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Burning Your Waste Oil In Your Engine???

Discussion in 'Lubrication' started by joedirt, May 20, 2008.

  1. joedirt

    joedirt Well-Known Member

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    What is your opinion on burning your waste oil in your tractor/truck? What I am getting at is does anyone do this? Is it possible? What are the pros and cons?

    I recently talked to a trucking company 100 miles east of here and they say they have been doing it for years (burning the waste oil produced by their trucks). They currently run about 15 or so Kenworth trucks that range from early 80's to the late 90's that are all cummins power (350 400 big cams and maybe some N14??) and have had no troubles.

    I dumped about 5 gals into a long term rental backhoe we had, JD310e and I must say we didn't have any trouble with it (additional 150 hours).

    I ask this question because fuel is so cheap these days:pointhead. Thanks for your advice. :usa
     
  2. Bentworker2

    Bentworker2 Active Member

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    The waste oil company here mixes all used oil, then filters it and sells it as a low grade heating oil. It gets burned at asphalt plants and in other similar industrial operations. I don't think I would run it in my equipment. If you look around and can find a source for non PCB transformer oil that may be a possible fuel.
     
  3. euclid

    euclid Senior Member

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    I don't own any equipment besides my old JD830. I believe you make more maintenace hence the words dirty oil in the fuel system. I believe if you use it in asphalt that would be the best thing. If you care for your equipment then you'd know the damage this could do and I'm sure disposal is much cheaper than a new engine or other maintenance which would require extensive down time. I also believe you need to take the sources when you are about to put in question ones livelihood to save a buck only to spend much more. I don't many any disrespect but you asked our opinion and I gave mine.
     
  4. joedirt

    joedirt Well-Known Member

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    No offense taken euclid. I agree with you as far as the savings doesn't out weigh the cost of a new fuel system not to mention another engine. I still am baffled by the other trucking operation I mentioned that has been doing this for years and years and (so they say) have not had any trouble?

    How bout you try it for me euclid, and let me know the results before I try it again.:drinkup All kidding aside, thanks for the input.
     
  5. euclid

    euclid Senior Member

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    In an old uke I would becuae you figure the age and hours it might not matter.... And thye smoke tohigh heaven anyways so no-one would be the wiser.
    I think sometime folks like to blow smoke up the darker areas. In fact on the 95 Ford I drove while in the Navy it had a warning that said: do not use used oil in the fuel system because it would clog the cat. I drove it for 2 years and it was brand new when I got it. I hauled weapons from the ship to the magazine in it and I knew it very well so what it is worth I'd let those guys buy the beers if your drinking with them.
    :drinkup
     
  6. JP'S

    JP'S Member

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    I had a buddy tell me he was putting used oil in his f-350. Says the truck ran smoother and wasn't as loud. I would be scared to try it. But good luck if you do.
     
  7. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Used to be a good ole Georgian redneck trucker on another site who ran his ''burnt'' oil in his Cummins pickup.He swore up and down how his engine loved his brew and didn't care that he was risking huge fines because he was also running red.His buddy told me he was always having injector issues---wonder why????
     
  8. pushkid84

    pushkid84 Well-Known Member

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    i looked into it a bit and if the oil doesnot have any metal shavings or foriegn debris it should work just fine after all the new bio deisil garbage is basiclly recyled cooking oil and with the cost of fuel i might be inclined to try and burn banana peals if i could i wont say that i would put it in my truck or tractor but a rental heak yes.
     
  9. pushkid84

    pushkid84 Well-Known Member

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    i just spoke to a guy about the subject and says hes put waste oil in his 95 f350 since hes had it and and never had any problem he also swerars by it he says " just adds lubracant to the fuel, and that he might even recomend it every now and again. "
     
  10. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    With older mechanical injectors and MUCH lower fuel PSI in older engines,waste oil mixed with diesel would have a higher tolerance for this practice{I'm being real nice here}.Newer engines with electronic injectors and 25K PSI wouldn't fare as well.It's like that old commercial on TV--''You could pay me now or pay me later" scenario.It's all about how much you're willing to risk and the longevity of your engine.
     
  11. euclid

    euclid Senior Member

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    Bingo:scool it is about the tolerances and when mucking about with computers you get into bad situations that could have been prevented by thinking you can or could save a buck:shf
     
  12. Durette

    Durette Member

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    I think it would only be an issue if the equipment is heavily loaded. You need to run lean to burn off heavier oils. Otherwise, you'll be left with sludge and carbon. Go easy on the engine, and I say it's a great idea, especially with this market.
     
  13. Farmer

    Farmer Member

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    Some of the modern cummins' burn the oil in the engine and automatically replace it via a second engine oil tank. I'm not sure but i believe its at about 7ltrs per hundred.
     
  14. Johnsoils

    Johnsoils Site Sponsor

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    I've talked to guys that are running used oil in their fuel and not having any issues, but then again they are all older pickups with mechanical pumps. I get approached by folks that want my used oil for vehicle fuel or building heat.

    I think Tuney hit the nail on the head with tolerences. With the tighter tolerences and higher pressures on the new injector systems you will need to filter the used oil down to a lower micron. One guys told me he is building a centrifuge to clean his oil before putting it in his truck.

    One guy here in Iowa said he runs nearly 100% used oil in the summer months, then starts to dilute it down in the cooler months with diesel fuel so that it will flow.

    Pretty neat stuff. I like people that think outside the box.
     
  15. mouse

    mouse Well-Known Member

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    cat have an option on their serious machinrd whereby it constantly burns oil thus extendiong the oil changes to something like 4k hours. probably similar to the cummins system.

    i have no idea how it works nor where int he system the oil is introduced, its a feature they tout on their mining machinery brochures.

    if cat do it then i assume its both possible and feasible over the long term
     
  16. surfer-joe

    surfer-joe Senior Member

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    I combined used oils in fuel systems on Cat dozers and scrapers, other machines too for several years in the eighties. It was an accepted practice then before emissions and the environment became such an issue. We filtered the oil carefully, also made sure that no one dumped cleaning solvent or coolant into the collection tank. Most of the engine manufacturers had specific standards for what percentage of used oil to fuel you could run. I would agree with some here that older machines up to about 1990 could run safely with used oil, after that, with the changes in fuel system technology, I don't believe I would try it.

    One project office manager that I worked with in Pennsylvania bought old home heating oil without my knowledge for use as fuel in our machines. He had done this on his previous project and saved a bundle on fuel costs. However, the high acid level of that fuel etched the injectors and the high pressure injector pump in a newer Cat 245 excavator and ended up costing us over 25000 bucks for new parts and labor. Thinking back, I believe it cost us an engine in a 777B haul truck too, which was not cheap to replace and there was a week or more down time on both machines to consider.

    I burned waste oil in a burner that heated our shop in Colorado. Believe we put about 50000 gallons through it in about two years. The heating element gave us constant trouble and the fuel filters were also in need of replacement nearly every week. The ash built up inside the heater tubes till they plugged up and when we used a shop vac to suck the ash out of those tubes, it blew right out of the vacuum all over the shop. It was an exceptionally fine powder, like talc. Had to dismantle the furnace and wash the tubes out after that fiasco. But that furnace kept the entire shop warm without the use of the infrared gas heaters located in rows on each side of the shop. I don't think you can use waste oil burners in Colorado anymore, not legally anyway.

    At the time (1992), Komatsu was injecting small amounts of engine oil into the intake manifold on WA600 loaders, of which I had two. This resulted in the plugging off of the air compressor discharge tube with a brownish coke like material. This happened to both machines at about the same time with maybe 3500 hours on each machine. After replacing the parts and realizing what caused the problem, we plugged off the line feeding the engine oil into the intake. Just an unintended consequence of what some engineer thought was a good idea.

    I do not know how Cat and others are burning used oil in their machines today other than the method does not use oil collected from several sources. The oil Cat uses is from the individual machines own engine, which as I recall, was Cat's recommendation years ago, which we ignored in our zeal to get rid of waste oil as cheaply as possible.

    Back then, we were under the hammer to be very careful about allowing waste oil off the projects, as the company had just gotten sucked into a federal cleanup at a used oil refinery in Salt Lake City, for which they were paying a large sum of money. As I recall, only one 4500 gallon load of company oil had been delivered to the refinery, but the company ended up being one of the top five firms cited and having to pay. We thought it was mostly the result of the outfit having deep pockets if you know what I mean.

    We didn't let any waste oil go off the job in Colorado, but in other places we did. In that time I sold waste oil for as much as 45 cents a gallon (in Maryland), and paid as much as 25 cents a gallon to have it removed in eastern Pennsylvania. I also started checking the places our waste oil went pretty closely as that was a time when some pretty serious problems were discovered with waste oil haulers and collection or refinery facilities. Indeed, there was a used oil barrel reconditioning facility in Grand Junction that was forced to close because of pollution problems. They'd been in business for decades and the ground the plant stood upon was heavily saturated with all kinds of bad stuff, and they were right on the edge of the Colorado River.

    There is a lot of soot and acid even in today's used motor oils. Take that into consideration if you decide to burn the oil in your engines. I don't know that it's worth the trouble really, the potential for expensive repairs and downtime are very real, plus the added expense of extra fuel filters or pre-filter fuel processing equipment. New oil isn't cheap either, which the engines that burn their own oil use in varying amounts. Next consider the effect the extra ash and soot have on catalytic converters and exhaust systems if waste oil is burned in systems with which equipped. User beware!
     
  17. bstiles

    bstiles Member

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    BE CAREFUL. A good friend of mine has a duramax diesel and he changes his oil @ 50% life. He was running used oil and we had a full load of round bales on the gooseneck and the truck went into limp mode due to low rail pressure due to a dirty fuel filter. I went out and changed his filter and its was full of crap, the filter had only 200hrs. on it.

    Another thing the tier3 engines will not handle the crappy fuel any more. We had one run backwards in a linkbelt 330 with a 6hk1 isuzu. we found that the injector tip cracked and filled the cylinder with fuel. It had water in the fuel and the tip wouldn't pass the water drop. A tier3 injector tip has twice as many holes, but they are only half the size of a tier2
     
  18. thejdman04

    thejdman04 Senior Member

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    I wouldnt w/these newer systems and tight clearances. Older diesels would burn about an ything
     
  19. Johnsoils

    Johnsoils Site Sponsor

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    bstiles,

    The Duramax diesel in the Chevrolet/GMC pickups have a 4-micron filter. Your friend might want to change the filter again in the near future to prevent unplanned downtime. I've talked to several Duramax guys this winter, they are having the most trouble that I've heard of with fuel filter waxing in the cold weather. The new 2008 Duramax are a nightmare to change the fuel filter on I'm told. I thought the 2006 was bad enough. Once spring gets here a lot of the filter issues will fade away until next winter. Good luck! John
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009
  20. Haul-Pak

    Haul-Pak Well-Known Member

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    CAT's is called Oil Renewal System. (ORS) Only really seen it on 3500 engine's with EUI.

    A valve on the side Inject's a small amount of oil into the return side of the Fuel system and a Header tank up near the Master key (D11R) inject's fresh oil into the motor.

    Works well when it's not filling the crank case with fuel :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009