Member

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    should i put rebuilt engine in with the problems with transmission or look for another backhoe?
     
  8. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    That would be a question best answered by Phil. Be patient...he'll show up. With you having "580B" in your thread title will catch his eye...trust me. ;)
     
  9. Phil

    Phil Senior Member

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    I have to agree with ATCOEQUIP, best to fix it now by taking the torque tube out. With a high/low lever you must have a direct drive machine with a dual range gearbox housed in the torque tube. That's my best guess. I don't think you are referring to the 4-speed transmission. I've never seen a B model with a high/low range. The lever probably comes out of the side of the torque tube.

    I will look at my CK manual to see if it shows the dual range and mechanical shuttle assembly, and get back to you tonight. Not usually an expensive repair, sometimes a fork, shifter rod, or endplay issue. I've had very little experience on mechanical gearboxes jumping out of gear so please jump in anyone. This type of problem would be similar on farm tractors like the older Case 530 and 430. Phil:)
     
  10. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    My Case 680 has a four speed mechanical gearbox. It jumps out of gear also when under a load. If you can feel and see that the shift lever is putting the gearbox all the way into gear and it jumps out under load here is what I found . The gears are worn out. That is what my owners manual said to look for and I verified it by taking off the sheet metal inspection cover on the side of the transmission. The input shaft gear is worn so badly that the teeth look like knife blades. It is on the verge of stripping the teeth right off. I have a full set of new gears and all the bearings but have not been able to park the machine long enough to install them. It does not matter on my 680 weather the engine is in or out of the tractor. The transmission is behind the shuttle assembly and it will be a fairly simple job to remove and reinstall it. I saved about $800.00 by purchasing aftermarket gears and not genuine Case gears.
     
  11. Phil

    Phil Senior Member

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    I checked my 580CK manual and yes it does show the dual range option. It is located in the torque tube just behind the mechanical shuttle. I believe if you take the shuttle cover off, you could inspect the shifter forks, detent springs, and shifter rods for problems, as well as the shifting collar and gear teeth. In the book it says the chamfer on the gear teeth and shift collar should not exceed a 1/4"radius. Any excessive end-play or wobbly gears from worn bearings could cause your problem also.

    As Tinkerer said, it could be gears worn out and require many new parts. Phil
     

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  12. Papa Goose

    Papa Goose Well-Known Member

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    Best way to split?

    I'm a newbie, so I hope you don't mind me jumping in here - the question is related. I just bought a 74 580B that has a leak similar to the one described in this thread. According to the previous owner, the tractor moved just fine prior to the leak, but while I've got it apart, I'm going to do a complete disassembly of the torque tube, cleaning and checking everything.

    My question is this - as far as replacing the gasket goes, it looks like it's much easier to split at the engine/bellhousing, pulling the engine forward and leaving the hoe and loader frame attached to the rear axle. However, does this make it harder to remove the torque tube after the engine is out of the way? The book says to remove the hoe and go at it from the rear, but that hoe is heavy and I'm not sure I want to do that if I don't have to.

    I'm new to Case - we had JD and MF on the farm I grew up on, but I've split them, so I think I know what I'm getting into. Dry place to work with concrete floor, decent tools, helping hands available - what more could you ask for??

    OK - answering the obvious question - I'm going to use this baby to build an airstrip (lifelong dream), and my wife and kids have called me Papa Goose since I started flying 10 years ago.:rolleyes:
     
  13. Papa Goose

    Papa Goose Well-Known Member

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    OK, I goofed - I thought this thread was talking about a leak at the bellhousing - anyway, that's where my machine is leaking and that's why I'm taking it apart.
     
  14. tomttomtom

    tomttomtom New Member

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    Same here.............But my cousin has this tractor. It"s been sitting under
    a pecan tree for years. He"s trying to get it
    started. It has a new battery and fuilds. It turns
    over but just won"t crank. Fuel seems to be getting
    thru..... Does this thing use a glow plug? How does
    it fire? Where is it? All I see is a SENDER UNIT?
    Can anyone help???
     
  15. Phil

    Phil Senior Member

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    Papa Goose,
    It's easier to get the torque tube out with the engine already out. Just make sure you put the fuel tank back, if taken out, before you put the engine back in.

    Keep in mind that there are other places that can leak in that area, the starter gasket and the steering valve.

    The leak of course won't affect shuttle operation, as long as oil level is high enough. If you have any shuttle problems, it is a good idea to do some pressure checks before you tear the machine down.

    If you want some advice on what should be replaced in the torque tube, as preventative maintenance, let us know. Phil
     
  16. Phil

    Phil Senior Member

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    Tom,
    The 580B engine is a direct injection engine, no glow plugs, maybe a manifold heater, but that's not needed where you are. A diesel uses the heat of compression to ignite the fuel.

    A diesel that has been sitting for a long time can have several problems. It sounds like the engine turns over with the starter okay(?). Loosen the injector lines at the injectors. Are you getting any fuel out the injector lines while cranking? Phil
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2009
  17. Papa Goose

    Papa Goose Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the input Phil. I'll take a closer look at where it's leaking before I start tearing things apart. I was wondering about the starter, since it's recently been replaced, but apparently, the leak drains the t-tube pretty much dry, and the starter appears to be too high to do that.

    Just to clarify - do you recommend splitting at the engine/belhousing and then dropping the t-tube? Or, if the leak is between the t-tube and trans housing, is it easier to split it there first? I'd really like to get a close look at the shuttle (35 years and 8k hrs = no spring chicken) - can I get the shuttle out the back of the t-tube with the tube in place? Seems like you have to remove a lot of stuff to drop the tube, but maybe that's easier if the engine is clear? PG
     
  18. Phil

    Phil Senior Member

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    Papa,
    If you have to split the engine from the torque tube to replace the front gasket, I would do that first. Roll the engine on the front wheels and hoist, out of the way. Keep in mind that some gasket leaks are at the parting line between the oil pan and the engine block, and so can be fixed by removing the pan only.



    With the engine gone, remove the 2 rear studs that are screwed into blind holes at the back of the tank. The tank will then come out. Unbolt the steering column and hoist it up slightly. The torque tube has to come forward at least a foot, preferably more, to remove a lower gear, then the shuttle assembly. I'll post some pictures later. Phil
     
  19. Papa Goose

    Papa Goose Well-Known Member

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    Phil,

    After closer inspection, the leak is definitely coming from between the torque tube and tranny, so I decided to drop the hoe and go at it from the back. I've got most everything cleared around the tranny and torque tube now, so as soon as I get the loader frame mounting bolts off the axle (and the cab/fender attachments), I should be ready to split. My plan is to block up the engine, loader frame, and cab, then support the front of the tranny with an engine hoist. Once the cases are separated, I should be able to roll the axle and hoist back out of the way.

    According to the book, I can easily get the shuttle out the back once the tranny is clear. I'm planning on disassembling it so I can replace all the seals (it's a Rockwell) - do you know if the A41000 kit is still available, or do you just go to your friendly neighborhood hydraulics store for those?

    After that, I'm going to pull the front cover so I can get a close look at the pump, pickup tube, and valve assm. It shouldn't be too bad a job with the rear end of the tractor off, but I'm going to do it all with the torque tube still attached (no leaks there, so why remove it?) - do I still have to pull the tank? What else do you recommend doing while I'm in there?

    Thanks for all your help.

    PG
     
  20. Phil

    Phil Senior Member

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    Papa,
    As I recall, the large shuttle cover can be removed with the tank in place, but the pick-up tube has to be unbolted, then rebolted when re-installing. Very very difficult. If you plan to remove this cover, I would take the torque tube out the front with engine attached. Leave the tank in place, but remove the front tank studs by double nutting them. I believe the rear tank studs have to come out to, but I'm not positive about that. The steering column can be hoisted up 1"or so, with a small hoist attached to the top front of the cab.

    I'm not sure about the seal kit, but get all the seals from the Case dealer if you can. You might be able to get aftermarket, not sure. If you are going to reseal the shuttle assembly, then I would clean the screen, replace all valve body gaskets, replace the pick-up tube gasket, pump seals, and clean out the bottom of the torque tube.

    If you choose to remove your tank, either to remove the cover, or make engine/torque tube removal easier, it is covered in the "my 580B won't even move" thread. Phil