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Thread: Question about fluids

  1. #1
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    Smile Question about fluids

    Morning, everyone. Was wondering if a generic trans/hydraulic fluid found at your local Tractor Supply would make a suitable replacement for Case TCH fluid (now superceded by Hy-Tran, I hear). The service manual for my 580 SE calls for the TCH but it's a good $30 more per bucket than the other.

    Also, I was curious if regular all season hydraulic fluid would be safe to use for the loader/backhoe hydraulics. My manual calls for the TCH there also, but I've heard it isn't really necessary for those systems.

    Any thoughts? Sorry if this' been asked a gazillion times, searching on here didn't turn up much.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Super Moderator willie59's Avatar
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    I'd say you wouldn't have a problem using a good quality AW hyd oil in the hyd system. But the drivetrain, I'd stay with TCH. I have worked on some Case 580 hoes that had universal tractor/trans fluid in them and they had brake chatter. After draining the tractor/trans fluid, re-fill with TCH, repeat once or twice, brake chatter went away.
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    Thanks for the helpful info, ATCO.

    I went over to TSC and found one of their Travellers house brands to be TCH (MS-1210, JIC145) compliant, so I'll give it a shot and see how it goes.

    While I was there I also found some cheapo basic hydraulic fluid named Accel ($24 per bucket), but I think for now think I'll play it safe and use the Travellers in the hydraulics as well.
    Last edited by seagull369; 09-24-2009 at 10:26 PM.

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    Super Moderator willie59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagull369 View Post
    Thanks for the helpful info, ATCO.

    I went over to TSC and found one of their Travellers house brands to be TCH (MS-1210, JIC145) compliant, so I'll give it a shot and see how it goes.

    While I was there I also found some cheapo basic hydraulic fluid named Accel ($24 per bucket), but I think for now think I'll play it safe and use the Travellers in the hydraulics as well.
    Yeah, I'd stay away from the "cheapo" fluids. I tried a lesser cost brand called Super S. When I emptied a bucket in a machine, I looked in the bucket through the spout, and there was some kind of residue at the bottom of the bucket. And I'm thinking...that can't be a good thing.
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    Senior Member gggraham's Avatar
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    Paul: We have had many customers over the years try and replace their transaxle/transmission fluid with a "cheaper" compatible fluid. The key word in the phrase being cheaper. They always had a problem with brake chatter or in wheel loaders a problem with the limited slip diff. Usually the basic hydraulic oils are not bad it's the additives in the transmission fluids that get expensive. The cheaper fluids don't cut it and I'll bet some do not even have an additive. At a 100hr change out on transmission I wouldn't cheap out for the sake of $25 a pail.

    I remember my old Dodge Caravan when I serviced the transmission the additive was $25 from Chrysler. I used it and never did have a problem, that and I didn't drive city with overdrive on.
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    Super Moderator willie59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gggraham View Post
    Paul: We have had many customers over the years try and replace their transaxle/transmission fluid with a "cheaper" compatible fluid. The key word in the phrase being cheaper. They always had a problem with brake chatter or in wheel loaders a problem with the limited slip diff. Usually the basic hydraulic oils are not bad it's the additives in the transmission fluids that get expensive. The cheaper fluids don't cut it and I'll bet some do not even have an additive. At a 100hr change out on transmission I wouldn't cheap out for the sake of $25 a pail.

    I remember my old Dodge Caravan when I serviced the transmission the additive was $25 from Chrysler. I used it and never did have a problem, that and I didn't drive city with overdrive on.
    LoL, your preachin' to the choir Gil. Had a customer once that called me about brake chatter in his 580K. I asked them what kind of oil was their mech using in the tranny. They said Tractor Trans fluid. Drained it out. Added TCH. Drained again. Filled with TCH. Brake chatter gone. They were amazed. TCH may be a bit spendy, but it's worth it if you have wet brakes.
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    Senior Member gggraham's Avatar
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    Knew I was preachin to the choir but it was more or less for the benefit of others.
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    Super Moderator willie59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gggraham View Post
    Knew I was preachin to the choir but it was more or less for the benefit of others.
    Point taken.

    And I'll say this for all the Deere people out there; the same applies, Deere Hy-Trans is dang good oil in a tranny with wet brakes.

    My bad...that's Deere Hy-Gard oil. Oops.
    Last edited by willie59; 09-24-2009 at 11:40 PM.
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    The key is to read the labels. If the label says it meets Case spec then use it. Some cheaper fluids do not list the spec equvilant and some (Walmart, Sams) say not for heavy duty use.

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    TCH was never used in any Case Back Hoe for the Transaxle. From the old 530, 580ck, 580B, 580C, 580D, and the first year of the 580E they used a 85w140 gear lube. The 2nd series the 580E better known as 580SE had transale fluid oil that was made for wet brakes as thats when they started putting wet brakes in them. That was the oil of choice until the 580K phase lll machine came out. At this time they came with Hy-Tran.
    Now any good hydualic oil will work for the hydrualics. But as for the power shuttles from the 530s all the way up to the first 580K needs TCH, just for the cluches in them.

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    The power shuttle and brake master cyl. in my SE calls for TCH type fluid. For those of you that have a TSP nearby, their house brand "Traveller" trans/hydraulic fluid is listed as TCH compliant. On sale you can usually find it ~$30 a bucket.

    Although as I said in my original post here my book says to use TCH in the hydraulics too, from the great replies I've gotten here it looked like a safe bet I could use a cheaper all season fluid. TSP has a 303 by Accel hydraulic oil I decided to use there. I got it for only $24 per 5 gallons on sale. Even though it says it's a tractor hydraulic transmission fluid, from its barebones label I chose not to assume I could use it like TCH.

    In case anyone's wondering the SE's transaxle, transfer case and front/rear differentials call for Case's FDL fluid (which may've been superseded by another Case oil by now) or 80w-90 GL4 type gear oil. I don't know if a run of the mill GL5 oil typically sold today would be an OK substitution for the GL4 or not. I've heard some GL5's can attack brass/bronze components, so if Case used those metals in any related systems I guess it could be an issue. Some GL5's I've heard have additives which neutralize this corrosion potential.

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    oil

    You know? How often do you really change hydro oil? spend the $ for the proper oil and be done with it. Pete

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    I run case dozers and have rebuilt several pumps and transmissions, where the book calls for tch use it because not all hytran will replace tch, some of the warrentys are void if you substitute hytran instead of tch, and like pvdh286 said for the hours you put on the oil and how often you change it, spend it and get some peace of mind knowing that won't cause another problem in the future. One of my dozers I bought used and someone put in hytran in the transmission and it ended up burning the clutch packs because case doesn't recognize hytran as a substitute for tch in dozer transmissions, the other guy saved 50 bucks on oil and cost me 8 grand in repairs later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATCOEQUIP View Post
    Point taken.

    And I'll say this for all the Deere people out there; the same applies, Deere Hy-Trans is dang good oil in a tranny with wet brakes.

    My bad...that's Deere Hy-Gard oil. Oops.
    Hy-Gard is excellent hyd.oil,but it's way overpriced and definitely NOT the only party in town.Deere has it made for them--it might not even be the same exact oil from year to year as they bid it out.I've been running a comparable good hyd.oil for about 5 years now in both my 450D and 410G with no problems and I save app.$4 to $5 a gallon.As long as it meets all of Deere's specs,you're fine.
    Just remember when the old lady laughs at your expense for trying to sell what she thinks is a worthless piece of garbage"There is an a** for every toilet seat ever made"
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    Senior Member Ando's Avatar
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    While on the subject of oils, I have a Case 580k (phase 1) and have seen some different answers to the question of brake and shuttle fluids:

    Power shuttle- I was told by a local aftermarket parts dealer to use auto transmission fluid, or any C3 tractor transmission oil. I have seen some fourm posters recommend hydraulic oil.

    Brake master cylinder- I was told to use DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid but have also seen recommendations of hydraulic oil???

    I'm about to do a refurb on the 580k so any help is appreciated.

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