Detroit 60 series issues

RZucker said:

Yep. Just like pickup engines... In the 70's and early 80's you were lucky to get 100K on a carbureted Chevy 350. I owned a 98 Chevy with the Vortec 350 that ran 425K without any issues until a bonehead ran it out of coolant and broke it.
That engine would have NEVER gone that long without Electronics.

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I put 316k km on a 4.8L Vortec in a 2011. Only issue I had with that engine was some part in the throttle body failed at around 240k. $300 paid to the dealer and I was rolling in an hour. Regular oil changes every 7,500 - 9,000km and plugs/wires every 90,000km. Wasn't even so much as a weep or dusty damp spot on that engine when I traded it in. No way a carbureted 350 or 305 would do that.

Latest info. Codes read from ecm, and it showed some inactive codes and two different sensor codes. I forgot to bring home the list with me, but the guy reading it for us, suspected two sensors. The sensor that's behind the air compressor, on the back of the "geartrain" drive, and then another one below the air compressor on the side of the "geartrain" down low. We just went ahead and bought both ( I love just throwing parts at a problem, but its a hour each way to the parts house- just as well put them both in).

After installing those two sensors, (I think they are cam/ timing sensors), the truck fired up and ran, but showing a active service engine light (the first time the engine light has come on) and code. Code came up as the turbo boost pressure input voltage high, which we had replaced that sensor (it's in the intake on the drivers side). Replacing that sensor hadn't changed how it ran, so we removed the new sensor and put the old one back in, and the active code disappeared.

I had taken it for a little drive with the active code, but before putting the old "airflow" sensor back in. It ran, but didn't seem to have full power. I'm hoping the new airflow sensor was wrong somehow, and that the cam/ timing sensors, were the real issue.

I'm hoping to take it for a drive in the morning bobtailing, then maybe hook the trailer up. I've got to do that before the traffic gets bad, then go fix the transmission on the 35. Its not wanting to hit high range, which isn't a issue in town, but its on a jobsite now, and I've got to move it again monday afternoon out of town, its slow enough as it is, I would kind of like high range.

Cam sensor is part of what determines the injection, so that's a good find

I don't have much experience with a series 60 that didn't want to stay running (they always have run!) But my understanding was the only thing that would shut them down with no CEL or code was the timing sensor. On a Caterpillar both the crank sensor and cam sensor have to be bad for them to quit, not sure if the Detroit is the same.

Another update, and I've about had it with this thing. Installed the two sensors, the one behind the air compressor and the one around the bottom. Truck ran. Went bobtailing around for a 1/2 hour or so the other day again, everything fine.

Hooked up to the lowboy trailer yesterday morning- we left the shop at 5:30 to go to a jobsite, load up the rt and be on another job at 10:30. I left a little cushion, because I didn't trust it yet, and its a good thing I did. It ran fine to the jobsite with the trailer on, we loaded up the crane and its about 1 1/2 miles up out of the jobsite, and the last mile is a steep 2 lane on a busy highway. At about the top of the hill, it coughed, and my heart stopped a little.

My prayer life improved a lot in the next 3 miles of narrow busy 2 lane (no shoulders), until there was a intersection I knew I could get off the road at. It made it there with a few more coughs and sputters, but it had me worried.

It did not display any code.

Off loaded the crane, called my buddy with his lowboy to continue the haul (was only 2 hours late for my job). Called the wrecker and hauled it to the dealer a hour away. I gave up. They called this afternoon and said they found the problem- harness from trs to ecm.

I don't know if they're right, but if they are, I'll dance a little jig; if they aren't, my mechanic and I are having bonfire discussions.

I will admit that when I brought the international over to rescue the trailer, I thought about loading the crane up and giving it a go with it. It's only a m11, and a super 10, but there's one bad hill in there. I've had it with a little over 80,000, and that was all it wanted, so I don't think 105,000 would be a good idea, but I did think about it. If there wasn't that one real bad hill, just flat ground, I would have given it a go.

Just a healthy exercise of the legs double clutching and trying to mash the throttle thru the floor!! It would only hurt a little while!

I've pulled 95k up a pretty good hill with an L10. If that M11 couldn't get up the hill (eventually, LOL) there must be something wrong with it.

I could probably pull it up it, its just that there's a stoplight just before the top, and if you have to stop, I don't think you'd get back going again. There's also a ton of traffic etc, and no where else to go. If it was in the middle of nowhere, I'd go for it. A crane outfit that helps me out sometimes, spun out their gmk110 on it- they had a mess getting everyone out of the way to get going again. Cops, firemen, boom dolly and counterweight load, and no one gets out of the way. I'm not doing that if I don't have to.

I've actually been shopping for a truck to replace the international, if I'm going to have two trucks, they just as well be interchangeable. I'm going to look at a old ford ltl9000 with a 3406b maybe this weekend. If I can buy it right, I'll just sell the international, put the ford on my rollback and the western star on the lowboy, and I could swap back and forth. It worries me because in a lot of my area if I do break down with the lowboy, you can't tow it from where its at loaded, if I have my own second truck, I could use its hydraulics to get the dead truck out from under, and get the load rolling again. I'm mostly within 45 minutes of the shop.

There are times when low, is not nearly.....
Nearly.....
Nearly.....
Loooooowwwwww.....
Enuff!

Might look to a Freightliner or KW even a bigger IH as parts availability of the Ford line is getting tough.

Shimmy1 said:

I've pulled 95k up a pretty good hill with an L10. If that M11 couldn't get up the hill (eventually, LOL) there must be something wrong with it.

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Our guys pull a B-train (80-95K) over the mountain pass with an M11 powered 8100 sometimes, I wouldn't do it but they say it's fine, lol...

I have moved way too big with not near enough motor or gear. When it works, it works. When it doesn't chit goes downhill fast....figuratively and literally!!

It is a challenge to set a truck up for that kind of weight in those hills and do it on a budget. The little motor would do it with some steep gears.....just not very fast and being that short wouldn't be much fun either.

What came of the Star Car we both looked at?

Star car is gone. I probably should have bought it, but it seemed to me, just to be a little too light. Engine was only 350, really wanted a 13 or ideally a 15 speed trans. , and the suspension was light too. By the time I upgraded everything, and added tires and two line wet kit, the numbers just didn't work. It was a really clean truck though- no rust at all.

Looked at this Friday. 1989 ford, 3406 with a 8ll. 425 hp, looks like 40- 46,000 rears (six spoke dayton?), 4.10 rears, neway air ride. only 380,000 miles. Was a short run delivery, then farmer owned grain hauler. Big single frame. Has a single line wet kit, and no jakes. Could use a couple tires, and a headache rack. It's transmission was real loose. It was funny, I asked him whether it was a 15 speed or 8ll (you could see the blue button in a picture before I went). He said "I think its like a 10 speed, I don't know what that blue button does, we never use it".



I know there's no support for Ford anymore, but what would you need from a dealer, for a truck that age? If it was a kenworth/peterbilt/ freightliner of that age, you're getting parts from a junkyard too, dealers either don't have them or they're too expensive. Door or a hood, or even a motor mount, the rest is pretty generic truck stuff, no matter who made it. Budd's, Dayton's, rockwell, eaton, cat, cummins.

I have a set of jakes for a 3406B. Also contemplating parting out a truck that has an 18 speed in it. Truck doesn't look too bad though. You're right, any major parts are readily available. A few odd interior pieces or hood but that's what the salvage is for. I love Neway air ride. I also have a 4th axle and a long 5th wheel slide should you ever decide you need it.....

Thanks, he's wanting $12,500, which is quite a bit, I got my western star for $13,500, with good tires and a new reman 13sp. I had to put on headache rack and wet kit, and have spent some time working on it, and it is a million plus mile truck. This is a really tight truck.

Instead of bringing it home, I spent the rest of Friday and Saturday staring at the rear end of a dog, but I'll put that up in the crane section.

That is a sharp looking truck. Is it a PEEC engine?? If so, that truck is worth that for the shape it's in.

3406b model, all mechanical. Aren't most of the PEEC engines gone? I thought their electronics were pretty much unrepairable- cost wise, and most people pulled the pump and put a B series pump back on.

I probably should have bought that ford, instead of the mack with a crane on it. I'm thinking the mack is going to be a lot more work.

Ford is a repaint with pretty red paint, but its still a pretty solid old truck. Its little things that make you wonder though, like they put just new brake shoes on the back tandem, and not the front tandem with it, and didn't replace the drum, which has a pretty deep groove in it. And the not knowing what the deep reduction is in the transmission. They had no idea what the rear ratio's might be when I called them. I found the tag when I got there.

If I can sell my international for $8-10,000 (some farmer to deliver hay?), and get this for $12,000, I should probably do that.......

crane operator said:

3406b model, all mechanical. Aren't most of the PEEC engines gone? I thought their electronics were pretty much unrepairable- cost wise, and most people pulled the pump and put a B series pump back on.................little things that make you wonder though, like they put just new brake shoes on the back tandem, and not the front tandem with it, and didn't replace the drum, which has a pretty deep groove in it.

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I guess I don't know, I do not run Cats, and really have never heard a lot of complaints about PEEC. Most guys were happy to have cruise that actually worked. As for the brakes, there are more than a few legitimate possibilities for braking only one axle. If it doesn't have spring brakes on both axles, a hired hand driving it 10 miles with the brakes on would be reason for changing one axle at a time. Another possibility is if it has automatic slack adjustors, and springs on one axle, the spring brake axle will likely stay adjusted tighter than the non-spring causing those shoes to wear out first. And then there's also the guy that likes to only replace brakes on one axle at a time.

Junkyard said:

Also contemplating parting out a truck that has an 18 speed in it. .

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I'd be interested in the 18 speed if you want to sell it. I'm about an hour away from Claremore.

8LL is a hell of a gear box, can get low enough to drag almost anything and still hit OD in high. 13's were OK, soft spot the synchronizer clutches if pre-selected too early. 15's were an overgrown version of the LL shift selector on the dash or blue switch on shift knob in later designs. Want to get all nasty get a Spicer air shift 4x4 or 5x4 marriage box, those would give you almost any range you could imagine.