Roughest 580ck ain't moving!

[alrman]

Packrat - left you alone for a little while & look what you have done!

I have not been inside one of these for a LONG time.
I would suggest the convertor be opened up - the parts are not too expensive to reseal & if you put it back together & same leak is there - you will kick yourself.
Best to dot your i's & cross your t's in this instance.

Couple of places to look - (I've borrowed willie's pic)

1) the pump drive gear (9) has a bushing in it, if they are excessively worn, this can create leakage. Also where the bushing runs on the carrier (8) they can get a nasty wear groove, if it has a groove this requires attention.
2) where the bolts (11) for the cover, screw into the main housing - look for cracks at each drilling - this creates leakage.

#24 is a seal & i can't be certain what job it actually has - but goes without saying - do them all.

Have you had a better look at that compression fitting yet? - try to pressurize the line to see if cracked.

[packratc]

Good to hear from you Alrman! Thanks for the detailed explanation as to what could cause leaks in the converter. I'll call the dealer Monday & see what a converter seal kit costs. If there is a leak at any of the places you pointed out, would that put fluid into the bell housing at a greater rate and therefore speed up the already leaky situation? No, I haven't checked out the steel return line yet. It's just hanging there. I'm not too worried about fixing it as I think I can easily replace the whole thing if need be. I did find something that looked like small metal bits or some material ( I was worried clutch material) when I took both of those lines loose. It looked kinda like metal would sticking to the end of the lines if the lines were magnatized. But, the material, when placed between the finger & thumb and rubbed or ground, did not feel like metal grit or anything real hard.

[packratc]

Willie59, Good point you made when stating that the clutches couldn't very easily damage themselves from lack of fluid They couldn't come together to slip if there was not enough pressure to activate the cylinder to bring them together. No pressure gauge on the dash. I have one & it will be on it as it goes back together. Thanks again for the advise. Alrman, do you think the converter kits are available aftermarket which may be a better price than with a dealer? Thanks again for joining in on this project. Packratc

[alrman]

Repair kits will only be genuine - if still available, may need to buy individual items.
Yes, if problems in post #46 are present they will put fluid in bell housing (that's why I suggested to check them.....)

[packratc]

Thanks again Alrman. I'll let you know what the dealer says tomorrow. Packratc

[packratc]

,, I've just posted pics of this afternoon's activity. The first (I hope) is of the torque tube looking down onto the torque converter and it shows the gear that runs the pump. The second pic shows the pick up tube which is partially blocked and has a ripped screen. I know you all have seen similar photos in previous threads but these are so colorfull and it helps to share my pain and my many errors. Packratc

[packratc]

,, I hope these pictures are of the shuttle shift and the front plate resting on its top showing the pump which is attached to it. Of course you can see the end of the pick up tube which I think is in the upper left hand quadrant of the photo. Packratc

[packratc]

Oops, the screen on the end of the pick up tube is in the lower left quadrant of the photo. It's a nice shot of my shoes too.

[willie59]

Yep, pick up screen looks a bit messed up, looks like oil has a bit of water in it as well, is the 4 speed shifter boot in good condition?

[packratc]

, The last photo in todays comentary is the one the provokes the most question. It shows the transmission input shaft at the end of the shuttle clutch packs. On the right you should be able to see the snap ring. To the left of it are several shims, maybe 4 or 5. The manual, as I read it, says that there ought to be a minimum of .025" and a maximum of .045" between the power shuttle unit and the snap ring. Looks like I have several shims and a least an eighth of an inch of play. Do I add more shims? Is there a maximum number of shims you can add? Do you have to add shims because there's clutch disc wear? Does the fact there's too much clearance here have anything to do with the gears grinding everytime you go from neutral into a gear to use the hoe? In other words does this too much clearance keep the clutches from totally disengaging?

[packratc]

Well Rats! I got a the photos the load rigtht tonight except the one that I described a direction. The snap ring & shims are at the top. I called the dealer today & the torque converter kit is not available. I ordered the seals and gaskets individually. Haven't ordered the shims yet as I thought I'd get you all's advice first. By the way, are there similar shims in front of the shuttle? I can't find them listed and that part of the shaft is hidden from view until it's dismantled. I also ordered a new gasket for the bell housing/engine ($18). Need to remind you all that I thought early on that we were taking this thing apart wrong. Most folks, by their descriptions, leave the fuel tank & steering wheel assembly with the engine. We took it out with the torque tube. This necessitated taking it off now, it's just 4 bolts, but you have to lift it off. It's a little heavy and a lot awkward. I'm not saying that all these "wrong" moves were or have been all that bad but I just want the next guy to know that there's more than one way & so far it's not been fatal. Thanks for all your interest. Packratc

[packratc]

I have already replaced the shifter boot. The fluid is full of water due to my pressure washing it about 6 times. I've been putting oven cleaner on it to get it clean but also I want to remove the cheap paint the previous owner had put on it. The original paint on these things was pretty good stuff. Packratc

[alrman]

The manual, as I read it, says that there ought to be a minimum of .025" and a maximum of .045" between the power shuttle unit and the snap ring. Looks like I have several shims and a least an eighth of an inch of play. Do I add more shims? Is there a maximum number of shims you can add? Do you have to add shims because there's clutch disc wear? Does the fact there's too much clearance here have anything to do with the gears grinding everytime you go from neutral into a gear to use the hoe? In other words does this too much clearance keep the clutches from totally disengaging?

What you are looking for here is clearance of .025"-.045" - you need to add shims. Try to adjust to near minimum spec. The excessive movement will not affect drive, but may affect the sealing rings that seal between the shuttle & housing.

[packratc]

Thanks Alrman, I guess I'll be measuring the gap and ordering more shims. They come in three different sizes the largest of which is .010". That shim is $18 & change and the other smaller ones go down at about 16 & 14 dollars per copy. I gather from what your saying that if there ends up being 8 or 9 shims in there it won't hurt as long as the minimum clearance is achieved. I'm not sure what you mean by the "sealing rings" between the shuttle and housing. Could you point those sealing rings out by the part number in the illustration? I'd appreciate it. Also would you confirm that this means seperating the shuttle housing from the transmission and removing the shuttle from the rear of the housing. I gather I then would remove the snap ring and add the necessary shims. Would you suggest measuring the clearance while the shuttle is in place or will the same clearance be present when the shuttle assembly is out of the case? I mentioned that the gear shift grinds and at times it's hard to get in gear when starting out with the hoe after starting it in neutral. In a standard shift truck it acts like the clutch is not disengaging all the way and the clutch arm would need adjusting. How do I fix that while I'm in here or is that a matter of adjustment somewhere else? Thanks again for your sage suggestions. Packratc

[alrman]

You could cut those shims from shim stock or even from a tin can - at a pinch
These are the seal rings I mentioned - they control fwd & rev oil delivery to shuttle.
You've got it down this far packrat - I would reseal the shuttle also - it's only money & the public wants to both learn & be entertained at your expense ......