They don't want the speed for moving the snow as much as they want it for driving from job to job. The ones in the big towns have jobs that are a couple miles apart and with a skid steer that can transport fast they can eliminate the need for a truck and trailer. I havent seen any with chains on around here. Nobody wants them, way to hard on the surface. Some are running snow tires.
"The new line, designed to compete with such market names as Caterpillar, Case and Bobcat, was designed, engineered and will be produced entirely in JCB’s 500,000-square-foot Savannah manufacturing facility.
The plant is expected to produce 6,000 machines this year.
“The production constraints of last year are behind us,” Patterson said. “And the market performance for this new generation of machines exceeded our expectations by a factor of three.”"
6000 machines a year? if im not mistaken john deere is only making 10,000 a year. the evil plan is already coming to fuition...
Originally Posted by JCBiron
A light touch in some machines I think is certainly a matter of choice, in something like an excavator or backhoe where the operator is largely stationary and I agree its an operator preference. However a light touch in a skid steer or CTL is not the same as an excavator. It is nearly impossible to isolate the operator from the movements of the machine in a ssl, the result of that is unintentional movement of the control handles by the operator, this combined with a lack of resistance in the handles results in unintended movement. Its not a JCB thing or a CASE thing its just fact. I dont believe it is even a matter of preference. A skid steer needs a certain amount of resistance in the handles. I was testing this today working in some tight areas, having any lighter of a touch in my machine and I am not interested. As it is you must very lightly manipulate the controls when running over rough ground around sensitive objects. Thats can be a challenge given that your stabilizing yourself with your hands to some extent, at least thats your first instinct. The amount of phycial resistance in the control handles is your shock absorber of sorts to prevent unwanted activation of the control handles.
Let's look at it from two extremes......Take an old NH machine. Those things were great for when you had an itch on your nose (still laughing at that one Dave), but if you got on some rough terrain, and tried to keep a tight hold of the handles, you would literally jerk yourself right out of the seat, because as you were trying to hold consistent pressure on the joysticks, they were pushing back equally hard.
Now, take an EH/Servo machine. Because of the lighter effort, you are able to utilize the arm/wrist rests to stabilize your forearm and use your wrist to control the machine. Much easier than trying to keep your entire arm stationary. My point was that in MY OPINION, the slightly lighter feel of the JCB controls is less fatiguing (sp?) than the Case EH controls. I understand your point regarding the need for some resistance and the role it plays in controlling the machine on rough terrain, and I also understand that you don't need a lesson on the difference between NH mech. controls and joysticks, just trying to explain that my argument wasn't whether or not joystick controls need resistance, it was that my opinion was the JCB servo was easier on the wrists over the long haul. I'm sure, however, that after running either for any extended amount of time, one would get used to the level of resistance.
FINALLY, after 4 years of waiting got the JCB 205!! Put 20 hours on it and it IS everything I thought it was going to be, and JCB will clearly pass much of the competition in machine sales. Right off the bat JCB will become a major player wherever there is a good dealer. Everyone who comes to see the machine loves it. Look for competitors to start copying JCB ideas like the meshless bulletproof windows, the modular cab, and yes, even the one arm design. After using the JCB I feel like anyone who would buy a competitive machine would have to be crazy, there is just no comparison between them. Im sure lots of people will, once again, disagree with my comments, but like years ago when I began to comment, this will all be true. The e/h controls are very good, they do not feel like they are electric at all, they just feel natural. The entire machine is very strong in every way; JCB should be very proud of what they have accomplished.
You are certainly a prophet in your own mind Dave. Glad you like your new machine.
Congrats Dave. It's been a long time coming, glad to hear you are happy with your new machine. A couple pics wouldn't hurt!
Meshless bullet proof windows..... Gosh Dave- where do you operate?? My biggest fear was a bees nest. Maybe I have it better than I thought.
HA! Yeah, Dave, "bullet-proof" might be a bit of a stretch.....that is, unless you order the "Ghetto Superstar" package for an extra $3500. In addition to the bullet-proof windows (which are limo-tinted, of course), that gets you hydraulic suspension, spinner wheels, a bumpin' stereo, and an arm-rest-mounted holster that will secure anthing up to a .45 cal. (.45 cal NOT included).
(aside from the sarcasm above, the windows are laminated safety glass....think "car windshield")
ah yes, good times making jokes about the jcb...
well i got 50 hours on the jcb. jcb has one hell of a machine on their hands. if anyone drove one for 50 hours i would be very surprised if they preferred a competitive machine.
the side entry is sweet.
the giant quiet cab is sweet.
as far as visibility to the right side of the machine, they have their geometry figured out and that boom is just never in your way when compared to other machines.
the whole argument of wanting more tension on the electric controls like case and bobcat have is bogus. the light feel on the joysticks is the only way to have it. i am quite surprised with the jcb controls and how sweet they are. i would say accuracy is good right down to 1/8 inch. i would never have believed they are electric if i did not know better, and from the limited experience i have with pilot controls, i would say these are better. they are smooth as glass.
the iso controls are sweet, no need for the pattern changer.
i also like the seamless shifting from low to high. no jerk and no stalling you can shift while turning and control wont be effected. i am also impressed that as far as controlling the machine there seems to be almost no difference between low and high range as far as accuracy.
Glad you like it Dave and it is going to serve your needs. You're going to be in a select group of probably far less than 500 JCB SSL owners in North America for 2012JCB ought to be treating you like a rock star!!!
Where did you get the 500 number? They ARE treating me like a rockstar, always calling me to see how i'm doing; i'm always calling them. Its a sweet deal, the way a deal should be. They are churning out new skid steers as fast as they can and that is not fast enough. As I stated before demand for the new machines is 3 times higher than it was projected to be. The local dealer said he has 8 on order for stock and sold 25 of them so far.Glad you like it Dave and it is going to serve your needs. You're going to be in a select group of probably far less than 500 JCB SSL owners in North America for 2012
Did I mention I got a 5 year 5000 hour bumper to bumper no deductible warranty?
2011 Skid steer sales were finalized at about 27,000 units and JCB didn't even rate a measurable percentage unless grouped under others which comprises of Komatsu, Volvo, JCB, Hyundai, Hitachi, Doosan and a couple of others such as Bulldog. Others accounted for about 2%, or 725 units. The 2012 market was expected to grow by 10% or another 2,700 units and considering that Bobcat, CAT, Deere and CNH made up 87% and Gehl/Mustang eat the last 11% up I'd say JCB is gonna be hard pressed to surpass the total sum of 725 that currently makes up "others", now including a Terex SSL (marginal IMO).
It's good you like the dealer in your area although having been a Bobcat salesman in the Madison area in my older days I wouldn't go out of my way to say De Forest, Ritchie Implement or Yes JCB are real players in the Wisconsin compact market. I'd give Ritchie better props for selling IH Ag. I am very happy that your dealer is treating you right.
Last edited by Digdeep; 07-30-2012 at 06:18 PM.
last i heard jcb was making 6000 skid steers a year. that was large frame only. so i assume their production has at least doubled with the release of the small frames. last i heard deere was making 10,000 skid steers a year. sounds like jcb is doing pretty good to me based on what they are trying to accomplish. its only a matter of time now. i believe the milwaukee jcb dealer said he figures he has over 20% of the local skid steer sales.
i sat in a new deere skid steer today. its really not fair to compare the 2 machines. the visibility with the jcb is out of this world, you cant see a thing outta the deere. and whats with the joysticks not having an arm rest? (besides the lap bar) it is key to have your joystick right on your arm rest. the ergonomics of the jcb r sweet.
did i mention fuel consumption was 1.2 gal/hr on my first tank of fuel?
granted, if your doing strictly demo work or working in the forest, i might recommend a machine with the least glass and the most steel near the tires. our bobcat is unstopable if your using the whole machine as a giant demo ball; i would tend to get real nervous taking the jcb into one of those situations.
Dave...I think someone also wants to buy your corn for only $3.50 a bushel too. It's good to be proud of your machine, and I'm happy you're satisfied, but you also have to be realistic about the current position of JCB in the US market. I know they're trying hard, but so is everyone else. Nobody is just going to give them the business.
Tell me how JCB could go from selling a total of around 200 machines in 2010 (150 less than Komatsu) to selling more than 6000 (just large frame)? Consider that the US market was 30k machines for arguments sake (actually just under), and consider that half of JCB's sales went to the the US market. That would give them 10% market share in North America with only their large frame. That isn't going to happen anytime soon Dave I can promise you that. Gehl/Mustang have a much more comprehensive dealer network compared to JCB and together they have about 12% of the North American market (both large and small machines), and it's taken them decades to get there with a much better legacy reputation than JCB in the US.
The global market was approximately 65k units in 2011 and that would mean the JCB has would have about a 8% global skid steer market share. That's not happening anytime soon either Dave. maybe your source thinks he can tell you anything because you'll take it hook line and sinker.
How can Yes JCB "figure" he has 25% market share? His JCB sales rep will have access to the same industry numbers that I get from my bobcat contact so he should know within a few % of what his real market share is. I was over in Milwaukee with buddies for a weekend of drinking and fishing out of Racine right after July 4th and I didn't drive by every job site, but I can tell you that Yes JCB does not have even close to 25% market share unless all their machines are hidden.
Last edited by Digdeep; 07-31-2012 at 10:04 AM.
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