john deere 310c backhoe has delay in hydraulics jerky weak

hosspuller · Dec 14, 2017

MM .. You have found my reason for buying Genuine parts kits from Deere. The filler ring is included in the kit. Hydraulic shops don't need the ring because they have spare rings laying around. Until the ring is damaged, it can be reused over & over. So they buy after market kits.

I'm glad you found someone to confirm the boom cylinder filler ring part number... (R91624) If I can find it, you can too. Be aware that Deere puts into a kit, several parts that are not used in every cylinder... because of design changes. You have to be a smart about rebuilding cylinders.

Larger dealers have regular stock orders from the Deere warehouses OR can transfer parts location to location. A small dealer can't afford to stock a million parts and doesn't have the volume for daily stock orders. You might look at your choice of dealers and build a relationship with one of them. That relationship saves me a bunch of FedEx shipping charges. (yes, this puts the small guys at a disadvantage, but my first loyalty is to me. And getting my machine on the job)

I may sound like a Deere fan boy... because it works for my four little Deere machines.

Mountainmover · Dec 14, 2017

hosspuller said:
MM .. You have found my reason for buying Genuine parts kits from Deere. The filler ring is included in the kit. Hydraulic shops don't need the ring because they have spare rings laying around. Until the ring is damaged, it can be reused over & over. So they buy after market kits.

I'm glad you found someone to confirm the boom cylinder filler ring part number... (R91624) If I can find it, you can too. Be aware that Deere puts into a kit, several parts that are not used in every cylinder... because of design changes. You have to be a smart about rebuilding cylinders.

Larger dealers have regular stock orders from the Deere warehouses OR can transfer parts location to location. A small dealer can't afford to stock a million parts and doesn't have the volume for daily stock orders. You might look at your choice of dealers and build a relationship with one of them. That relationship saves me a bunch of FedEx shipping charges. (yes, this puts the small guys at a disadvantage, but my first loyalty is to me. And getting my machine on the job)

I may sound like a Deere fan boy... because it works for my four little Deere machines.

You make a lot of sense.

It would be nice to model these rings and make one out of metal or something. Need something that lasts!

I have better luck out of cat parts systems. But I know Deere is pretty close...just not around here for some reason.

I tried the filler method. I used liquid steel putty. I left a film of oil in groove and I kneeled up small amounts and packed into groove. I tried to press it as smooth as possible. I had issues trying to sand the stuff inside the barrel with the rod in the way. Couldn’t get it smooth enough for the piston and ring to slide out. Panicked and had a hard time gouging our of groves. Bondo would work better..: but by the time I spent money on a bondo kit I would be almost near the prices or the needed rings and save myself the work.
But, I think bondo would be the best way to go instead of epoxy.

Does anyone know why they would design these cylinders this way? Seems to be overkill and unnecessary.

hosspuller · Dec 15, 2017

MM ... You might try using just one filler ring. Get the largest diameter ring. Do that cylinder first, then the next smaller diameter cylinder. cut the ring to fit. then the next. One ring three cylinders.

I would guess using a single groove is less machining and cost than threading the cylinder bore. Also, inserting the seals with the groove pointing in avoids damaging the seals on sharp threads. I don't believe you need the filler ring to assemble the cylinder. It is called a Disassembly tool.

Be glad it's not like the cylinders that have a wire one has to pull out of a hole to release the gland.

Mountainmover · Dec 15, 2017

hosspuller said:
MM ... You might try using just one filler ring. Get the largest diameter ring. Do that cylinder first, then the next smaller diameter cylinder. cut the ring to fit. then the next. One ring three cylinders.

I would guess using a single groove is less machining and cost than threading the cylinder bore. Also, inserting the seals with the groove pointing in avoids damaging the seals on sharp threads. I don't believe you need the filler ring to assemble the cylinder. It is called a Disassembly tool.

Be glad it's not like the cylinders that have a wire one has to pull out of a hole to release the gland.

Thats a good Idea. But, alas, I have already ordered and recieved the 3 orange filler rings. I wanted some to keep cause I will be having to build the other cylinders on backhoe soon.

What could be the reason for this design? Why would Deere choose this? Why not use the old fashioned simple cylinder design?
This has the outer snap ring that is round, and the the piston ring that catches on the notch. Ridiculous. Patent issues? Cheapest vendor for cylinders with this design?

Mountainmover · Dec 15, 2017

Mountainmover · Dec 15, 2017

The ring allowed it to slide apart easily. But wow, why can’t someone 3 model they plastic thing and sell it on eBay for $5.00. Unreal. So...I guess there is packing on the inside of the that piston.....?

Mountainmover · Dec 15, 2017

I sprayed white lithium grease as lube everywhere. That is why barrel looks odd and caked up. The white lithium grease is all over chrome rod.

Delmer · Dec 15, 2017

Yes, there's an o ring to seal between the piston and rod. Looks like those seals are due for retirement, the o ring is probably in the same shape, or will be soon.

Mountainmover · Dec 15, 2017

I have tried for days to get my John Deere website account set up. Keep getting this message when validating account after an email has been sent to verify:

Delmer · Dec 15, 2017

you only need to register to get the prices and maybe order it in to your dealer. Everything else is open to the public. You get the numbers and go into your local dealer to get the RIGHT stuff. They're happy, you're happy. The ag dealer 4 miles away was much more helpful than the construction dealer an hour away in my case, more knowledgeable and more willing.

Mountainmover · Dec 16, 2017

Delmer said:
you only need to register to get the prices and maybe order it in to your dealer. Everything else is open to the public. You get the numbers and go into your local dealer to get the RIGHT stuff. They're happy, you're happy. The ag dealer 4 miles away was much more helpful than the construction dealer an hour away in my case, more knowledgeable and more willing.

Oh, good. I guess parts prices are the same no matter what dealer you buy from? I have a local John Deere tractor dealer. They are always expensive for tractor stuff so I never go there. Guess that’s why I never buy my heavy equipment Deere parts there.....

Mountainmover · Dec 16, 2017

Is it a good idea to use seal retainer when I press this outer dust seal in? Loctite brand of some kind? I guess I can use a similar size socket and hammer to tap it in?

Mountainmover · Dec 16, 2017

SO, I found my service manual. Thank god.

As I am putting the kit in this gland, I noticed that when taking my used kit out of the gland to install new....there is no o-ring to remove on the inner part. But my new kit has an o-ring. Where would this o-ring go? No grooves inside the gland.
Part# jd:re31716

Delmer · Dec 16, 2017

As long as you replaced everything that you took out with something that looks like it has the same function, and FITS, then don't worry about extra parts.

You should be able to figure out where it would go by diameter, there's basically a kit for every rod size, and a kit for every cylinder size, add those together and you get the kit for a specific cylinder. That keeps the inventory lower, but there's some overlap of styles so there's extra pieces here and there.

I don't know if prices vary, I'd imagine they'd be cheaper at ag dealers if anything. I know common stuff is competitive with aftermarket, because it has to be.

I don't think you need anything on the wiper, never seen anything on one. and don't know what would work on rubber.

Mountainmover · Dec 16, 2017

Thanks for the replies.

So, the kit that came in a bag for the internal part of outer gland did not include the outer gland o-ring and backup ring that compressed between the gland and the cylinder Barrel just behind where the barrel snap ring and groove(where filler ring would go).

But, the piston kit has a bunch of extra stuff and it has o-rings that look to be similar size and a black back up ring that Isn’t yellow like the original.
Is it common for the piston kit to have the outer o ring and backup ring for the outer gland? Seems odd.

I am referring to replacing the o ring and yellow flat plastic ring that was damaged as seen in this pic here:

Mountainmover · Dec 16, 2017

That black ring on outer gland that is “mished mashed” behind they yellow ring they it twisted. It looked fibrous and flattened out and kinda square. But, is it really a damaged and broken down o-ring due to age that is now flattened and crumbly? Or am I needing some kind of fiber ring?
The service manual is not super clear in information but it’s diagram says an o-ring and backup ring goes on outer gland against Barrel (original was flat thin yellow plastic ring that was twisted)
See pic attached of item once removed:

Delmer · Dec 16, 2017

Yes, that's what I said, the two kits go for two different diameters, one is the rod diameter, the other is the cylinder diameter. So this backhoe probably has four or five different diameter rods, and four or so different diameter cylinders, but they don't match, or all correspond to only one other size. Imagine for a second how many different cylinders Deere has made over the years in that style, there's a rod kit for each diameter, and a bore kit for each diameter, dozens of kits instead of thousands.

Yes, that is a o ring and back up ring, that should be replaced with an o ring and back up ring in the same ORDER as they came out. The o rings go where they don't move, the seals go where they move with every stroke.

Mountainmover · Dec 20, 2017

ok. got the piston packed and ready. I am putting it back together. Tightening the nut on the rod to hold the piston. I noticed that there was no o-ring inside the piston where it butts to the rod. So, i guess i wont put one now when putting back together. The piston only has that wear ring with rubber behind it and then that standard big flat wear ring. It was difficult getting that rubber piece on that goes under the outer wear ring. kept working it.... trying to figure best way to torque this thing with no torque wrench of this size. IT WAS TIGHT when removing. I used my 1 inch drive air wrench to remove. Can I use it to put back on? My pipe and pull handle is flexing too much. I used a punch to mark the nut and rod and a photo to count the threads at punch points.

Billrog · Dec 20, 2017

Some locktite then do it up good and tight and it will be fine.

Mountainmover · Dec 20, 2017

Hi. Sorry, I didn't see your message until now. I used a big pull handle with a pipe slid over it. Then. I hit it with impact watching marks on socket to see how far it turns. I counted the threads to match what it was before removing nut. I checked my punch mark on the nut and the punch mark on a 12 o'clock punch mark on outside of rod. And, I still counted threads. I also went a 1/4 past the measurement just to be sure. It is a LOCKING NUT with the plastic stuff still in good shape. I didnt use lock tight. Will it be ok anyways? Thanks for the advice.

NOW....I have a new problem. I have it all together except outer gland NUT that finishes off outside of barrel. A couple of the other threads are deteriorated and knocked off. The threads beyond that are not damaged. I can't seem to get the outer Nut to start. It almost starts and then when it spins it falls back out of threads. Hmmmmm.....

john deere 310c backhoe has delay in hydraulics jerky weak

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