Cat 3208 Change Out Advice- 1979 IH 1900 Single Axle Dump Truck w/Allison MT653 Auto

[Scout_1969]

Looking for advice on changing out a Cat 3208 non-turbo in a 1979 International 1900 single axle dump truck with Allison MT653 auto trans.

This will be an outside, spring time project.

Background:

This is basically an off road, farm use vehicle.

Bad engine has a hole in the block.

Have a donor engine from a later model Ford cab over with manual transmission.

Bad engine is a 40 series, front sump and the donor engine is a 51Z series rear sump.

Rough measurements look like the rear sump will clear the axle.

I have some generic manuals, but nothing explaining how to change out the engine.

Truck has a front PTO

Questions:

What things should I be especially careful of?

Should I remove the radiator completely?

How does the transmission separate from engine?

Any problems keeping the rear sump? How difficult would it to be to change oil pan and pick up tube from rear to front sump?

[Scout_1969]

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Scout_1969]

Spring is just around the corner and the weather is making me think of spring.

Even just some generic how-to would be appreciated.

Anyone have any input?

[02Dmax]

When you get the bad motor out take the oil pan and sump setup off and put it on the donor engine. It SHOULD bolt right up, just make sure and inspect everything as your doing it. Take the hood and radiator off and go lean them up against a wall somewhere so they're completely out of the way and not at risk for damage. I pull the entire power train when I do a swap (meaning I leave the tranny hooked to the engine). The tranny is easy to swap to the donor engine when its out on the ground. There should be about 12 bolts around the bell housing of the tranny where it bolts to the flywheel housing of the engine, take these out after you unbolt the torque converter. I'm not sure how its set up but it should have bolts that you can get to through an access cover on the tranny and roll the crankshaft over to remove each bolt so the torque converter will seperate from the flywheel and stay on the input shaft of the tranny.

It really depends on what you have to work with, I have a service truck with a crane so I just pick the whole thing out. You may have to put a jack under the tranny and a cherry picker on the engine or something. Just be safe whatever you do, don't get under a suspended load for any reason. I'll help any way I can.

[02Dmax]

Guess I should've put those directions in chronological order but hopefully you'll get the picture.

[Nige]

I'd agree with Dmax that changing the oil pans over is the way to go. Both engines are 3208 (despite the prefix difference) so the basic block should be the same. If you PM me both of the engine Serial Numbers I can dig right down to exactly what the differences are between the two.

Also be careful when you're changing the oil pan over from one engine to the other to see if you have to move the oil pump pickup pipe to suit the new oil pan arrangement or maybe you might have to use the pipe from your existing engine. Now moving or changing the oil pickup pipe is one thing, but if the oil pumps themselves are different then I would be VERY CAREFUL about using the pump from your busted engine. You never know, an issue with the oil pump may well have caused the engine to fail in the first place. If there is no alternative than to fit the pump from the original engine then at least get it stripped down, checked, and if necessary overhauled first.

[Scout_1969]

Thanks for the responses.

There appears to be about equal clearance for the sumps to clear the front axle and the exhaust looks like it will clear, is there any other problems with leaving the rear sump on the donor engine? (I guess why do they have both other than clearance to the front axle? The rear sump truck does sit lower in the rear where the other truck set more level, where maybe its an oil pick up issue)
I ask cause of breaking the seal of the oil pan plus the oil pump, tube and pan swapping might be a little of a challenge. But I don't want to reinvent the wheel so to speak.

02Dmax- sounds like its easier to disconnect the trans mounts?, yoke? and linkage than it is to try to get to all those bolts. I know it has an access opening in the bottom of the ?bellhousing? so this may be where I can unbolt the torque converter. The oil pan on the bad engine is badly pitted so I was hoping to reuse the donor pan.

It sounds like there's no chance I could rotate the pan and oil pump/tube.

As far a lifting I plan on using my backhoe/loader.

Nige- I have the s/n off the donor but I can't find it on the bad engine. I even pulled the insulation and shield behind the starter to check the block and there where nothing. I was thinking this may indicate is was rebuilt by one of the previous owners. Is there any other way I could get identifying info from it?

Yeah good advice on the oil pump check if I need to use the bad engines pump.

[PAcattech]

Yeah good advice on the oil pump check if I need to use the bad engines pump.

Hi scout the only way to get to the oil pump on a 3208 is to remove the timming gear cover from the front of engine. so checking your pump isnt really an option. Id spent the money for a new pan gasket and change over the sump and pan to your donor very easy to do . the pan may look like it will clear axle but if its close to the axle and loading the truck will make it closer to axle one bump in the road and you might be smashin the pan

[02Dmax]

^^^^what he said^^^^ there's a reason IH put that oil pan on there the way they did. Even if it is pitted, if it still holds oil, I'd reuse the one for the application.

And yes, I take the tranny mounts loose, disconnect the driveline, and any linkage you've got there then pull the whole works out, those bolts will be easier to get at once its sitting out on the ground.

[Scout_1969]

PAcattech- it sounds like the oil pump is up in the engine a bit and not in the oil pan so I can keep the donor engines pump.

How is the pick up tube attached and can it be loosened with the oil pan removed?

02dmax & PAcattech-

Is there a chance I could rotate the donor engines oil pan and pick up tube?

What are good points to attach to the engine/trans assembly for lifting?

[oldseabee]

You are going to have to change the flywheel over. Be sure to mark the flywheel and the convertor so when you bolt it back up you are using the same mounting holes. Over time the flywheel may have a slight warp and the convertor has matched the warp. When you mount the flywheel to the new engine be sure to check the runout.

[Steve Frazier]

I'm going to throw a wrench in the works and suggest you sell that 3208 and find an IH 466 to put in there. The 466 is a much better, much more reliable engine and smokes less as well. It shouldn't be hard to find one that bolts right in to your application. The 3208 has always confused me, I'm really surprised that Caterpillar would put their name on such a piece of junk!

[Scout_1969]

OSB- you mean flex plate right? You mentioned torque converter so I think you do.

SF- I am at best a 'replicating type home mechanic' and not good at fabricating. I would entertain the 3208 to 466 swap if it's not too difficult.

The 466 is an inline 6 so I would think it is longer for starters and also the truck has a front pto. Would there be any modifications to make? What would be a good match for the 210 hp and non-turbo CAT?

[Steve Frazier]

Scout, it ought to be a bolt in with the right parts. It's such a plentiful engine it shouldn't be too hard to find a donor truck of the same model as yours. You may need to swap doghouse covers, maybe not. I'm actually surprised to hear of an IH of that vintage with a 3208, that truck is more rare than a 466 model. The 3208 was discontinued in 1999, eventually as these things blow up parts will become harder and more expensive to find, while the 466 continues in production today. If it were my truck that's the move I'd be making.

[oldseabee]

You are right, got my terminology mixed up, flywheel will have to come off and flexplate put on. It's always a good idea to put used stuff back in the same location as it came off. May not be a problem but why risk it? If you are going the 466 route, be sure that you can use your old flexplate or can get one that matches your convertor.
The other folks are right, the 3208 was a problem and parts are getting scarce. The 466 a much better choice.