580C Fuel Issue??

[TrIndy]

I have an issue with my 580C where it runs great for a few seconds or a minute or so, then slowly stops running even at full throttle. It's almost like it's running out of fuel. It just started doing this today after running it for about 4 hours with no issue.

The odd thing is that when I loosen the cover on the side of the injection pump and let some fuel drain out, then it runs ok for about 2 minutes instead of 10 seconds. It always fires right back up right after it shuts down.

I haven't changed the filters yet, but when I opened the fuel return line at the top of the injection pump, there's fuel squirting out of the pump fitting. I assume this means there's plenty of fuel.

I did bleed the air out of the filters several times.

Would water in the fuel cause this? Or air trapped somewhere in the lines? Or is something in the pump screwed up?

Thanks in advance for any help that you can give.

 

[lantraxco]

Common tale of woe, flex ring in the pump is slowly coming apart and pieces of it are blocking the check valve where the fuel return line comes out of the top of the pump. Disconnect the fuel return line, remove the adapter fitting, the check ball lives inside it. Clean it out, or as some suggest break the glass check ball and remove all the pieces this will allow you to run the machine TEMPORARILY. Sooner or later I have been told the ring fails completely and may jam the fuel pump wide open. This is not a happy thing as a runaway engine does not live long and can fail dramatically. Pump some fuel if you can with the primer pump to flush the case a bit before reinstalling the check valve and return line.

If you don't find debris in the check valve, it is also possible you have a blocked or crimped fuel return line, can cause the same symptoms.

 

[TrIndy]

Thanks for the info. I'll try that first thing tomorrow morning. Hopefully I can clean the check valve and it will run for a while. I'm in the middle of building a driveway in my back yard and it ran good just long enough to make a mess that's hard to clean up without it.

 

[Delmer]

My understanding is that if you clean the fitting it will plug up and stall again as the ring comes apart more. If you knock the guts out of the fitting, it's more likely to keep running until the ring breaks and the engine runs away. Much safer to leave the check valve intact and risk it stalling again.

 

[lantraxco]

My understanding is that if you clean the fitting it will plug up and stall again as the ring comes apart more. If you knock the guts out of the fitting, it's more likely to keep running until the ring breaks and the engine runs away. Much safer to leave the check valve intact and risk it stalling again.

Delmer: That has always been my feeling as well, clean it out and leave it intact, good point.

 

[thepumpguysc]

BOTH Lan & Delmer are correct.. BUT>
If you have a project you HAVE TO GET DONE.. and its not going to take weeks to complete..
Remove the fitting and knock the ball and spring out..
The engine will tell you if its getting ready to "let go ".. You wont be able to control the speed/RPM of the engine..
It will surge, rev up and down first..
When THAT HAPPPENS.. SHUT IT DOWN IMMEDIATLY !!! And get the pump repaired..
Just REMEMBER>> this is NOT a fix.. its a PATCH.. a patch that wont last long..
When you have the pump repaired.. and YOU WILL have to.. and you plan on keeping the machine..
get your rebuilder to put in an EID weight retainer.. it costs more but you'll never have a flex ring problem again..
P# 29111

 

[TrIndy]

Here's an update. I took the check valve off and cleaned it out. It did have some very small brown rust-like flakes in it. I put it back on and it ran fine for about 3 or 4 hours, then it started shutting down again. I just called it a day and I'll take it off again tomorrow and see if it's clogged with the same stuff again.

One thing I noticed is that it always starts acting up when I set the speed high for using the dipper. I did mostly driving around grading today, then when I set the speed to about 3/4 throttle to scrape some dirt with the dipper, it shut down after about 5 minutes.

BTW, this pump was rebuilt about 10 years ago but it has only been used about 100 hours. I guess sitting around took it's toll on the flex ring.

 

[Delmer]

Clean it again, the flex ring debris should look like coffee grounds. If it looks like rust flakes, could it be fuel varnish? if it's rust, you're screwed.

 

[lantraxco]

Yeah, if there was any water in the system during all that sitting, it could be nothing more than rust flakes from inside the pump, but then.....

 

[TrIndy]

I changed the fuel filters today and cleaned the check valve again. It ran for about 3 hours without stalling so I cleaned it again and it runs ok again. I'm not finding anything in the check valve when I clean it though...maybe it's just sticking. I ordered a new one and I'll change it out in a couple of days.

 

[Delmer]

Maybe it's just the gunked up fuel, most likely in my opinion. Now you'll have a clean one to plop back in place with one hand after the other hand unscrews the plugged one, you'll be doing it in under a minute! I don't think it will really do that for too long. Don't let any biodiesel sit in it though, maybe OK, even a good idea if you're going to run it consistently for a while.

 

[lantraxco]

For sure run some biocide in the fuel and after that some injector cleaner maybe....

 

[TrIndy]

Thanks for the advice on the bio diesel and injector cleaner. Does the bio diesel have something in it to clean any gunk out of the system?

I'll give them a try when I change the fitting.

 

[lantraxco]

Biocide is a fuel additive that kills algae....

 

[Delmer]

Biodiesel is a more aggressive solvent than regular diesel, but don't let it sit or it will turn to chicken skin.

 

[TrIndy]

OK. I'll try to find some of the Bio stuff. I did put some injector cleaner in it yesterday. When I went to pick up the new check valve fitting today at Case, the one they had did not have a ball/spring in it, so I didn't get it. Since theirs didn't have the check valve, I decided to remove the check valve part of the fitting on mine(it screws off of the elbow) and run it that way. It ran great all day without shutting down. Does anyone know if the check valve is really needed...especially since Case doesn't even sell it.

 

[thepumpguysc]

The "return connector" as its called, is not a Case part.. its supplied by the injection pump manufacturer.. formally Roosa Master, now Stanadyne.
ANY injection shop will have one on the shelf in stock.. they get replaced 100% on a rebuild.
Your going to need the P# off the side of the pump inorder to get the correct one.. probably a 15830
The purpose of the connector is to maintain housing pressure, to aid in the movement of the timing advance piston..
No pressure = no advance.. it will run but not at full efficiency.. just like a distributor in a gas engine..
Just clean your old one out and if it clogs again.. knock it out and finish your work.. or leave the elbow in the top cover..
We already explained to you what the problem is.. changing out the return connectors isn't going to fix it..
You either have seriously contaminated fuel or the flex ring inside the pump has deteriated to the point its coming apart..