1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

another 963C problem (drive)

Discussion in 'Track Loaders' started by powerjoke, Oct 1, 2009.

  1. powerjoke

    powerjoke Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Occupation:
    owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
    Location:
    Missouri
    well, one of my older machines has a drive issue,

    It only travels about 1/3 speed. and in forward it will not track straight. so i pulled the codes up on it and we have a

    132.4, 134.6 and a 168.? and the book shows a drive solonoid circuit high possible short, and the other is right forward mechanical not responding to computer. (or something like that) and I couldnt find the third one.

    If it was a non computer controlled machine i would guess that the drive motor or pump was going weak and the crossover valve was compensating for it. what do you all think?

    oh' I priced a drive motor just for the helluvit ,.......$10grand :rolleyes:

    Pj
     
  2. bigblueox

    bigblueox Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Messages:
    348
    Location:
    virginia
    check the plugs?
     
  3. Per Eriksson

    Per Eriksson Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    529
    Location:
    Sweden
    Are these active or logged codes?

    Yuo could try swapping the left and right solenoids and see how it reacts to that.
     
  4. powerjoke

    powerjoke Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Occupation:
    owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
    Location:
    Missouri
    I might try that,


    These codes are the ones that come up when you push the button on the dash, i havent got the service codes out of it from the switch under the armrest yet.

    i checked again on the code and it was a 168.04 and its not in our book's. might anyone else know what this code is?

    EDIT: i may try swapping solonoids i havent messed with it too much yet, something else that is strange, the damn thing will KILL the motor by stalling the hydraulics......im kinda wondering about a pilot/charge pump what is your ideas?

    Pj
     
  5. Burnout

    Burnout Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,442
    Occupation:
    Operator at Sureway Construction
    Location:
    Edmonton AB
    I think you've got the curse in your machine. Have you pulled your charge filter or case drain filter? Almost every problem to do with the drive system on our 73's ends up being the HPCU and there is always evidence in the case drain filter.

    If you have time to wait for a day or two I can ask our track loader mechanic. He is the know all guy when it comes to track loaders. He does all of the rebuilds on our 973's and now the 963's.

    Just curious, whay oil are you running in the drive system on your 963, and how many hours? Also... what C series machine is it? I am pretty sure there are 3 variants of the 63C.

    My 73C just went back to the shop a couple weeks ago because the right side steering solenoid was showing abnormally high pressure and causing the machine to come to a dead stop. The machine is still in the shop because 2 months ago when it was in for an undercarriage they pulled the HPCU and now I am pulling active trouble codes on a daily basis.
     
  6. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,466
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    168.04 is low electrical system voltage.

    The way to tell which codes are active and which are logged is when you get the service codes off the dash, an active code also shows the message "serv code". A logged code shows just the code on it's own.

    When you say the hydraulics can kill the engine, do you mean the implement hydraulics? If so, then we have to think what could cause both the travel hydraulics and implement hydraulics to develop a problem at the same time? One answer could be the engine not developing enough power.
     
  7. powerjoke

    powerjoke Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Occupation:
    owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
    Location:
    Missouri
    the machine is a 2DS, it is a 2000 with 12khours on it so it's time for a few problem's. I am going to pull samples and cut filters in the morning but yeah Burnout; we have the time lol.

    but Cmark; yeah the bucket/boom will kill the engine. i'll check if the "srvc code" light is on when flashing codes.....but i dont think so.

    Also, i thought about the engine thing too, the machine has been on a job and then it went from the jobsite to the Dealer to get a new head/injectors etc. and when it came home it wouldnt hardly pull itself off the trailer.

    it travels straight in reverse but steers hard to the left while traveling forward, i am kinda wondering if maybe they have got some wires pinched or something while putting the cab back on it.

    Pj
     
  8. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,466
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    So you sent a good machine into the dealer's workshops and now you've got it back, it's got problems?

    A familiar story and the answer is simple. Get them out to look at it.

    It doesn't matter which dealer they're from, field service guys are used to fixing the workshop's screwups....
     
  9. Nikos_23

    Nikos_23 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    greece
    I have this codes at serv scan 137.08.168.04,135.07,136.08
    Know anyone what mean and what i can do to fix the prob???
    PLs help me.
    Thanks for your time
     
  10. Per Eriksson

    Per Eriksson Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    529
    Location:
    Sweden
    137.08 Pressure Sensor (Pilot) (Right Drive Motor) Abnormal frequency, pulse width or period

    136.08 Pressure Sensor (Pilot) (Left Drive Motor) Abnormal frequency, pulse width or period

    135.07 Solenoid (Left Forward Steering) Mechanical system that is not responding properly

    are they active or logged?
    How do the machine drive, straight or drifts to one side, forward and reverse the same?

    168.04 Voltage that is below normal or shorted low, dont worry about this.
     
  11. Per Eriksson

    Per Eriksson Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    529
    Location:
    Sweden
    error
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  12. Nikos_23

    Nikos_23 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    greece
    I push the button in the monitor and i see this codes when start up...so the first two codes is from hydraulics pumps drives???what i can do for this??the third code i think that need to by another sensor because it doesnt work....the machine reverse very fast in 1600rpm and i dont think thas has a prob if i want the machine make cyrcles...sorry for my english i dont know very well...thanks for your help my friend..big thanks!!!
     
  13. powerjoke

    powerjoke Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Occupation:
    owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
    Location:
    Missouri
    GOT IT FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! great day in Clinton mo lol.
    CaT had to run through the full "calibration" procedure about 4-5 times but a couple of hours of B/S it straightened but traveled really slow (about 1/3 speed).

    So,the Dealer that installed the head Alban Tractor. aperantly didnt set the fuel rack properly and here's why i think......

    most of the time when you rev from an idle it is real sluggish to rev, but once in a while it revs very very quickly.

    so today i was pushing a pile (trying to stall) and just before the motor died i idled the motor and neutral the stick, when i reved it back up the turbo kicked in and sounded good(it was having a good revup moment :rolleyes: ) so i crammed the pile as hard as i could and the tracks were slipping like they should and it had all the bucket power in the world.....so now i think its just a engine performance problem but a decent tech can probably confirm that within about 30 min hopefully i have one this time;)

    But NIKOS: i'll let you know tomorrow after the tech leaves, but we are having pretty much the same problem, and if your only revving to 1600rpm that could be a big deal on your problem....oh and calibrate calibrate calibrate calibrate the powertrain

    Pj
     
  14. powerjoke

    powerjoke Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Occupation:
    owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
    Location:
    Missouri
    forgot to add.

    Burnout: both filters were clean and looked better than expected. and after we swapped the forward pilot solonoids the machine started veering to the right instead of the left.

    Pj
     
  15. Burnout

    Burnout Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,442
    Occupation:
    Operator at Sureway Construction
    Location:
    Edmonton AB
    I'm sure you had a sigh of relief when you saw clean filters. I know our mechanic cringes when he hears the words 973 and drivetrain in the same sentence. I fired up my 973 on saturday morning all seemed well. the usual drone and tick of the C9 on a cold morning. I jumped in her after her 30 minute warm up and noticed a very large cloud of blue smoke coming through the fan. So I shut her down and I could smell some serius burnage. Apparently my ignition sticks and the starter never disengaged and I burned up a starter. I got talking to the tech and its the 4rd starter in the last year on this unit. So he replaced the ignition itself and all is well....along with what im sure is a very expensive starter.
     
  16. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,466
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    So your mechanic bought four new starters before he considered looking for the root cause of the problem? I bet your boss loves him!
     
  17. powerjoke

    powerjoke Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Occupation:
    owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
    Location:
    Missouri
    lol, yeah bet that's right.

    I am surprised it lasted 30minutes though

    on a more serious note though, wonder why the mechanic wouldnt try to figure out why it had became standard procedure to tighten the tracks, change the teeth, change the oil, change the starter. lol

    i got an old 963 (21Z) that just went through the shop and i spent 3G on the trans because of a steering issue and the Dealer told me that they was still diagnosing the problem, i told them that if they hadnt figured it out by now to pull the cord and i would send a truck after it.....well, we finally got it my shop yesterday, it wouldnt pull itself off the trailer without giving up on one side and trying to jump off the side of the detach..it was like one side was free-wheeling, well it took me about 2 minutes(including warmup ;)) to figure out it has a drive problem such as a planetary,axle or a speed reducer, the part i dont get is the thing is growling like crazy outta the left rear corner.....how in the hell they could interperet that into a trans problem i'll never know

    Anymore if I cant field repair something i am going to have it shipped home, these outa state CaT dealers quickly making me lose faith!

    Pj
     
  18. powerjoke

    powerjoke Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,125
    Occupation:
    owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
    Location:
    Missouri
    One more thing,

    While CaT was here yesterday i had them pull the codes off of an older 953C (2ZN) and it showed up 124 occurances of XXXX.XX(I forget the number) but the description was "throttle indicator voltage high". and it seems like the motor over-revs a little bit but still only show's 2350rpm, i cant imagine why it would have a TPS on it if it's a mechanical motor. I hate to keep bothering you guys but does this ring a bell with anyone?

    I aint too worried about it, it seems like it isnt bothering anything

    Pj
     
  19. Nikos_23

    Nikos_23 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    greece
    First of all thanks for advices and i am really happy for powerjoke who find his problem...My machine hasnt problems...work good and fast...push good too...this codes i find when i push the button who shows the rpm in monitor and i saw this four codes...135.07 in this code i find the sensor cut and i replace...maybe sensors doesnt work???what hydraulic oil use for pumps???I saw in manual and i use 10W....
     
  20. Per Eriksson

    Per Eriksson Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    529
    Location:
    Sweden
    Powerjoke, So you ended up replacing a forward solenoid and then calibrating the whole lot?

    The xxx.x , could it have been "CID 0465 Limit Switch (Throttle Lever)"?
    It's the high/low idle switch, probarly worn out.

    Better sit down when you price the final drive parts, I rebuilt a complete finaldrive on a 953 a while ago, it had a seal failure and then they ran it dry for a looong while until the gears inside no longer engaged eachother basically, carnage is a fitting word. It even destroyed the splines on the drive motor shaft.