High sulphur diesel

[tuney443]

I need a savvy diesel expert here.At another forum is this Army shop foreman stationed in Iraq who is trying to be proactive regarding consequences/remedies/fixes when using Iraq's only diesel--20,000 PPB. To be specific,he has to maintain a fleet of LML Duramaxes that have been entirely stripped of all emissions garbage.He needs to know about engine seals,injectors,injector seals,pump seals,etc.anything that can be done to prevent problems or just what to expect so he can order lots of replacement parts.I already questioned him regarding logistics 101 you would think would have been ironed out already between GM and the Army but really didn't get a clear answer. Anybody?

[Nige]

In my experience high sulphur diesel will not (generally-speaking) cause any damage to engine parts other than those specifically related to emissions controls such as DPF's and the like. It may be necessary on later generation electronic engines to come up with a fuel map specifically for the locally available fuel, but in my experience that's rare. What would be more common is that the engine needs to be "Export specification" in which case it will be configured to burn the locally-available fuel, specifically the electronics won't be looking at the sensors related to the DPF.

What do the engine data plates say? Do the engines comply with TIER 3 or TIER 4 US Emissions or are they "Non-Regulated" (Export only) engines..? If they are TIER 3/4 then someone fcuked up. If they are non-regulated then usually the plate says something about the fact it's not legal to run that engine on a US Highway or words to that effect.

How many parts per million (ppm) of sulphur does the fuel contain..? Does he have a complete specification of the fuel including cetane number, total acid number, distillation results, flash point, copper strip corrosion, etc..?

When you're talking about a fleet of vehicles (how many vehicles total are we talking about?) I would have thought that things like injectors, pumps, seals, etc should be stock items anyway, just in case.

The fuel where I am is limited by local regulations to a maximum of 2,000ppm of sulphur. Generally it analyzes between 1400-1600ppm. We don't have issues so long as the engines are purchased in the correct configuration. In fact to a certain extent it's the reverse because the sulphur is a good lubricant of internal fuel system parts like pumps and injectors.

[tuney443]

In my experience high sulphur diesel will not (generally-speaking) cause any damage to engine parts other than those specifically related to emissions controls such as DPF's and the like. It may be necessary on later generation electronic engines to come up with a fuel map specifically for the locally available fuel, but in my experience that's rare. What would be more common is that the engine needs to be "Export specification" in which case it will be configured to burn the locally-available fuel, specifically the electronics won't be looking at the sensors related to the DPF.

What do the engine data plates say? Do the engines comply with TIER 3 or TIER 4 US Emissions or are they "Non-Regulated" (Export only) engines..? If they are TIER 3/4 then someone fcuked up. If they are non-regulated then usually the plate says something about the fact it's not legal to run that engine on a US Highway or words to that effect.

How many parts per million (ppm) of sulphur does the fuel contain..? Does he have a complete specification of the fuel including cetane number, total acid number, distillation results, flash point, copper strip corrosion, etc..?

When you're talking about a fleet of vehicles (how many vehicles total are we talking about?) I would have thought that things like injectors, pumps, seals, etc should be stock items anyway, just in case.

The fuel where I am is limited by local regulations to a maximum of 2,000ppm of sulphur. Generally it analyzes between 1400-1600ppm. We don't have issues so long as the engines are purchased in the correct configuration. In fact to a certain extent it's the reverse because the sulphur is a good lubricant of internal fuel system parts like pumps and injectors.

As already said,all emissions have been removed on these LML's and the only fuel is 20K ppm.He's asked GM outright this question and they can't answer they say because of liability issues.For sure he will have to significantly shorten the oil change intervals.Sulphur for sure will be great for lubricity on the fuel components.

[Nige]

Are you sure it's 20,000ppm and not 2000..?? I have never heard of even high-sulphur crude producing fuel with such a high sulphur count. I am extremely doubtful of that figure. Does he have the sulphur as a % by weight figure..?

If it's 2000ppm and he is using an engine oil that meets API CI-4 or CJ-4 I would not worry about shortening oil changes unless oil analysis suggests it's absolutely necessary.
My experience with high-sulphur (2000ppm) fuel is that modern high-spec engine oils perform fine if you run them up to the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval. Run them even a small amount past that (as an example 285 hours on an oil that should be changed every 250) and the analysis results drop off sharply.

Change oil on time is what we've found out. We have set our oil change period as 225-250 hours based on what we've seen, panic sets in if we go past 250. I'm sure if he sets his maintenance interval for engine oil & filter change based on time rather than mileage driven he should be OK - unless the people driving them have a habit of using the truck as a mobile aircon unit (parked with the engine running all the time) in which case all bets are off....

[blitz138]

If I remember right sulfur has a tendency to swell orings, it shouldn't cause a problem until you start putting low sulfur in again then you'll have your hands full.

[tuney443]

If I remember right sulfur has a tendency to swell orings, it shouldn't cause a problem until you start putting low sulfur in again then you'll have your hands full.

I seem to remember that also.I did ask him again--he is adamant it is 20,000 ppm,says it's the highest sulphur diesel on the planet.I guess the US Army will be the guinea pig in this sulphur backwards ''experiment''.

[Nige]

Ask him if he has an actual analysis or is going on heresay or what he's been told. Sorry if this appears pedantic but until I see an analysis I don't believe the 20,000ppm figure. I've also talked to some of my contacts in the fuel industry who have connections in the Middle East and they don't believe it either. The highest they ever came across in diesel was 4000ppm, rising to 10,000ppm in marine bunker fuel (HFO).

Is he planning to do engine oil analysis..? Because he'd better be even if sulphur figure is 2000ppm.

Thinking this way, there must be other late-generation engines working in the country with other owners using the same fuel. It surprises me that nothing has ever come up about this before if the sulphur was so high.

Another thing to suggest is that with very high sulphur content in the fuel it would be worth investigation if their lubricant supplier can supply a high TBN engine oil (maybe 20 TBN versus 10) to cope with the acid products resulting from combustion.

[tuney443]

Ask him if he has an actual analysis or is going on heresay or what he's been told. Sorry if this appears pedantic but until I see an analysis I don't believe the 20,000ppm figure. I've also talked to some of my contacts in the fuel industry who have connections in the Middle East and they don't believe it either.

Is he planning to do engine oil analysis..? Because he'd better be even if sulphur figure is 2000ppm.

Thinking this way, there must be other late-generation engines working in the country with other owners using the same fuel. It surprises me that nothing has ever come up about this before if the sulphur was so high.

Good points Nige.I'll try and get some answers.

[tuney443]

Brought up all your points and some of mine--again,he insists that it is 20,000ppm and has been tested as such.Also said that sulphur content in the ME varies tremendously but Iraq has the highest amount of sulfur by far.He was planning all along on doing a SOS program.That's all he said.I'll come back to this if or when he opens up more--sort of like making the horse drink at the trough.

[Nige]

--sort of like making the horse drink at the trough.

Yeah, know what you mean. Like someone asks the question but gets pissed when you answer it but it's not the answer they want to hear. My wife's a bit like that, if she asks a question and doesn't like the answer she'll keep asking the same question to different people hoping someone'll tell her different .........

[tuney443]

Yeah, know what you mean. Like someone asks the question but gets pissed when you answer it but it's not the answer they want to hear. My wife's a bit like that, if she asks a question and doesn't like the answer she'll keep asking the same question to different people hoping someone'll tell her different .........

Oh no.I should have warned you about marrying my X.

[Greg in KY]

When your wife says, "What did you say?"

It ain't cause she can't hear.