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Thread: compact loader vs skid steer

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by laketreefarm View Post
    I have used both and a compact wheel loader will outwork a skid in almost every situation except deep mud. Wheel loaders are a lot more operator friendly and will last years longer in daily use. I have 4 wheel loaders and my oldest is a 40+ year old Waldon that's a tank and still works every day.
    I would agree in general, but I have found that small compact loaders (Gehl, Wacker, etc) are almost worthless in snow removal on concrete/asphalt. The front end is so light that the rear wheels just keep going straight - of course chains, fluid and wheel weights help offset this problem.

    Small articulated wheel loaders are also less stable on slopes because the CG moves around so much. Not a problem for good operator's, but a potential BIG problem for the inexperienced. I had one operator who was my best driver, ~20 yrs old with >300hrs on the machine, lay it over on the side. It may look like a toy but it can still bite you! Found out the hard way why I always made them wear their seat belt!

    ISZ

  2. #17
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    Another claim at being first

    Perhaps one of the most significant milestones in the evolution of the wheel loader was the introduction of the articulated frame. Mixermobile Manufacturers in Portland, Oregon first pioneered this technology in 1953 with the Scoopmobile Model LD-5,[9] In 1944, Hough went on to manufacture a loader with the first hydraulically actuated bucket tilt. This gave the machine the ability to control dumping and the operator could approach a bank in low gear and scoop a full bucket by tilting the bucket back during loading.[10] In 1947, Hough would advance wheel loader development once again when the company developed the world's first four-wheel drive hydraulic wheel loader the HM Model.[11] The model is still considered the forerunner for the modern wheel loader.

    Mixermobile Manufacturing can be credited with introducing the first wheel loaders with hydraulic motors when it developed the Model H wheel loader in 1952 and the Model HP wheel loader in 1957. These loaders had a single centrally mounted bucket arm.[12]

    The Tractomotive Corp., founded by Van Dobeus, was another company to introduce the hydraulic wheel loader to the U.S. market. This involved fastening a hydraulic wheel mechanism with hydraulic power to the bucket crowd. This development transformed the wheel loader virtually from a re-handling machine to a digging machine.[13]

    ISZ

  3. #18
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    Articulated history

    Karl Schaeff company was formed in 1919 to manufacture mining equipment in Germany They first produced steam powered excavators. In 1936 they produced the first articulated loader for use in coal mines. Currently their are the 3rd largest company in Germany and merged with Terex in 2001. The Schaeff line is now all branded Terex. That said the company has outgrown it's ability to service or have enough dealers that are familiar with all their product lines, now over 200 companies. They just bought ASV compact loaders and Royer Screeners in 2008.
    45 years of carving dirt, building legacy buildings and landworks, like a Roman my ancestors will see my work on this planet and either a marvel or decry my stupidity. How many can say they changed earth for the better?

  4. #19
    Senior Member oldtanker's Avatar
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    http://www.bobcat.com/our_company/50th/products

    The Skid Steer was fist made in the 50's by the Keller brothers in thier blacksmith shop for a local turkey farmer. The Otter Tail County Museum, Fergus Falls Mn. currently has that machine.
    The first Skit Steer (4X4) as we know them today was produced under the Melroe name after they partnered with the Kellers. I owned the 6th one off the line produced in 1960. I know this because the grandkids bought it from me to restore and place in a Bobcat museum. No way of knowing if it was the first 4X4 becuase at the time they produced both the 200 and 400 on the same line and they were numbered as they came off the line. The company didn't keep good records at the time.


    Rick
    Last edited by oldtanker; 10-26-2010 at 11:41 AM. Reason: correction
    Steel on steel!

  5. #20
    Member laketreefarm's Avatar
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    machine history

    Last three posts were important histories of the equipment we all use today.
    Maybe we should add a forum for machine histories? I remember first seeing and then testing a Melroe skidsteer in the 1960's at the West Virginia State Fair. Rough riding and noisy but they could dig! On small jobs could run circles around my JD 350. made me reconsider what I should be using. I bought a AC 540 all hydro articulated in 1975 w/dropoff hoe to replace my venerable JD 350 and I was sold on articulated machines from that point on. We now run 5 and a Muck.
    45 years of carving dirt, building legacy buildings and landworks, like a Roman my ancestors will see my work on this planet and either a marvel or decry my stupidity. How many can say they changed earth for the better?

  6. #21
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    I got a Waldon 500 articulated wheel loader and a ASV 4810 tracked skidsteer.
    The waldon (ancient)is build like a tank and will prob outlast the ASV. Its not to bad pushing snow with tire chains on the wheels,I find it very handy for jobs in tight places and inside buildings as it is only 4' wide and has lots of visabillity,it wont tear up the ground as a skidsteer will but is very rough riding on uneven ground.Mine lifts a tonne easy and has lots of pushing power.But it slower than the ASV
    It prob helped that i put a 140 hp 6.2 diesel in it.

    The ASV is mostly used on the brush cutter and mulcher,it moves much better on rough terrain than the waldon but maintenance cost are high(tracks and rollers)

    They both have their uses
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  7. #22
    Member laketreefarm's Avatar
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    Waldon loader

    Bison I've got a Waldon 5000 too identical to yours. I added a skid quick mount plate and it's got the original Ford diesel engine which has been rebuilt once. How's you get the 6.2 diesel to match up to the pump? I've pretty well been advised by almost everyone I've talked to that the ASV track system is a maintenance problem and got the choice down to a Deere, Cat and Takeuchi.
    45 years of carving dirt, building legacy buildings and landworks, like a Roman my ancestors will see my work on this planet and either a marvel or decry my stupidity. How many can say they changed earth for the better?

  8. #23
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    Laketreefarm,if you look closely you can see the quik mount on the waldon,i build it myself,i think it is superiour to the skid mount.

    The orig vane pump was wore out.I put a commercial stackable pump on it,50 and 30 gal/min.I made a adaptor plate to mount it to the bellhousing of the 6.2 and it is driven by a splined shaft bolted to the flywheel and a matching coupler sleeve to the pump shaft.

    Any track system can be high maintenance.
    It depends on how one uses them, I think Cat uses the same system as ASV
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  9. #24
    Junior Member AKRentalMan's Avatar
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    Nice fabwork Bison!

    Best use for a compact loader is a one man show landscape in the summer/snow removal in the winter operation. The guy runs a Cat 906 and zips around town from job to job plowing parking lots ranging in size from residential to the local sears. He has a set of mounted turf tires for it also that make it almost zero disturbance to existing lawns for building retaining walls and such.

    Visibility is the vastly superior compared to skidsteers.

  10. #25
    Member laketreefarm's Avatar
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    Compact loader vs skidsteer

    Well folks I demoed and looked at over 10 different machines and for this years purchase and to qualify for the 100% tax deduction expiring soon, we bought a Takeuchi CL-60 as a replacement for one of our Terex SCL 515's. For the first time in our memory we were offered a mid-size 14,000 loader for less than a large TL-250 track skidsteer. The dealers are cutting prices to dealer cost to sell machines in this economy. Even more of a surprise was to get it with hydraulic tool mount system, HD forks, HD bucket, extra skid steer conversion adapter, full cab and H-flotation tires all for under 50K.
    The previous post mentioned the ease a CL wheel loader moves around job to job. We agree and even more importantly that it's transport agility on it's own wheels is the very low maintenance of those very same wheels. No tracks and rollers to wear out, 2-3000 hrs. on a set of tires, better traction on rough terrain as the frame twists and with limited slip and locking available on both axles has lots of pushing power on the ground plus superior lifting power with bucket or forks. The only situation I would want a skid track loader is on a slope with wet ground. Now I'm on the hunt for deal on a Optimal 1400 55" tree spade to mount on our new loader.
    45 years of carving dirt, building legacy buildings and landworks, like a Roman my ancestors will see my work on this planet and either a marvel or decry my stupidity. How many can say they changed earth for the better?

  11. #26
    Senior Member stuvecorp's Avatar
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    I like the small wheel loaders and have plowed with them but I think a big skid is better for how I roll. It gets to be a tougher arguement seeing some of the used prices for the small loaders. There is some jobs where a small loader would work good but I wouldn't want to grade with one although it could be done.

    Laketreefarm, that sounds sweet on your TK loader. Would like to see and hear about it more as I've never seen the TK loaders, but have ran the Cat 906 and Case 221/321.

  12. #27
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    Talking Takeuchi CL 60

    We chose the Takeuchi over Terex, Deere, Cat, Kubota, JCB and New Holland for the following reasons:
    The engine access was supurb. Standard warrenty of 2 years. Instead of having a pivoting rear axle the CL 60 has a center pivot as part of the articulation which makes it more stable on slopes, puts the pivot up where it won't get dirty and is real easy to maintain, allows the entire front carriage to pivot instead on the entire machine as it crosses rough ground. Manual locking differentials on both front and back locks up all 4 wheels at the touch of the joystick button, gives real good breakout power. Hose pathway from front to rear was above the articulated joint, so easy to change out the hose and very protected where as some of the other machines had hoses running through or under the center joint thus prone to failure, The creep control is standard and hydraulically metered where all the other machines was a $2000 extra option, not available, or actually a disk brake on the drive-shaft to slow the machine for creep or inching and thus wearing the brake out. Very strong hydraulic pin mount bucket coupler rated at 10K more than twice as strong as a standard skid mount coupler. Came standard with a very HD digging 1.5 yd. digging bucket with most of the others supplied a HD bucket only as an option. 22+ GPM (can be adjusted higher) standard Aux valve flow is as good as many of the other optional hi-flows.Came standard with very nice quiet cab with excellent visibility. Standard 4 front halogen lights and two rear lit up 270+ degrees, some of the other loaders only offered small little backup lights and extra cost to get big lights. Very HD solid 1" loader arms with nice parallel lifting action. 8500 working load and 10K plus tipping load gave big loader capacity in a compact machine. Dealer threw in 10K quick mount forks and hi-flotation industrial grade tires to close the deal. We ordered a skid mount plate to quick coupler adapter also made by Takeuchi so we can use all our existing skid mount tools with the Takeuchi mount system. The auto brakes and joystick button direction changes were flawless with no sudden jerks we experienced on several other loaders we demo'd. I'll have to work with it some before I can report more of it's abilities on slopes, digging and if it has any bugs the engineers missed. We ordered the tires foam filled as we plan to use the machine in demo work and brush clearing with a shredder when it's not on landscape and snow plowing jobs. Best of all we get a 100% deduction we can save for 5 years and write this machine off in any year we want as a normal business expense.
    45 years of carving dirt, building legacy buildings and landworks, like a Roman my ancestors will see my work on this planet and either a marvel or decry my stupidity. How many can say they changed earth for the better?

  13. #28
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    ive operated both. we have a T190 bobcat and ive operated a 902 CAT. skid steers are better for final grading and landscape jobs and are really handy because they can of course turn on a dime. a compact wheel loader would be better loading and unloading stuff and moving stuff. as for tracks vs tires on a skid steer i like tracks more. they dont tear up the ground near as much, you dont have to replace them as often, and you cant get flat tires. but tracks suck when you have to plow snow. they dont have any grip and just slide around.

  14. #29
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    I'm a water and sewer contractor. I do a lot of HDD. I just purchased a JD 304J. We have close to 2000 hrs on it. The cost is higher than a skid but it will lift more travel faster and is much more comfortable to sit in for 10 hrs / day. I think they will last twice as long as a skid or CTL also. Many of the skids I see are pretty much beat by about 3000 hrs. I orginally looked at the 244J but I found a pretty good deal on teh 304. It has a 1.4 yd bucket. I have an adapter plate for all skid steer attachments. I have a power rake that I use on the 304J. You can see it much better than if it was mounted on a skid.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by moore View Post
    ive operated both. we have a T190 bobcat and ive operated a 902 CAT. skid steers are better for final grading and landscape jobs and are really handy because they can of course turn on a dime. a compact wheel loader would be better loading and unloading stuff and moving stuff. as for tracks vs tires on a skid steer i like tracks more. they dont tear up the ground near as much, you dont have to replace them as often, and you cant get flat tires. but tracks suck when you have to plow snow. they dont have any grip and just slide around.
    Are you sure about that?

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