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Thread: Mud

  1. #1
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    Mud

    i am on a job where we have about 40,000 yards of mud. it is coming out of a mud slide and we are trying to make about a 30 foot thick fill, but we can not even get on top of the mud with the lgp cats. right now most of it is a little bit thicker than water and some of it is like tar.

    how the hell do you deal with this stuff.

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    How ?

    Would a dragline or crane with clamshell bucket work ?

    Cat 245 size Hydraulic excavator with clamshell ?

    Post some pics so we can see the dilemma ,

  3. #3
    Senior Member Countryboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trainwreck View Post
    how the hell do you deal with this stuff.
    With pictures...

    Are you allowed to blend in stabilizers or is that not an option? We blended bags of Quikrete in some swamp mud on our property to give a dozer access on the other side. We didn't want it rock hard so we didn't use too many bags but it definately made it solid enough for the dozer. Before the Quikrete, I couldn't even stand there without sinking to my waist.

    By the way, we had tried lime....and lots of it. That swamp mud swallowed it whole.

  4. #4
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    Fly ash works on the same principal as quikrete and it's a lot cheaper. You could probably get a train load at a power plant fairly easily too.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Dirtman2007's Avatar
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    dealing with mud sucks, We dredge out a lot of ponds and there has never been a job where we had plenty or room to get rid of the crap. One job we had a 3 acre feild to dump out all the 250 loads of mud, but the mud was so wet that when it came out of the truck it spread out in about a 30' circle. It did not take long to fill up the field!

    In your case Here is a sloution that may work for you. In the area that is going to be filled dig out a long a shallow area and pile the dirt up on the sides to act as a dam. You may have to do this several sections according to how much material you have. Once you have a pool like area finished have the dozers start pushing the mud down to the area that has been dug out. Then have an excavator sitting on top of the dam to pile the mud up inside of the area that was dug out. This will act as a large holding tank to hold all the mud. Once it is full, dig another one and repeat the process.

    I've done this many time before and it seems to work good for me. If you have any other questions just give me a shout.

    And the important thing to remember is not to drive out onto the areas filled for a very long time. It may look hard on top, but 3' down its still liquid, and that can ruin yer day!! I know...
    Chris

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  6. #6
    Senior Member MKTEF's Avatar
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    I was on a job where we loaded clay, it was nearly hard when loaded, but after som driving it was like liquid.
    Exc had to move for each load he did, or else he would sink down in it.

    We transported it with adt's with tailgates. A35's.(top and bottom hinged)
    Filling was done in a pond.(big one)
    This clay just poured out like water when u raised the dump.

    I know that today in the same area they use lgp's and mix this stuff with sand/other masses and makes a filling out of it.(2 dozers mixing it)

    In your case i beliewe it would be difficult to mix, as it is floating already.
    Load it up with exc/wheelloader/trackedloader in adt's/trucks with tight tailgates and make a pond that will dry out in some time...(as dirtman suggests)
    Make a fence around with warnings...(in theese safety times)
    Have a nice day!

  7. #7
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    Unless you can dike it up as has been suggested, than your other choice is to blend it with dry material or, as has also been mentioned, commercial binders. This may not be an economical solution for you, but it's up to the owner to decide, if he really needs to dispose of the mud.

  8. #8
    Senior Member LDK's Avatar
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    If the area is not going to be built on and the ground under the mud is good I have used the following method on several ocassions and it has worked fine.
    I had excavators dig a deep slot, a machine width from the edge the mud, I then use a dozer or an excavator to fill the slot to within about a meter of the surface. When the first slot is full I move closer to the mud and dig another wide trench as deep as possible but leaving a wall of the good material between it and the trench I have just filled with the mud, the good dirt from this trench is cast on top of the mud that is laying in the first slot and I repeat this cycle till I am done.
    The last time I did this the layer of good dirt that covered the mud was 2 to 3 meters thick and I was running around on it with a D9R with out any problems.
    We did not have the space to spread the mud and let it dry and the method I used was cheaper than hauling it to a tip, even though it was close by. It is not the answer to every situation but it works for some.
    Dig it deep, tip it high!!

  9. #9
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    lime will stiffen it up, but you'll need a whole lot of it. I've used it before it dries it up pretty good.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dozerboy's Avatar
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    Fly Ash is where I would start there are other options. Is it clay or what, and if you dump it in a pile will the water run off of it?

  11. #11
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    Having nice sunny days and warm temps would help out a lot, but in your area im sure thats something you have a shortage of. Ive worked around stabilization projects. We have use lime kiln dust, quick lime, cement, and flyash. All will work, but all will be a little different. They all do the same thing. They get wet, and crystilize in the soil as it drys. Most people will tell you that need stabilizing, really, you need less than 4% of any of these products to achieve results, that would be considered modification.

    This being said, you are going to need a lot of any product. If I remember correctly, 25 tons would cover an area about the size of a football field, one foot thick. Its pretty awesome, you can take a material that you cannot walk on, and turn it into a building pad.

  12. #12
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    today i got back in time to post a few pic of what i a working with. so here it is... oh and the stuck pics i was not even in the machine when the mud slide hit it
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  13. #13
    Senior Member RollOver Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trainwreck View Post
    oh and the stuck pics i was not even in the machine when the mud slide hit it
    I almost used a line similar to that...............j/k
    Had it not been for all of the eyes locked in on me as I dug myself half way to China, I might have gotten away with it.



    Attached Images Attached Images  
    RollOver Pete
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    "Hello, I'm Pete and I'm a workaholic"

  14. #14
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    Saturation or Liquification ?

    Hello Trainwreck,

    Obviously your soils are past the Saturation point and now are in the Liquification stage. Mudslides from rain , snow laden excess's.

    From your picture looks like you have a limited dump site, for disposal. Just push it off somewhere else, out of the way.

    To do that, in the time constraints, I'd follow what others have suggested, is to import, admixtures to solidify the material, to be able, to move the waste material into a permanent place .

    Anything, even sawdust,wood chips,etc. to mix it up. Whatever is available locally.

    Otherwise just wait 6 weeks or longer, for it to dry out by itself.

  15. #15
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    I don't know all the restictions Trainwreck is under with the mud but this is the Pacific Northwest. We have lots of greenies that have bored their way into the government and bureaucracy. I doubt that fillers and additives can be used in any form on that slide.

    The only way around the situation I have seen used in recent years in this area is dumping hog fuel on top to make a road and then bailing the sides into artics. The material is then stock piled out of the way until dry enough to handle.

    At any rate I feel your pain, but also see lots of money coming your way. The environmentals have big mouths and dumb ideas but are real thin on solutions and real free with someone elses money.

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