Pins and bushings, first off, you should have or be using hard chromed pins.... If not, get some and you will be ahead of the wearing game. Whether pins for connector links or king pins / king bolts for your axles. Get HARD CHROMED PINS. Working industrial maintenance for years, we used lube reserviors on lots of machine bearings etc. They work like bearing buddies for trailer wheel bearings. Always keeping some pressure on the grease to replace any that leaks away etc. They have spring pistons (like the BB's) and keep lube available even if they are missed on a regular scheduled lube job. The reservoir keeps lube available at all times if normal lube is pushed, beat, or washed out. They come in many sizes so check your supplier, Grangers, etc for what is available. Might help with your wear problems. They can be used anywhere a zerk fitting is used, On that axle to keep those king pins lubed too. Hope this is useful in some applications, There are lube (grease) and oil reservoirs so use the ones that fit your application needs
Does Amsoil make anything like that?
there is not a one grease fits all. Grease does different things, high speed low load, high load low speed, shock factor, temp factors, lots of other things. Different complex grease serve differently as well as the additive packages. At Trapper coal mine we use Belray 8626 on all the heavy equipment, 3% moly? heavy load low speed. Tried other greases and always come back to belray, its aluminum complex which is alot different then the other lithiums most others are made from. I know the shaeffer is lithium semi synth I think it has moly. Both are EPs which is why neither will pound out. Ill have to see if I can look at the product sheets and compare them. It would be interesting to see the timken test and the viscosity differences.
Reminds me eveyone has there opinions but look at the data sheets for everything your looking at
Timken for high wear
4 ball test for weld and speed vs pressure
the higher viscosity the better
additive packages (moly)
Make sure you research before mixing greases!!!! Calcium sulf doesnt play well with others, dumping lithium over it or viseversa can make glue! Mixing thickeners can rip a machine in half
Originally Posted by nobull1
Calcium sulphonate plays well with most other thickeners
I have a compatability chart for greases if anyone wants a copy. Just email me firstname.lastname@example.org
Also, for operating temperatures between -40C and +250C there is a "one grease fits all" product. Contact me if you want more information.
You mean something like this
Any grease that works -40 to 250C might work but if your going to be able to pump it through a automatic grease system at low temps its going to be 00 or at least a 0. Usually the the base stock on arctic grease is very low visc. You take a grease with base viscosity 70 centistokes at -30* it will drop below 20 centistokes at 70*. When the above chart lists thickeners as borderline the wrong additive package can make it incompatible.
I realize a "one grease fits all" solution doesn't help your business. Our clients have proven our solution to this issue so we'll go with their exeriences and results.
In the chart you supplied it seems to indicate your comment "Calcium sulf doesnt play well with others, dumping lithium over it or viseversa can make glue!" is 100% inaccurate. Either that or you should make up a new chart that supports what you want others to believe.
I have found this thread to be very educational. Nothing is better than first hand experience.
Looks like I will be using different grease on our equipment.
Thank You All
this sold the bossman man on sight, he bought a pallet of it!
06-28-2011, 01:30 AM
old1 - what grease did you choose?
06-28-2011, 01:36 AM
deerefan - ASTM has testing protocols for all useful characteristics of a grease. "pound out" would be a standard test if it had any value.
06-28-2011, 01:40 AM
Kinda wondering how it doesent have value, every time a hoe bucket applies force in any direction that force is a pplied on the pin therefore on the grease, trying to force it out aka "pound out". Most ppl have seen the famous shaeffers ad with the hammers witch is strictly focussed on pound out.
06-28-2011, 05:38 PM
I have so many stories about grease over the years that if I posted them all here it would probably double the size of this thread ..........
I'm not going to read the whole thread again so my apologies in advance if some points have already been made. Here's my thoughts. I'll say here and now it is awfully hard to select one grease that will fill all your needs, unless you're lubricating just a couple of machines. In my present job we use 4 different greases for different applications but then again we are looking after about 100 pieces of equipment on one job site.
1. What is the application..?
Slow moving, heavily loaded pins & bushes that don't rotate 360 degrees (Loader pins, ripper pins, etc) are better lubricated with a moly-based grease. 3% moly as a minimum, 5% is even better.
Low speed rolling element bearings would be better using an EP lithium complex grease.
High speed rolling element bearings (such as fan drives) are better using a specific high-speed bearing grease. These greases are often (but not always) synthetics.
2. How is the grease applied..? Hand grease gun..? Power grease gun..? Automatic lube system..?
Each of these forms of applications needs potentially a different fluidity of grease - the NLGI Number, so that you can pump it into the bearing and for it to stay there until the next time you grease. NLGI 000 would be for super Arctic temperatures up to a NLGI 3 for desert application around 50 DegC. A hand-applied grease would normally be an NLGI #2, an autolube would often be a #0 or a #1, but it's very much dependent on ambient temperature. Of course if you hand apply the grease it needs to be less fluid (more "sticky" or "tacky") because it might be 4-8 hours before you grease again, where an autolube system might be greasing every 15 minutes.
As a comment here a lot of people find it totally amazing that a manufacturer can produce 6 different grease viscosities from NLGI 00 to NLGI #3 all using the exact same ISO VG 220 base stock. The difference in fluidity all comes from the additive package.
3. Mineral-oil based grease versus synthetic..?
The high quality mineral oil based greases I've worked with from companies like Exxon-Mobil & Shell are every bit as good performance-wise as synthetics such as Molub-Alloy in my opinion, and usually 30-50% cheaper. I went away from synthetic grease a number of years ago except for some very specific applications (fan bearings are one) and am more than happy with the results.
4. Water wash-out and corrosion resistance. If you're in an area where there is a lot of rain or your equipment works in lots of mud you need to consider the resistance of the grease to being washed out of the joint, and also the resistance to corrosion.
5. Heavily-loaded pins. These would be pins on machines like large front-end loaders, big excavators, shovels, etc. A high-performance grease is essential for these pin/bush joints. A lot of my experience is on Cat 994's and similar wheel loaders. We found early on that 5% moly grease wasn't cutting it on its own. We soon came to the conclusion that what was required was a grease that could maintain a lubricant film under extreme loads in 24/7 operating conditions. Here's where the "4-ball weld & scar test" comes in. I won't bore you with how it's done. See ... http://www.luboron.com/pdf/4BallTestDescription.pdf if you want details. Basically the test gives a result in kilogrammes, the higher the number the better the grease film will resist shearing in the joint and keep the pin and the bush apart, even if it's only by a couple of thousandths of an inch. The length of the scar before the balls weld themselves togehter is also a sign of how well the grease keeps the metal surfaces apart.
Now most typical NLGI # multi-purposes greases will have a 4-ball test load of around 315kg. High performance greases will often give 5-600kg, extra-high-performance greases will be around 800kg.
We found that greases with 5-600kg 4-ball numbers were not doing the job on big loaders and went to an 800kg 4-ball grease. When you might be talking of $3-5000 per pin, plus bushes, plus downtime, plus machining, etc, you can't afford to make mistakes with grease.
The relevant numbers for everything listed above should be on the spec sheet for the grease. If I couldn't find ALL of them I wouldn't even consider buying that particular grease.
I will tell one story here. I visited a mine site where they were having lots of pin troubles on big wheel loaders. They looked well-greased on the face of it, plenty of fresh grease visible, and all the diagnostics on the autolube systems showed that the pumps and injectors were all performing as they should. Head scratching time .......
I asked them " What grease are you using"
"A special grease from Mobil" was the answer
It turned out that the grease they were using was one called "Mobilgrease Special" (well it was special, it said so right there on the barrel...!)
When I looked at the tech spec for it. NO moly additive and a 4-ball weld load of 315kg ....!! Reading the spec sheet it was designed for automotive lubrication on things like a pickup truck. In fact that's how Mobil marketed it but because the customer had gone out to tender for greases accountants not maintenance pros had made the decision what lubricants to buy.
At least we found what was wrong and why they were having so many pin problems. It must have cost them close to $100,000 in parts alone before the problem was sorted.
Last edited by Nige; 06-28-2011 at 05:42 PM.
08-05-2011, 09:22 PM
hi new to the site i love it so far, i worked for a golf maintenance company we had shopped around in the grease area for the best the rollers that hold the height of cut run constantly in the morning dew anybody that said there was better and resisting water we tried finally found that chemsearch made a lithuim that held up little pricey last year we had a schaffers salesman stop and get us moved to there 238 ultra duty way better than anything we ever tried best part had to be couple weeks ago a new chemsearch sales man stopped thought he would prove the 238 mixed with water, mixing in his palm the water and grease five mins go by and hes wondering how to get it off his hands, later he returned with a sales manager that was on a ride along that day wanted to do the same test the salesman looked at his manager and says "you really don't want to do that " the manager had the most confused look on his face
08-06-2011, 11:43 AM
When the ASTM comes out with a "pound out" test then that will indicate they, and the rest of the grease lubricant industry, see any relevancy in this property for a grease. It seems only 1 or 2 companies try and sell their grease based solely on "pound out". How does "pound out" relate to the lubricitating properties of a grease?
Originally Posted by deerefan