Michigan 75AG Loader-Rear Steering Problems-One tire is angled more-HELP PLEASE

[aadoublea]

Clearing some tree's/stumps today and I backed into a steep hole with just the passenger rear tire. It was a deep hole and stopped the loader in its tracks, not that I was going very fast but it was sudden and not good. I pulled forward out of the hole and drove away to an open area. I thought I better check and make sure I hadn't broke/bent anything and apparently I did. The passenger rear doesn't turn/angle as far as the driver's side now. I've looked everything over as best as I could and see no broken/bent parts. I know next to nothing about these machines. I just inherited it from my father. Its old, and worn out but still works good enough for me. He said to check the bar that goes from one tire to the other and see if it bent and I don't think it has. Yes it has bends in it but nothing out of the ordinary. I'm wondering if one of the hydralic cylinders isn't working correctly. I'm pretty sure the tires were fairly straight when I backed into the hole if that makes a difference. Also he had me check the long arm that goes the length of the loader and connects to the top of the hub on the drivers side and it seems fine as well. Any idea's guys?

To me it seems like the passenger side cylinder steering ram isn't pulling/pushing hard enough now.


I can take pictures or video's of anything, just let me know.


Thanks,
Aaron

[aadoublea]

Clearing some tree's/stumps today and I backed into a steep hole with just the passenger rear tire. It was a deep hole and stopped the loader in its tracks, not that I was going very fast but it was sudden and not good. I pulled forward out of the hole and drove away to an open area. I thought I better check and make sure I hadn't broke/bent anything and apparently I did. The passenger rear doesn't turn/angle as far as the driver's side now. I've looked everything over as best as I could and see no broken/bent parts. I know next to nothing about these machines. I just inherited it from my father. Its old, and worn out but still works good enough for me. He said to check the bar that goes from one tire to the other and see if it bent and I don't think it has. Yes it has bends in it but nothing out of the ordinary. I'm wondering if one of the hydralic cylinders isn't working correctly. I'm pretty sure the tires were fairly straight when I backed into the hole if that makes a difference. Also he had me check the long arm that goes the length of the loader and connects to the top of the hub on the drivers side and it seems fine as well. Any idea's guys?

To me it seems like the passenger side cylinder steering ram isn't pulling/pushing hard enough now.


I can take pictures or video's of anything, just let me know.


Thanks,
Aaron

I think I figured it out. The ball joints on the end of the steering arm that connects the tires together is pretty sloppy. Looks like its dropped down some too.

[aadoublea]

Took the slop out of the tie rod ends with a little welding. Didn't fix the issue. My next guess was one of the steering cylinders was not working correctly, but I don't think thats it either. If I turn the tires to the right, the right tire angles/turns all the way like its suppose to. The left wheel however doesn't angle to the right near enough. If I turn the steering wheel to the left, the left tire angles as its suppose to and the right tire does not. The cylinder that is pushing out is working fine. The cylinder that has to retract while turning doesn't retract as far as its suppose to. Like I said before. I was backing up and forgot I had dug a 4ft by 4ft by 4 ft hole and one of the rear tires fell into it and stopped the loader in its tracks. I believe that's when the damage occurred. Is there some sort of check valve on this michigan 75 that I can adjust or replace? Or do you guys have any ideas what it could be? If it was a steering cylinder it would only affect the steering on that side. That is not the case. If I turn to the right the right tire works fine, and if I turn left the left tire turns correctly. The cylinder on the side that's doing the retracting isn't fully retracting. Hydraulic fluid hasn't been changed and was just recently contaminated with water so I changed that out(the tank, about 13 gallons) and still no change to the faulty steering. The steering and and all other hydraulics worked fine with the watered down hydraulic fluid until I drove into the hole. That hole did this poor old loaders steering in for some reason. Any ideas?

[OzDozer]

It's likely you have a busted CV joint. The CV joints are a high wear area, and basically, the weak point of the drive system.

[aadoublea]

Oh really? Like I said in my first post. I don't know the first thing about these machines. A cv joint isn't just for driving the wheel? It also affects the steering? Sorry for my ignorance.

Where is the cv joint located? This loader has what I believe toyota axles have, rapalza joints(a big ball and socket) that the tire angles on. Cv joint located inside of that or near it? Damn I need a manual on this thing. . . . so I don't have to ask such stupid questions.

[OzDozer]

A Constant Velocity Joint is a method of transferring power to a wheel that needs to be turned through an arc, such as a steer wheel.
There are two main styles - the old style uses a universal joint for the driveshaft - the newer style, as fitted to all current FWD cars uses two forged housings with about 6 grooves, and the same number of steel balls, to allow a turning movement in an arc, along with drive transfer action to the wheel.
The old style is fitted to the Michigan and uses two cup or bell-shaped forged housings, that fit, one inside the other - and these two housings are pinned top and bottom. (see pic link below)
The pinned part utilises a short pin that is usually retained by a number of bolts. There are bronze bushings or needle roller bearings inserted into one of the forgings, top and bottom, to allow the housings to rotate in a limited arc.
The drive axle is in two sections, one long one in the axle housing, and one short one in the stub axle. They are connected by a standard universal joint.
This style of CV joint comes in two types - open and closed. An open CV joint is one where the uni-joint is visible, because the forged housings are just two big exposed lugs, and you can see right through the CV joint.
In the closed type, the CV joint forged housings are larger, and comprise a polished or chrome ball section that has a seal running on it. The closed CV joint is full of oil, the open CV joint is dry.

CV joints can have the forged housing break where the pinned section is located. This happens when a chunk breaks out of the housing at the outer part of the pinned area.
The result is the CV joint will become cocked at an angle and also not turn properly. Operating a vehicle/machine with a broken CV joint will cause more serious damage, so I suggest you park her up and do some investigation.

[aadoublea]

Thank you very much for the picture. Thats what I have. I still don't understand why if I turn left the right tire doesn't turn enough and if I turn right the left tire doesn't turn enough. Why wouldn't, if I had a bad cv joint, it affect just one side, the side with the bad cv joint? I also don't hear any grinding, popping noises when turning in forward or reverse. I have parked it. I've only driven it back and forth just a little to try to diagnose the problem. Thanks!!!!!

[OzDozer]

O.K., let's go back to the start. You think you have a problem, because one tire/wheel doesn't turn as far as the other when on full lock. This is part of steer axle design.
When turning sharply, the inner steer wheel has to turn in a shorter radius arc than the outer one. If the wheels turn at the same angle when on full lock, the steer tires will scrub and drag, because they're fighting each other.
Thus, steering geometry is arranged so that when you turn the steering wheel, the outer steer wheel doesn't turn to the same angle as the inner steer wheel.
This allows the tires to track in different radiuses, so that they travel, equal to the radius of the arc they are travelling in. I hope this makes sense.

I presumed you had some serious steering difficulties after you backed into the pit. However, if you have no other problems, or strange noises, or serious wheel castor angle problems (or toe-in/toe out problems, when the loader is parked with wheels straight ahead) - then the appearance of the wheels being at different angles on full lock is not a problem, it's perfectly O.K., and part of the proper steering geometry action.

[aadoublea]

Thanks so much for the explanation. That all makes sense to me. I kind of wondered if that's how it always steered and I just never noticed until I check things out after falling in the pit. Still seems to steer fine, I couldn't tell a difference. I live alone but am having a lady friend over tomorrow night. I'll have her take a video of the loader in action and post a link on here. I'd love for you to take a look and tell me what you think. I did notice that if you reverse or go forward the wheels straighten right out. Gosh I hope you are right!!! I feel bad, my father just gave me this loader(I haven't had it a month) and I already broke it. He used it for 25 years and never broke anything major. Hey I really really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my questions.

Thanks again,
Aaron

[aadoublea]

I went out and drove it around in the dark and it seems to turn and drive perfectly fine. I think you are right. It does exactly what you said. The outer tire always angles less than the inner tire which makes perfect sense. The last two weeks I haven't driven it because I thought something was messed up but that's just the way its suppose to be!! You don't know how happy I am. I'll make a video anyways to make for 100% and post it up tomorrow evening. In the meantime here is a link to another video I have of the loader. You might want to watch it with the sound off sound you don't have to listen to my drunken commentary. http://youtu.be/5-4GpswQINY
Thanks again!

Aaron

Thanks again,
Aaron

[aadoublea]

Darn it, I just watched it on youtube and its terrible quality.