S. Madill, Blacksmith, Founded in 1911 in Nanaimo BC

Greetings, gentlemen! I would like to beg your indulgence if I may and ask some questions that my sound elementary to many if not all of you. Being as I am not a logger, I freely admit my ignorance about how the job gets done. As I have posted before, I'm working on a scale model of the Madill 071 in 1/35 scale, and some pages back there are a few in-progress photos. The work continues, and I have reached a point where I have to think about rigging. I plan to display the finished model with the spar erect, and I know how the fixed guylines are attached, ends looped through ferrules and connected with turnbuckles & shackles to the anchor points. I understand how the powered guyline wires are run through their blocks at the end of the spar. What I don't have a handle on are these questions:
How are the powered guyline wires typically terminated? With a loop and ferrule like the fixed lines, left bare, looped and secured with several cable clamps , or something else?
What are the usual terminations on the Skyline, Main, and Haulback lines? Or are the ends left bare?

My intent is to show the three yarding lines dangling down from their sheaves, ready to be run out to wherever they are needed. There is a twist, however. I will have the ability to display the spar down in transport mode as well, and that leads to another question: How are all these lines usually secured for transport? My only reference is from yarder #70097 that I photographed at Tillamook a few years ago. At the time, it was semi-derelict and I don't trust that the way the various rusty lines were draped reflected an in-service configuration. Any guidance you can offer would be most welcome.

Finally, let me ask this: If you know of 071 yarders in Oregon or Washington that can be photographed, please contact me here or off-board at gtbuechler@Hotmail.com. I've decided that I would like to write a book on these machines geared to other modelers, so I would like to document as many surviving examples as I can.

Thanks!
Greg

Not a rigging expert by any means but this should get you started. Most lines I have seen are terminated with a spliced eye. The guylines are either a spliced eye or a machine made eye. (See above photo of guylines on a new T-Mar LC550.)

DBDLS said:

View attachment 173274

The BC Workers Compensation Board published some very helpful books about cable logging which would give you a good about rigging setups. Their Splicing Manual would give you a good idea about the cable splicing part of the business. Not sure if these are still available from the WCB here.

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Splendid! The terminations on the image of the new yarder are just what I had in mind for the guylines; easy to do with plastic tube and ship rigging thread. With the form established I can figure out how to get a steely metallic shine on the black thread (black and tan the only options, I'm afraid) that won't stiffen it up like paint would. I'll want the lines to remain flexible.

A member here did send me that Cable Yarding Systems handbook from BC Work Safe way back when I began this project and it has been invaluable. I guess my question with respect to the skyline, main, and haulback is basically this: How are they terminated, if at all, when the yarder is either stowed for transport or not yet rigged for operation? My modeler's fanaticism for accuracy pushes me to get things as right as scale size and materials strength permit.

Another question for you, gentlemen...a member here forwarded to me a .pdf copy of the 071 production list, which runs from 1974 to 1984. The serials run from 70001 to 70233, which would be 233 units completed. I've also heard production of 250, though that could be someone rounding figures, and production through 1985. Does anyone know of serials higher than 70233 and/or production dates into 1985?

Murk100 said:

(Quoting me they were the easiest to run) not the best setup, your right about the W sheave and also that sissor grapple was a lot different than a chocker grapple. The sissor didn't work very well without lift the chocker grapple was a better setup. I dought there are any line shorteners left they were converted to tag machines. I posted a pic of one earlier in this thread(blue goose) notice how tall the boom is 70ft and how short the gantry is 30ft? guyline breakers they are.
If I was to train a new Op start on line shortener 2nd double main 3rd tag. The double main would be the best of the 044s although I luv the tags.
Its even hard to find a good 044 tag op these days.
When I run the doubles I dont use the 2nd quad valve just the toggles

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I have been trying to piece together the difference between a tagline machine and a line shortener machine? I know it is the process of opening and closing of the grapple but what is the difference between the two?

Thanks for all the pictures and history

TorkelH said:

046 as A-frame winch

This looks like a slightly modified 046 to me, used to loading railroad cars at the Englewood railway, Camp A. But maybe it was built for the purpose? Seems to be 22074.

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Is this a frame still in use?

Hi Betelgeuse

When hauling in towards yarder or haulback slack pulling (tag) line is more or less going with the same speed and direction of the main line. On a line shortener main drum is divided in two with a flange welded to the barrel. One of the mains are thread through a series of blocks on a slider on the boom before going through the fairlead Tag drum only has about 15 metres of line and is used to adjust the blocks in the slider up or down tensioning the main used as slackpuller relative to the main used as skidder and thus opening the grapple. Hope this was possible to understand.

I do think it is at least two, maybe three 046 hoists used as reloaders at Englewood and I beleive they still are in use.

TorkelH said:

Hi Betelgeuse

When hauling in towards yarder or haulback slack pulling (tag) line is more or less going with the same speed and direction of the main line. On a line shortener main drum is divided in two with a flange welded to the barrel. One of the mains are thread through a series of blocks on a slider on the boom before going through the fairlead Tag drum only has about 15 metres of line and is used to adjust the blocks in the slider up or down tensioning the main used as slackpuller relative to the main used as skidder and thus opening the grapple. Hope this was possible to understand.

I do think it is at least two, maybe three 046 hoists used as reloaders at Englewood and I beleive they still are in use.

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You could get lost in all those blocks and lines
So you are saying there are two main lines coming off of the same drum. One is attached to the upper unit that the haulback is attached to and the other main goes to the shives on the grapple to close it. The shortener just puts a bite in the grapple main line to shorten it by pulling the blocks apart that the main is going through.
Just trying to get a mental picture because all this industry interests me especially the equipment.

In reply to beekster 's question abouts the 071 packed up for transport. If you look at an 071 there are two tags, one behind and one in front of the cab. The one behind is for attaching the guyropes to and the one in front is for the working ropes. Using these means that the ropes are nice and tidy for transport.

It is correct that the working ropes are usually terminated with a spliced eye though it is common for a wedge lock furell to be used on the main rope particularly for Northbend setups.

Also wire rope is available down to 1mm.

Here is a Madill 071 rigged up on a rainy spring day in North Carolina.

If I'm not mistaken that looks like one of Eric Krumes old 071's and Eagle 4 carriages. Nice-looking set up but your shackle is on backwards on your guy Line stump. Always put the pin towards the yarder unless you are just wrapping the guy line around the stump and then the sleeve goes on the live line and the pin goes through the eye.

This was on a USFS sale; supposedly the yarder was brought east from Western Washington a few years ago. Not pictured is the widow maker left hanging over another guy line, yikes!

Yup, it was the first 071 Krume started with. I was his first hooktender.

Ernie Harrison , Timberwest HBO , Ernie at Madill's Nanaimo Shop checking progress on a new Madill 075 Super Snorkel (#54-85) after over 30 years running Shovels & loaders he finally got a new one in mid 1990's .

So I am trying to get an understanding of the difference between a line shortener and a tag line machine. Torkelh gave me a good description of them. But between these two pictures which is which? Is a double main machine the same as a line shortener? I find Forester machinery very intriguing and can't help myself understand the mechanics of how they operate.

camptramp said:

Ernie Harrison , Timberwest HBO , Ernie at Madill's Nanaimo Shop checking progress on a new Madill 075 Super Snorkel (#54-85) after over 30 years running Shovels & loaders he finally got a new one in mid 1990's .View attachment 174819 View attachment 174820 View attachment 174821 View attachment 174822

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Just curious...What were the thoughts behind the cab sitting on a 1 foot riser?

The cab is mounted on four rubber bushings under the floor. They raised it up to get room for them

TorkelH said:

Inter674 if you ever drive by these machines again could you notice serial numbers? You may find two plates, one on winch frame below main drum and one on the guyline A-frame. It should also be a small plate welded to the left front of carrier frame just under the front saddle. Tower should have a similar plate in bottom and/or where main line goes into the back side of tower. Thank you!

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Sorry about the delay. The serial no is 45033. Model no is S374M4

This relates to the Madill 009 abandoned in Tasmania see page 119.

Betelgeuse said:

So I am trying to get an understanding of the difference between a line shortener and a tag line machine. Torkelh gave me a good description of them. But between these two pictures which is which? Is a double main machine the same as a line shortener? I find Forester machinery very intriguing and can't help myself understand the mechanics of how they operate.

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I think your first picture is a double main. It may be recognized by 1) haulback is closer to the back end of yarder (since it takes the place of the mechanical guyline drum of the tag/line shorterners) and 2) hydraulic guyline winch(es). A double main is working exactly as a tag except it has two similar main drums mounted after each other in front of the winch frame, one of these work as opening line. Drums are placed in the winch frame in the same way as on the 100 series of regenerative swing yarders. Your second picture is a tag machine, most 044 will look like this (also a line shorterner). Most of the 044's delivered from mid seventies are tags, I understand line shorterners mainly were the older series (47000) with the very heavy boom and the very low gantry. Though, #60070 and 71 delivered to MacMillan Bloedells Copper Canyon and Kelsey Bay divisions in 1979 were line shorterners. I may have a picture of the setup on these machines and will publish it here when I find it!