Case 450 track loader wiring nightmare

[Chads300]

 

[Chads300]

 

[Chads300]

 

[DMiller]

The solenoid in the last photo has no ground across the actuating side(small terminals) unless is grounded thru the casing which is doubtful on a two wire low amp side and do not see where the wire from the other side goes as appears it is a dead end. Do not understand the 'stacking' of solenoids. Should be key or kill switch to small solenoid(I suspect this is 24V) the small solenoid takes the amp load off the small components to activate the large solenoid on the starter, should not be a third one in circuit.

 

[Chads300]

That's what's confusing me I have never seen two relays/solinoids?

 

[DMiller]

Simplest way to fix this:

Take all the low amp system down to the key switch(get one mounted), connect the hotwire as noted with a cross connect to or from the ammeter, eliminate the suspected added on solenoid and test on a bench the old original install solenoid. Will need to have a second Batt wire to the Input large terminal of that solenoid when install and a ground for the low amp side. I would use no less than 6 gauge wire on the solenoid large terminals in and out, can be as small as 12 ga for the switch wires. Battery should feed the main lug on the starter with a smaller(6ga) wire to feed the aux circuits.

This is as simple as I could find diagram wise, ignore the + and - indicators for now until you are certain of your machines ground: + or -. http://www.gonefcon.com/trucktcom/starters.htm

 

[Operator4100]

Hey guys, to many solenoids there, one of those suppose to be for engine preheater the other one no idea, there's already one mounted on top of the starter that's the one you want to use, as the other guys have said this is a very simple wiring system to late tonight but I'll try to get a diagram for you this weekend, this is a 12 volt negative ground system, take care all

 

[Operator4100]

case starting circuit

 

[born2ride]

View attachment 163451

Operator4100 Is that a case 450? I do not see a neutral switch on mine!

Chads300 Hope this helps. Made a video for you of my 450

https://youtu.be/Ea4XB3Fr0CY

 

[Operator4100]

Hey there born2ride, The neutral switch is the start button, levers have to be in neutral to start. what you call the control wire is the wire running through the neutral/start switch, push to start. the wire on the big terminal of starter carries 12 volt up to key switch, on/off then over to push button switch between the levers, through that back to little terminal on starter that you call the control wire, I'm being very descriptive for my own sake so don't take me wrong.. yes that is for a 450 case, keep us informed, DW

 

[Willie B]

A high resistance connection can make a 120 volt table lamp fail to work. If a 12 volt starter used the same wattage as the table lamp it'd be ten times as sensitive to a bad connection.
Start at the starter. Use a DC voltmeter to test power at the starter, Did the appropriate test probe into the metal housing of the starter, the other into the starter power input. Check voltage while someone tries to turn over the engine. From battery, to starter the ground must be perfect. 200-500 amps must flow ofer these connections. Often bolted castings are the conductor. Oxidation, or dirt will impede current. I can sometimes find a bad bolt continuity across components with a DC voltmeter.

Make sure full power is delivered under load to the starter.

The solenoid may be at the starter, or on the firewall. confirm it delivers power on demand.

The solenoid coil may get power from the key switch. Check to see that you have 12 volt control power at the key switch.

I recently dealt with a Ford 1 ton truck. The owner told me he had replaced the ground cable. Following it, I found a splice, and badly corroded terminations. Fixing this, it started easily.

Willie

 

[born2ride]

Hey there born2ride, The neutral switch is the start button, levers have to be in neutral to start. what you call the control wire is the wire running through the neutral/start switch, push to start. the wire on the big terminal of starter carries 12 volt up to key switch, on/off then over to push button switch between the levers, through that back to little terminal on starter that you call the control wire, I'm being very descriptive for my own sake so don't take me wrong.. yes that is for a 450 case, keep us informed, DW

Operator4100 In your diagram you have a key, start button and a neutral safety. here is my wiring diagram i have been using. Seeing yours with the added neutral safety makes me think it was a tractor with clutch? Or mine was missing an extra safety item.



Unless i am just crazy! lol

 

[Operator4100]

I was having a Gray moment there, I kept saying what is he talking about? had to look at my picture twice before I noticed neutral start switch, I must have pull that off a later version not sure but it is for a 450, I have two or three different manuals on my puter, my bad man. Mine didn't have that switch either, I rewired mine last year it would crank but wiring was very old, 68 model. The pic you have is a good one to follow to. DW

 

[born2ride]

Operator4100 I has some small switch down on the shifter, i was assuming it was some sort of homemade reverse switch , after that diagram i got nervous being i took it ouT. LOL

 

[Operator4100]

what year is your case, early crawlers from factory only safety switch was the levers had to be centered before you could engage start button..

 

[born2ride]

what year is your case, early crawlers from factory only safety switch was the levers had to be centered before you could engage start button..

Best i come up with is a 1972 because serial is 30487.

 

[Chads300]

Hey fellas I'm working on the dozer now, was not ignoring anyone or the thread I was down with bronchitis, thanks for the video hopefully I can accomplish something today

 

[Chads300]

Born2ride I traced the charging post off the solinoid on top the starter and it runs up to one of the stacked solinoids.

 

[Chads300]

Well I have figured out that the neutral safety switch was wired up to the "stacked" cylinoid ..... is there a way to eliminate the switch or must the dozer have it?

 

[born2ride]

Well I have figured out that the neutral safety switch was wired up to the "stacked" cylinoid ..... is there a way to eliminate the switch or must the dozer have it?

I would leave the neutral safety switch!