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New shop

Jumbo

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
682
Location
Black Diamond WA
Occupation
retired
You can buy "Waste Oil" furnaces, labeled as such on line. One shop I know of, the fuel tank that came with the furnace is labeled "Waste Oil Only" Now I live in Washington, where despite what many may think, there is a lot of latitude in life and rules compared to the East and Mid-West so things may be different elsewhere. I burn natural gas since I do not generate enough waste oil.
 

Numbfingers

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
136
Location
Alaska
Occupation
mechanic
Lots of good advice for sure. Never would have thought of the waste vs. used oil thing, but I'm not surprised the govt would see it that way. I'm pretty free to do what I want, no building permits required. Although, there are power line easements on two sides. The back corner opposite the main door. I'm hearing a lot of 14x14 on the door size so I might have to look at that. I appreciate all the feedback.
 

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
I put together a shop air system years ago and took some pictures

Pitch everything to drain, preferably in the direction of air flow. Imagine every pipe has a trickle of water on the bottom and how are you going to keep that from getting into your tools.

I copied this layout from a tire shop.

The picture of the ceiling you see is where there is an up turn to go to a utilization point. The pipe that continues straight on eventually turns downward and goes to a drain only, there is another up-and-down utilization port at that point to keep any water out of the drops.
 

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colson04

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
2,057
Location
Delton, Michigan
I put together a shop air system years ago and took some pictures

Pitch everything to drain, preferably in the direction of air flow. Imagine every pipe has a trickle of water on the bottom and how are you going to keep that from getting into your tools.

I copied this layout from a tire shop.

The picture of the ceiling you see is where there is an up turn to go to a utilization point. The pipe that continues straight on eventually turns downward and goes to a drain only, there is another up-and-down utilization port at that point to keep any water out of the drops.
Great insight. I've never had a nice air system before, always been cobbled together or just a hose directly off a compressor. I grew up using hand tools, and then jumped right to DeWalt electric impacts when they came out. I thought they were a gift from God when I first used one. Later on I learned about quality air tools and how efficient they make you when repairing equipment. Someday, someday I'll make than investment. For now, I'll file this information away for whenever I get around to building my own barn.
 

thepumpguysc

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
7,445
Location
Sunny South Carolina
Occupation
Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
DAM, I'll bet that piping system was expensive!!??
BUT at a "tire shop" you'd be runnin some serious air pressure.. ALL THE TIME..
& I especially like the "T" in the ceiling.. where it comes UP & over, instead of DOWN, off the T..
VERY WELL thought out !!!
 

hosspuller

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Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,869
Location
North Carolina
Birken V. That installation is one of the best I've seen... Even if there is not a lot of use, water is always present in an air system. So, from a design perspective plan for the water. Flex from the compressor is a nice touch.
 

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
It really wasn't that hard or expensive to build. Main trunk is 1.25" pipe. Branches are 3/4".

I did it all with a chop saw and a hand threader. One arm bigger than the other when I got done but there is enough layout time in between threading it gave my arm time to recover. This was 15 years ago, I was younger then.

On hindsight I would not have placed the underground section of pipe, there is a u-pipe with a blowout section I built into it but it takes remembering to blow it out and it is in an out of the way place. Rather I would have placed the compressor closer and pitched to the compressor tank until it got to the high point, placed the regulator there and pitched the rest down toward the drop drains.

Also I used a TEFC motor compressor outdoors about 40' from the shop out in the open air, but this is California after all. The compressor would probably get too cold where you guys are. Also used an auto drain valve, the tank is where 90% of the water can be gotten rid of.
 

Queenslander

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
1,228
Location
Australia
Instead of a lean, when we built our shed, we used a 40ft high cube shipping container as part of the wall.
With a weatherproof seal and double doorway opening into the shop, it provides an instant second room.
I have pallet racking the full length and use it to store oil and flammables, along with unsightly stuff like old parts that should really be thrown out but might just get someone out of trouble one day.
You can also easily weld heavy racks, shelves or a work bench to it.
 

Tradesman

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Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
1,075
Location
Ontario
Occupation
Contractor
If you end up with a door opening that's too small, you'll find yourself having to back up and get a running start to get larger vehicles in there.
I have never noticed your location before " checks in the mail " good one
 

hosspuller

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Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,869
Location
North Carolina
I've got 12 foot openings in my machine shed. Mostly it works, but the edges do take a beating. I should have gone 14 foot.
 

mog5858

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
100
Location
estavan SK
make sure you put insulation under your concreat if your going to heat it. 2 " ridged foam works good. you don't want to heat the ground.
 

Junkyard

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Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
3,621
Location
Claremore, OK
Occupation
Field Mechanic
If you end up with a door opening that's too small, you'll find yourself having to back up and get a running start to get larger vehicles in there.

Backup until you smell $hit and hear glass break! Haha. Even my 16x16 doors have a couple spots where I've been trying to finagle something in with the sky track and bumped the frame. Here's more food for thought if the OP wins the lottery or something....

My shop is 50x90, 20' side walls, 4 16x16 doors-two on each end. The nice thing about it is if you put your service truck in there just right you can use the crane from stowed position and back. It's come in handy a time or two.
 

Numbfingers

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Oct 28, 2016
Messages
136
Location
Alaska
Occupation
mechanic
make sure you put insulation under your concreat if your going to heat it. 2 " ridged foam works good. you don't want to heat the ground.
I traded out some labor and got used 2" blueboard pretty cheap from one of my roofing customers for under the slab.
 

old-iron-habit

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Nov 22, 2012
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Moose Lake, MN
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Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
make sure you put insulation under your concreat if your going to heat it. 2 " ridged foam works good. you don't want to heat the ground.

And carry your heating pipes as close to the surface as feasible. Only want 2" of coverage at the most. All the engineering tests over the years have shown it to be most efficient to the top.
 

Numbfingers

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Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
136
Location
Alaska
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mechanic
Monitor style shop.png
Another angle would be to build it with the lean to additions from the start, thus avoiding the cost of doing the eave walls twice. Since you only need high ceilings in part of the shop, the heating bill will be lower and since trusses will only be needed in the middle section and the wings would have rafters, the cost per square foot goes down some more. Disadvantages of this design is it requires vertical support members on the inside and you need to heat the whole thing including wings.
The bigger the better! In general, the cost per square foot always goes down as the square footage goes up.
Check,
Good point on the lean to additions. I really don't want to heat a 16' high shop over the entire footprint where it's not needed. So I started looking at raised center aisle style buildings and am leaning that way. I can only go 36' wide though, so I'm thinking a 16' high center aisle with a 14x14 door, with an 8' wide x 10' high lean to on the right side for utilities, compressor room, bathroom, and 8x12 welding area. The work zone/equipment layout will be similar to what I already drew up. The left wing will be 12' wide x 10' high for personal projects. All aisles will still be 40' deep, and when I get the money I'll put an 8' mezzanine at the far end of the center aisle. The boiler will have to go at the back of the 12' wide wing due to chimney clearances. I sketched it up today on paper after losing my patience with the computer, but I made a quick revision. The black spots in the field represent poles placed at 8' OC. The additional cost of the extra space is largely negated by the savings of using 16' trusses instead of 32'. I'll just hand frame the lean to roofs, much cheaper. This is why I looked for advice on here. I get different perspectives from smart guys that make sense.
 

farmerlund

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Nov 22, 2014
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North Dakota
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Farmer/ excavator
I would be very surprised if it was any cheaper to build it that way than using a full with roof truss. I personally would never and I mean NEVER build a shop or cold storage building that narrow with poles in the middle. The pole will always be in the way. Plus now you have limited ceiling height in half of your shop. I also don't think it will make a difference in heating. The heat will end up in the peak of the center section anyway. we just run a couple slow speed ceiling fans to help circulate the air around. one of our shops is 80x80x18.
 

check

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Apr 1, 2012
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in the mail
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Check,
Good point on the lean to additions. I really don't want to heat a 16' high shop over the entire footprint where it's not needed. So I started looking at raised center aisle style buildings and am leaning that way.
I would make the lean-to roof on the same plane as the main roof so snow can slide off without crashing down on the roof below. An advantage of this design is that's it's compatible with steep pitch roofs. The eave walls can be as little as 8' tall.
 

check

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Apr 1, 2012
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in the mail
I personally would never and I mean NEVER build a shop or cold storage building that narrow with poles in the middle. The pole will always be in the way.
The reason for doing it that way is that you can use smaller trusses in the center section and rafters on the wings. If you have any roof pitch to shed snow, getting trusses that large hauled is a challenge. Using rafters on the wings saves a lot of money. A shop with support poles in the middle requires a lot less materials to buy, as less overhead strength is needed. If this were going to be a regular steel framed building, it would make more sense to build it free-span. But with wood, this is the most bang for your buck.
 

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
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8,865
Location
WI
I think where you save money with the lean to's is a typical 40 or so wide pole barn with an additional 12-20 lean to on the side vs a 50-80' wide clearspan truss, those big trusses get $$$. A 16 wide truss with 8 on each side is too much futzing around to be worth the money you save vs 32' clearspan trusses, that's just for the enclosed space, not even considering the flexibility of an open building. You'll save very little in heat between the two designs, the outside envelope area is the difference (assuming same insulation) and that's only the difference in end walls, your height and width remain the same. The added complexity for the side wall above the roof, the wall to roof transition, and insulation and air sealing challenges are not worth it.

If we're talking about a shop with a heated slab, finished interior etc, the difference to get 36' trusses is peanuts. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.
 
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