Snorkel 120 lift computer???
We took our Snorkel 120 lift to the shop because it had quit working. The shop checked it and said it was the alternator, started charging too much, thus the computer is now shot. For a new computer and upgrade they want $30,000 to $40,000 does anyone have any ideas other than this?
This makes absolutely no sense at all.
I am assuming you are talking about a 120 foot manlift. I don't know which engine type you have or the manufacturer of that engine. You also don't state the manufacturer of the alternator either. I've only seen one alternator in thirty five years over charge and that was Japanese. I wouldn't think a burned harness up the boom and replacing all the machine wiring would cost that much.
Did you buy this machine new or used? Do you have paperwork that describes the updates and reasons for them? I've rewired the booms on a couple of sixty footers which only cost between $1,500 and $2,000. There were circuit boards in the basket and on the base but nothing that I would have called a computer. There were circuit breakers in both so I can't understand how a bad alternator could burn the system out.
Show us some documents or photos and I believe there might be some suggestions.
I agree with John on this one. Manlifts, like any machine, can be expensive to work on. If you destroy the boom length/angle sensor box on a JLG 110HX, that's $11,000! But 40 grand for what you describe seems a little crazy to me. I know Snorkel makes a TB120, I haven't worked on one, but I've worked on plenty of smaller Snorkels, I haven't seen anything you could call a computer, just plenty of circuit cards. Even with circuit cards, I can't see an "overcharging alternator" doing $40,000 damage. I believe I'd be finding me a second opinion shop!
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John C.
Here are some pics of the Snorkel 120. The engine is a John Deere and the alt. is a Delco. The computers are the 2 black boxes in the pic. The reason for the upgrade was told to me that they don't make that computer anymore and to install a new one the machine would have to go to the factory and get updated with new computers. Help!!
Originally Posted by Top Dog
Wow! I'm sorry I can't help much because, as I said before, I haven't worked on a Snorkel 120, don't know what kind of components it uses. I can say what your describing, obsolete parts requiring update, can happen with big manlifts. Most manlifts bigger than 80 foot boom are restricted to working within an "envelope". If you have the boom fully raised and fully extended, and started booming down; at some point the machine would tip over. To prevent this, the machine has to have various sensors on it. Chances are your machine has a sensor system that's been replaced with better and more reliable components, hence the reason why you have to update, old components won't match up with new. Just my guess. I'm still not conviced your system is trashed, though. I wish you could hook up with another quality Snorkel mechanic for another opinion. Good luck, that's the best I can do. Maybe John C can add something.
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I would say you need to find a different shop. The boxes in the photos I believe are junction and breaker boxes while the big box is the switch box. There will be mother boards in both but again they are only logic cards and not really full fledged computers. Basically there are LEDs in there that tell you what is happening when you operate a control. There may be a safety issue that goes with them because of the length of the boom but I would want to see it in writing from the factory. On all the units I've worked on you could extend the boom all the way out with the boom level with the ground.
So was the shop you took this machine to a franchised dealer? Do you have a written statement from the factory that details all that has to be done to this machine? Is this an inherent defect or what is known as a defect in engineering? What is it that didn't work when you took the machine to the shop? Engine not run, controls don't work in the basket, do you have to run the machine from the ground? What is the physical complaint?
Yeah, looks like typical Snorkel stuff to me. I'm like John, I haven't seen a true "comupeter" on a Snorkel, they've always been more low tech, but they are fond of circuit cards, could be wrong on this one though. I have seen voltage spikes, or grounded circuits, burn up circuit paths on the back of cards, which doesn't take much voltage to do. Those little circuit paths are like a 1/8 amp fuse. That's what makes me think that an overcharging alternator "burnt up computer" is unlikely. Either one of those circuit paths or a rectifier would burn up before serious damage would be done. I've soldered "jumper wires" on circuit cards to repair them many times, especially on Genie and Snorkel lifts.
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The shop that worked on it is a Snorkel approved mechanic, the price came from the factory in Kansas they said it would have to go there to have the updates and new computer installed. If you know of anyone that I could get a second opinion with I would be happy to talk to them.Yeah, looks like typical Snorkel stuff to me. I'm like John, I haven't seen a true "comupeter" on a Snorkel, they've always been more low tech, but they are fond of circuit cards, could be wrong on this one though. I have seen voltage spikes, or grounded circuits, burn up circuit paths on the back of cards, which doesn't take much voltage to do. Those little circuit paths are like a 1/8 amp fuse. That's what makes me think that an overcharging alternator "burnt up computer" is unlikely. Either one of those circuit paths or a rectifier would burn up before serious damage would be done. I've soldered "jumper wires" on circuit cards to repair them many times, especially on Genie and Snorkel lifts.
Thanks Again
Dang, I still find it amazing. Has Snorkel been bought out by the IRS or something? They sure are wantin' your wallet! I don't know anyone in your area, me being in East Tennessee. I don't know where you are in Arkansas, but if your anywhere near Memphis, I believe Barnhart Crane still operates there. Maybe they have a whiz mechanic who could help you out. Good Luck
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Thanks ATCOEQUIP
The shop that looked at it is Hugg and Hall from Little Rock Ar. They were as shocked as I that the factory was so expensive. I will keep looking for other ways of repair.
Thanks Again
What can happen is the alternator , when the rectifier goes bad will send an AC current into the electrics . Your machine would have a heap of Bosch type relays for all the functions . I am guessing that the points in some of the relays are welded together or the coils are burnt out . What can also happen is the tracks on the printed circuit boards can burn out , it is not hard to jump these gaps with fine insulated wire . If this is the case , you need to scrape the insulating coating off of the tracks so the solder can tin the spot where the wire will go . I would nearly bet that your computors and proximity sensors are OK . Get a handfull of relays and change the old ones out , i think you will find during the course of the day the machines functions will come back .
Just my 2.02 cents including GST .
Top Dog,
You still haven't stated what went wrong with the machine. What stopped working? The engine, the basket controls, what? How is anyone supposed to help when you don't state what the problem actually is. I'm hearing a lot of well thought out posts of what can happen and maybe why it can happen. What I don't hear is what actually happened. What is the exact reason you took the machine in for repair? What part of the machine didn't work?
John C.
The machine quit all functions from the basket except travel and the ground function would raise the basket but would not let it down, at that point we got a mechanic to come look at it. To load it on a lowboy he had to raise the boom all the way up and do something to bypass the computer. At that point they took it to their shop to diagnose the problem, thats when we were told what was wrong.
Thanks,
Iron Horse
I hope you are right, I am going to try to get another opinion on this if I can find another mechanic to look at it.
Thanks
OK, now there are some things that can be discussed. It sounds like you are an owner or operator and not a mechanic. I don't know what the mechanic you hired did but I don't think I would have hauled that machine off to their shop for repairing an electrical system. I might have brought it home for repairs. It doesn't take any special equipment to troubleshoot and repair that type of problem. Have you been to their shop and what does it look like. Franchised dealer shops are usually a lot better equiped and kept clean than a shade tree wrench.
Usually you can open the doors on the boxes on your machine and there will be LED lights that come on when you actuate certain functions. As Iron Horse states there are a bunch of relays that could be bad and need checking. The lights usually tell you what to look for. With the boom being able to be raised and the mechanic finding a way to "Bypass the Computer" to lower it, I have to wonder about the power source and the wiring. It is possible your repair people got a price for a refurbishment or rebuild on the entire machine instead of just the repair.
In my mind I can't justify it costing that much to repair any electrical system in that type of machine. Finding a mechanic you can trust is your first step. You might also call the factory direct and check on the statements made by the people who have the machine. I found their web site and got the service page that should give you some information on who to contact.
http://www.snorkelusa.com/TechnicalSupport.aspx
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