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Thread: another 963C problem (drive)

  1. #16
    Senior Member Cmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnout View Post
    I'm sure you had a sigh of relief when you saw clean filters. I know our mechanic cringes when he hears the words 973 and drivetrain in the same sentence. I fired up my 973 on saturday morning all seemed well. the usual drone and tick of the C9 on a cold morning. I jumped in her after her 30 minute warm up and noticed a very large cloud of blue smoke coming through the fan. So I shut her down and I could smell some serius burnage. Apparently my ignition sticks and the starter never disengaged and I burned up a starter. I got talking to the tech and its the 4rd starter in the last year on this unit. So he replaced the ignition itself and all is well....along with what im sure is a very expensive starter.
    So your mechanic bought four new starters before he considered looking for the root cause of the problem? I bet your boss loves him!

  2. #17
    Senior Member powerjoke's Avatar
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    lol, yeah bet that's right.

    I am surprised it lasted 30minutes though

    on a more serious note though, wonder why the mechanic wouldnt try to figure out why it had became standard procedure to tighten the tracks, change the teeth, change the oil, change the starter. lol

    i got an old 963 (21Z) that just went through the shop and i spent 3G on the trans because of a steering issue and the Dealer told me that they was still diagnosing the problem, i told them that if they hadnt figured it out by now to pull the cord and i would send a truck after it.....well, we finally got it my shop yesterday, it wouldnt pull itself off the trailer without giving up on one side and trying to jump off the side of the detach..it was like one side was free-wheeling, well it took me about 2 minutes(including warmup ) to figure out it has a drive problem such as a planetary,axle or a speed reducer, the part i dont get is the thing is growling like crazy outta the left rear corner.....how in the hell they could interperet that into a trans problem i'll never know

    Anymore if I cant field repair something i am going to have it shipped home, these outa state CaT dealers quickly making me lose faith!

    Pj

  3. #18
    Senior Member powerjoke's Avatar
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    One more thing,

    While CaT was here yesterday i had them pull the codes off of an older 953C (2ZN) and it showed up 124 occurances of XXXX.XX(I forget the number) but the description was "throttle indicator voltage high". and it seems like the motor over-revs a little bit but still only show's 2350rpm, i cant imagine why it would have a TPS on it if it's a mechanical motor. I hate to keep bothering you guys but does this ring a bell with anyone?

    I aint too worried about it, it seems like it isnt bothering anything

    Pj

  4. #19
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    First of all thanks for advices and i am really happy for powerjoke who find his problem...My machine hasnt problems...work good and fast...push good too...this codes i find when i push the button who shows the rpm in monitor and i saw this four codes...135.07 in this code i find the sensor cut and i replace...maybe sensors doesnt work???what hydraulic oil use for pumps???I saw in manual and i use 10W....

  5. #20
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    Powerjoke, So you ended up replacing a forward solenoid and then calibrating the whole lot?

    The xxx.x , could it have been "CID 0465 Limit Switch (Throttle Lever)"?
    It's the high/low idle switch, probarly worn out.

    Better sit down when you price the final drive parts, I rebuilt a complete finaldrive on a 953 a while ago, it had a seal failure and then they ran it dry for a looong while until the gears inside no longer engaged eachother basically, carnage is a fitting word. It even destroyed the splines on the drive motor shaft.

  6. #21
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    Nikos, if you dont see "serv code" at the same time as the codes they are stored and not active and no longer indicate a problem.

    10W hydraulic oil is good.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Cmark's Avatar
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    Hey Powerjoke.

    Per eriksson is probably right on the code referring to the throttle lever limit switch, but be aware that "voltage high", in Caterpillar's world, usually means an open circuit. In other words it may be a faulty switch or it may be a break in the wiring to the switch.

    The throttle lever switch and engine speed sensor are used by the transmission ECM to control the load the transmission applies to the engine.

    As for your 21Z, be cautious before diagnosing a noisy rear end as a failed final drive. It may be a faulty drive motor. I've been caught out by this one before

    Check it by attaching a good accurate pressure gauge to the motor case drain test port. Run the engine at full RPM. Anything above 3psi means a faulty motor. If you get less than 3psi, repeat the test with the track turning. Again, more than 3psi means a faulty motor.

    Note that as far as I know, this procedure only applies to the non-electronic hydrostatic track loaders.
    Last edited by Cmark; 10-06-2009 at 04:55 PM. Reason: Typo

  8. #23
    Senior Member Burnout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmark View Post
    So your mechanic bought four new starters before he considered looking for the root cause of the problem? I bet your boss loves him!
    We actually have about 20 mechanics and this machine has been living 5hrs north of E-dot in Fort MacMurray for the last year and a half. They rotate mechanics up north so they may not have tried diagnosing the problem so much as just replacing it and getting to it later. 1 mech. for 30pcs of equipment is stretching it sometimes.

    This 973 is one of the problem childs of the fleet for us. It's just hit 5000hrs which means warranty is up. The machine was shipped back to the city because of an incredibly loud whine from the HPCU unit. They couldn't get the machine to replicate the prob in our shop so they changed all the filters and fluids and shipped it to me since my unit is down for electrical glitches again. At the shop when the machine was being washed the guy in the wash bay actually managed to cut both fanbelts with the washer and they also found out the bushings for the cooling fan were shot to crap. They also found a 1/4" gap in a joint in the intake before the turbocharger, the hydrostat unit has been run dry of oil once or twice apparently, it doesn't track in a straight line and the engine has a hard time starting in cooler weather. I am simply supposed to beat on this thing so we can break it then get any warranty issues fixed up on her.

    Anyone who tells you the 973C's are trouble free is on some really good drugs. I could write for hours the various problems with our 13 973C's. Each one has its own sob story. Sadly the machine I have has the longest sob story.

  9. #24
    Senior Member powerjoke's Avatar
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    I havent cracked into the 21Z machine yet but will keep HEF informed on that little fiascoe lol

    I will check into the throttle error just next time i have a free compitent hand.

    the attention today went towards the governer of the 2DS,....here is a governor gut's pic . nothing busted loose or missing, so i am hoping the ill reving gutless turd's problem lies in the governer, partly because its already off and partly 'cause i am tired of screwing with it lol. i am going to send the governor to the "Dean Engine Systems" group and have them bench it........fuel getting to the unit, no bubbles in or out of the unit etc. 40-69PSI fuel, on ill-rev and powerless moment (many of them) you can take a screw driver and pry back the rack lever and machine revs on up and does what its supposed to, i am thinking maybe a rack problem or a sticky governer.......but since the problem is hit or miss and thier is more moving parts in the governor that is why we started where we did.....what do you all think?

    Pj
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Cmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerjoke View Post
    I havent cracked into the 21Z machine yet but will keep HEF informed on that little fiascoe lol

    I will check into the throttle error just next time i have a free compitent hand.

    the attention today went towards the governer of the 2DS,....here is a governor gut's pic . nothing busted loose or missing, so i am hoping the ill reving gutless turd's problem lies in the governer, partly because its already off and partly 'cause i am tired of screwing with it lol. i am going to send the governor to the "Dean Engine Systems" group and have them bench it........fuel getting to the unit, no bubbles in or out of the unit etc. 40-69PSI fuel, on ill-rev and powerless moment (many of them) you can take a screw driver and pry back the rack lever and machine revs on up and does what its supposed to, i am thinking maybe a rack problem or a sticky governer.......but since the problem is hit or miss and thier is more moving parts in the governor that is why we started where we did.....what do you all think?

    Pj
    When the rack is fitted to the head, it is possible to install it's mounting feet wrong. Each foot has a small peg that locates in a hole in the head and if the peg isn't located properly, the rack binds and won't rotate freely. You may want to check for this.

    Or it may be a governor problem as you suspect.

  11. #26
    Senior Member powerjoke's Avatar
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    Machine done and DONE!.

    it was the governer, I made 3 adjusments.

    1 (top) adjust how soon the governer can request full fuel out of the rack

    2 (mid) adjust max RPM

    3(bot) adjust max fuel

    machine is 100% now and is well within the spec's of rpm drop and rise, etc.

    all of these except the #1 is adjustable from the "welch" plug located on the side of the governer. however i would suggest taking your time and paying attention to what your doing, this machine was low on rpm it had less than 1/2 the HP it shoulda had, and would not always rev to high idle in less than 45 seconds. the governor was verry out of adjustment. and it took 1 turn on screw #1, and 2 turns on #2 and 1 1/2 on #3 so if you should chose to adjust one yourself, just take your time

    Pj
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  12. #27
    Senior Member powerjoke's Avatar
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    incase someone was wondering,.....the top one is the fuel screw ...........oh and OUT is more fuel!

    Pj
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  13. #28
    Senior Member powerjoke's Avatar
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    what would a 963 thread be without a pic of a 963? lol

    Pj
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