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Loaders, Limbers and Roadbuilders.

Doug1966

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
130
Location
Victoria BC
Occupation
Woodworker
Hi, problem is photbucket is now charging to share pictures. Switch to Flickr. They've killed alot of forums. Thanks Doug.
 

diamondtguy

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2011
Messages
1,472
Location
Mapleridge..BC
Occupation
machine fitter/fabricator
Looks like you uploaded from photobucket which now wants money to host your pics.I upload all my pics for this site off my computer (my pics file) directly.Actually easier than photo bucket.
 

Tones

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
3,059
Location
Ubique
Occupation
Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
Anybody care to comment on the placement of the crowd ram above or below the main boom?
I think having the ram under the boom will give it more lifting power same as a faceshovel. Having the ram on the top of the boom will give it more power to drag the dipper in, same as a conventional excavator. :)
 

Waycon

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
15
Location
Penticton, BC Canada
Occupation
I design things.
Forestry booms have the main boom cylinders underneath. A shovel is designed to have mechanical advantage down low. More power for digging.
These log loaders have the geometry altered for more range of motion and more power up high. For loading logs into trucks etc.
 

John Shipp

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
641
Location
England
Occupation
forestry contracting
It's interesting that combo machines have excavator fronts, I've rarely seen a bucket linkage on a log loader front. The compromise of ram placement must be in favour of the excavator front if doing both loading and digging, and I was concerned when fitting a live heel on a small excavator that it would fail to hold position. When maxed out on lift power you can continue out further as long as you don't touch the joystick functions, the reliefs are high enough to hold it I suppose. I would imagine using a log loader front to excavate with would not be the same with regard to this holding by the reliefs and it would just be gutless? That's my peasant take on it, anyway! Lol
 

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
The reason I asked is because those Hyundais in the first picture look like serious forestry machines all except for the boom design. Especially the one with the big processor. I wonder why they built them that way and yet there is another Hyundai with the crowd ram underneath like a usual forestry machine.
 

Waycon

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
15
Location
Penticton, BC Canada
Occupation
I design things.
Short answer is money.

Cheaper to use the factory boom than buy a dedicated forestry one. Forestry boom and stick combo works better, lasts longer and costs more... ...note that when using the excavator boom, we install something we call a "boom riser". It basically moves the base of the boom cylinder up. This gives the machine more range of motion and more power "up" almost as if it had a forestry boom and stick.
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
From my time around logging machinery and watching the evolution of booms, heel racks and grapples; the logging front with the cylinders underneath make the machine easier to use to load logging trucks. The stakes on the truck and trailer combinations are at least nine feet high and the lengths of the truck and trailer combination was from twenty to forty feet long. The cabs were raised to enable better vision when the load got higher on the trailer. An excavator boom is a little limited on reach and lifting height.

The excavator setups you see in the photos would be called road builders in this area. Environmental regulations that started coming about in the seventies and eighties meant you could no longer use and dozer to pioneer logging roads and that you could not do anything to affect streams. The practice of just pushing a ledge in the side of a hill and letting the spoil run down the hill was stopped. Now if you have to cut a ledge in the hill you have to load that material in a truck and store it somewhere and then use it for fill somewhere else. The excavator was the perfect machine to fit that application. A simple bucket and thumb was the ticket for clearing the right of way, stripping top soil, grubbing stumps and moving logs. You can use those machines for loading logs when needed but production wise they are usually slow. I have seen plenty of quick coupler units that can change to a grapple when needed for loading. You should also note that a road builder usually only has an eighteen inch cab riser installed and most do not tilt for transport.
 

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
My main thought is that with an excavator type setup the crowd cylinder packing will always be under major pressure and also there is oil displacement from the push rod meaning less surface area/higher pressure to do the work. Are these real concerns in actual practice?
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
The cylinder forces are all calculated and set by the bore diameter of the cylinders.

What people keep getting confused about is that these machines are no longer just excavators modified for a purpose. Logging shovels are engineered to move logs and not much of anything else. Road builders are the swiss army knife in the woods that can be used for most anything. But they don't move logs as well as the logging shovel.
 

Waycon

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
15
Location
Penticton, BC Canada
Occupation
I design things.
Swiss army knife. Yep, I like that description.

Our standard cab riser (that you see in the pics) is 12". But you can custom order whatever you like. I've done maybe two 18" risers in the last 10 years. And maybe four 48" tilt risers that have the factory cab under a FOPS guard on top.
 

Waycon

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
15
Location
Penticton, BC Canada
Occupation
I design things.
A 220 Swiss Army Knife with a Warratah.

Somebody let me know if I'm hijacking the thread/posting too many pictures :)
 

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John Shipp

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
641
Location
England
Occupation
forestry contracting
Waycon, this is the thread for them, those Hyundai are looking good. Don't hold back :) Cheers.
 

Waycon

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
15
Location
Penticton, BC Canada
Occupation
I design things.
All the permission I need.

Here's a log loader we did for export to the US.
48" tilt riser, FOPS, Hardened side panels, Catwalks, Belly pans, high post tool box guard... one photo of it leaving our shop, the other photo is at the Oregon logging show once boom etc was installed at the dealership. Only one we've done like this, kind of an unusual bird for us. Usually in BC they want the full forestry cab with Lexan windows, and the counterweight moved back with the auxiliary fuel tank.
 

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