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Thread: Motor scraper or pull scraper for pond build

  1. #1
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    Motor scraper or pull scraper for pond build

    Need to move about 25K yards about 1000ft. The big question is if a motor grader can actually haul on any reasonable incline or if we need to solely be looking at a pull scraper with pull tractor? Approx area is 1-1.5acres and 10-12ft deep. We can ramp the ends and will finish shape with an excavator. Soils is loam soil, no rock. I have no seat time on a scraper but vids don't look promising on motor scrapers. They REALLY need the rear wheels driven to be any good IMO but one can do the job, that seems an easier purchase for us.

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    This is the kind of work I specialize in. Would go in with my D8K's pulling Cat No. 80 Pans. A short hop of 1,000 feet makes this set up very cost effective. If the going got a bit tough would put D7 behind to push while loading. Also need a dozer to spread the material as it is placed by scrapers. I don't understand how you think a "motor grader" is going to do anything on this job. Grader is great for finish work and placing aggregate but nothing else. For finish shaping I would use a small dozer with six way blade.

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    Greg, ima thinkn he meant to say "motor scraper" instead of grader.
    I treat everybody the same...... I give em all grief.

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    TS14 can be picked up for a low price. they can move a lot of dirt fast and cheap. It would work get in that soil. After the job you will have it for other work. A plus side to the terexs is they are easy to work on and parts are easy to come by. just my 2cents on it.

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    Yeah a ts-14 is a good choice, I'd a well maintained "b-d" model the g's are electrical nightmares, or at least the ones i was around were. If your going with a wheel scraper, better figure on having a decent sized dozer handy, both for loading and if you bogg one. I'd rent the largest 6 way dozer I could find, large d-6 or deere 850 w/ rippers that way you can finish with it and push um, and rip if you need to.

    From experience, 2,000yds per day isn't outa line for that type of work.

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    In engineering school we learned to take people at their word gramps. Granted what was said didn't make much sense.

    Some places it can get pretty wet at 10.0 to 12.0 feet from ground water. If it rains while the job is in progress you are royally screwed too because when doing pond like that there is no place for the water to go. You will more than likely need a push cat before this one is done if using rubber tire machine.

    Job like this I will stick with Cat and pan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Some places it can get pretty wet at 10.0 to 12.0 feet from ground water.
    Some places around here, you can get 9.0 to 11.0 feet of water at 10.0 to 12.0 feet from ground water.
    "Don't sweat the petty things, and, don't pet the sweaty things." That's what I live by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitch504 View Post
    Some places around here, you can get 9.0 to 11.0 feet of water at 10.0 to 12.0 feet from ground water.
    Just exactly what did you just say..."? I never went to engineering skool. What'd he just say Greg?
    I treat everybody the same...... I give em all grief.

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    Got me on that one gramps. Must be more of that southern English we don't always understand in the chat room.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Some places it can get pretty wet at 10.0 to 12.0 feet from ground water.
    Quote Originally Posted by mitch504 View Post
    Some places around here, you can get 9.0 to 11.0 feet of water at 10.0 to 12.0 feet from ground water.
    I simply replaced greg's "pretty wet" with 9-11 feet of water, saying that in places here, rather than hitting water 10-12 feet down, you hit water a foot down, and it fills as fast as you dig.

    Around here, you don't dig ponds w/ pans, you use a trackhoe and a big pump.
    "Don't sweat the petty things, and, don't pet the sweaty things." That's what I live by.

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    After that I will say that no kind of scraper is going to work unless somebody comes up with a way to make one float which is the last time I checked against the laws of physics.

    You are right. Trackhoe, big pump and some kind of off road hauler.

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    The question at hand here is if the motor scraper would even get enough traction and enough power to climb out of a pond dig? Or does this push a guy more towards a pull pan and tractor? I like the integrated style of the motor scraper but heard a LOT of stories about them not getting the job done. I just don't want to waste my time/money here. Are there no motor graders with the rear wheels driven? Seems that would be a huge improvement.

    Upon closer review of the Terex machines, it seems they are push/pull machines. I am not sure which are and which aren't but I know the old CAT 613s and such are not.
    Last edited by fastline; 10-28-2011 at 10:35 AM.

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    A motor scraper should climb out of the hole just fine depending on how steep the slope is, but they are helpless in the mud. The point Greg is trying to make (in his down his nose engineering manner) (no offense Greg, had a bad time with engineers this month) is that it is just as important to know wether there is groundwater present as it is to know about rock. It affects your choice of equipment greatly. In good conditions a scraper is way more effecient, but with an excavator and rough trucks you can move just about anything.

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    We have test holes in the area. Water table will be between 20-25ft. We will be digging to about 12ft at the most. I would expect moist soil due to the soil type but certainly not filling up the hole.

    I had another dirt hog we know bring up a point that the paddle scrapers do a good job of dragging the soil up with the paddles but the pull pans require brute force to push all the dirt up. The rear wheel drive machines sure look appealing but also look like a maintenance nightmare. I guess if an old CAT motor scraper will do the job, that would be great news!

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    if it was my job I would use a big excavator and some Volvo articulated dump trucks. That way everyone is at ground level so no worries about water in the hole

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