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AC in the operator cab?

Natman

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
984
Location
ID
I have the "deluxe" (what they call it) cab on my National, well built, nice and quiet inside, with a heater but no AC. The other day when it hit 104 inside despite strategically located shade cloth, all the windows and door open, and both fans going, I said "screw this." It never occurred to me to order whatever factory setup National offers, probably because it'd take too long to get plus cost a lot. So, here is what I've come up with so far.

A $129.00 5,000 BTU AC unit, including freight. A 1000 watt Yamaha inverter generator, $761.00, delivered. Both prices include Idaho state sales tax, as Amazon is now collecting that. If ever audited, as I am of course claiming this as a expense of the business, it will be nice to have the record showing the tax was paid, they have closed that loophole! A skinny wheel was used to cut through the cab sheeting, which is 3/16" thick, National does not mess around, no wonder it's so quiet in there, good counter weight too of course. A simple platform using stuff I had in the shop holds the thing in place, plus the flanges are pop riveted to the AC unit and screwed to the cab wall using self tapping metal roof screws I had left over from building my crane shed. It's also strapped down, just to avoid any movement whatsoever.

A chunk of scrap deck plate that used to be part of my home hydro electric intake system was used to provide a platform for the little gen set. I went Yamaha instead of Honda as it was almost 2 lbs lighter and just a hair quieter in operation, both are very highly regarded, this one will run 12 hours on a half gallon of gas at about 30% load. I can afford that as if it's being used it means I'm working, ha ha. I'll only use pure mo gas in it, the same I use in my plane, it stores a lot better long term then E-10. It will be quickly removable, in case I need to leave the rig at a job site over night, it will easily fit in one of my lockable rigging boxes.

So, it's all done (the pic of the gennie shows it before it was secured, also before the cord was secured so it doesn't end up in the ring gear), and I've run it up and it all works. BUT, especially as it was in the shade of my building, I was a little surprised to see it didn't cool off the cab quicker. It was 89 when I turned it on high, (plugged into my shed's power system, which is solar powered, so free) and I went into town for a couple hours, it was 71 when I got back. With the sun beating in when in actual use, I am starting to have second thoughts about the selection of the 5,000 BTU unit. I expected (don't ask me why) to be pretty much run out of there by the cold, if anything I thought even this small unit would be over sized for as small as the cab is. I did not have the cab fans on, that should help stir things up a bit better perhaps. Monday will be my first real use on the job, I have a 2 hour drive then 4 or 6 hours of work. Since I already have a 2500 watt inverter on board, I plan to "pre cool" it as I drive down the road, using an extension cord strung out on the truck bed from the inverter location next to the Mack's batteries, then I'll switch over to the gennie. This AC only uses 300 to 400 watts, and I at first thought to use only the inverter, saving the cost of the gennie, but couldn't get around how to get the line power into the cab without somehow creating more problems then it would be worth. Plus, I've been looking for an excuse to pick up one of these little generators, for my winter time airplane trips (preheating the engine) and also when on camping trips with my electric mountain bikes. Anyone else cobble up a system such as this, I believe I saw where someone did here but can't find it.....how big a AC unit does it take to provide LOTS of cooling RIGHT NOW? I may upgrade to a 8,000 BTU unit, if this fails the real world test, still within the gennie's capabilities.
 

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crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,322
Location
sw missouri
I don't shut my cab up with the A/C on. I usually just go ahead and leave my windows and top lid open, and have the cool air blowing on me. I like to hear what's going on, and be somewhat in tune with the weather, and what's going on around me, but with a little cool breeze. I think all the glass and the sun magnifies with the cab closed up. With the cab open and the A/C on- its kind of like riding around in the truck with the wiindows down and the a/c on, its cool but not cold.

I think my units are 5,000 btu, I installed them in my back window, so they blow right on the back of my neck, and I didn't have to cut a hole in the cab.

I never have liked going in and out of the a/c when its super hot out, I think its easier if I start out in the morning and just out in it all day.

I don't think it would matter having a 8,000 btu unit over a 5k, its not like there's a insulation barrier. The sun is going to warm up all that metal, and the glass magnifies it. I don't know if your pilot hydraulics or not, but if you are that heat really cranks up, when your running hard.
 

Natman

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
984
Location
ID
I was halfway through reading your post Crane Op, and realized I would have to start over! I was lured into putting the AC where I did because that's where National had the cab rear already scribed, almost so you could just knock the piece out and put the factory supplied unit in. I am in the middle of a complete re design, including cosmetic repairs from the first install, but it turns out my rear window comes out clean and easy, 2 nuts. Bottom line is, the AC will now blow slightly above my head, and directly into the slip stream of the existing ventilation fan, and back into my face, and overall really mix up that cold incoming air.. As opposed to the first install which had it blowing behind the seat about waist level. Movement of air on the skin is half the battle with keeping cool, and why we still use simple fans, I'll post in a day or so with the results, I yanked the first setup before even leaving the shop with it. "Anything worth doing is worth......" you know the rest.
 

Natman

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
984
Location
ID
Got 'er done, the revised installation. The 3/4" plywood insert takes the place of the rear window, and near as i can tell it should only take about 20 minutes come fall to pull it out and put the rear window back in. The aluminum deck plate covers up the big hole I had cut earlier, and a few pop rivets fill a few screw holes, I think it looks fine. I'm busy as heck the next 3 days, in mid to high 90 temps, this should help.IMG_20170718_173558497_HDR~2.jpg
 

old-iron-habit

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
4,233
Location
Moose Lake, MN
Occupation
Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
I have the "deluxe" (what they call it) cab on my National, well built, nice and quiet inside, with a heater but no AC. The other day when it hit 104 inside despite strategically located shade cloth, all the windows and door open, and both fans going, I said "screw this." It never occurred to me to order whatever factory setup National offers, probably because it'd take too long to get plus cost a lot. So, here is what I've come up with so far.

A $129.00 5,000 BTU AC unit, including freight. A 1000 watt Yamaha inverter generator, $761.00, delivered. Both prices include Idaho state sales tax, as Amazon is now collecting that. If ever audited, as I am of course claiming this as a expense of the business, it will be nice to have the record showing the tax was paid, they have closed that loophole! A skinny wheel was used to cut through the cab sheeting, which is 3/16" thick, National does not mess around, no wonder it's so quiet in there, good counter weight too of course. A simple platform using stuff I had in the shop holds the thing in place, plus the flanges are pop riveted to the AC unit and screwed to the cab wall using self tapping metal roof screws I had left over from building my crane shed. It's also strapped down, just to avoid any movement whatsoever.

A chunk of scrap deck plate that used to be part of my home hydro electric intake system was used to provide a platform for the little gen set. I went Yamaha instead of Honda as it was almost 2 lbs lighter and just a hair quieter in operation, both are very highly regarded, this one will run 12 hours on a half gallon of gas at about 30% load. I can afford that as if it's being used it means I'm working, ha ha. I'll only use pure mo gas in it, the same I use in my plane, it stores a lot better long term then E-10. It will be quickly removable, in case I need to leave the rig at a job site over night, it will easily fit in one of my lockable rigging boxes.

So, it's all done (the pic of the gennie shows it before it was secured, also before the cord was secured so it doesn't end up in the ring gear), and I've run it up and it all works. BUT, especially as it was in the shade of my building, I was a little surprised to see it didn't cool off the cab quicker. It was 89 when I turned it on high, (plugged into my shed's power system, which is solar powered, so free) and I went into town for a couple hours, it was 71 when I got back. With the sun beating in when in actual use, I am starting to have second thoughts about the selection of the 5,000 BTU unit. I expected (don't ask me why) to be pretty much run out of there by the cold, if anything I thought even this small unit would be over sized for as small as the cab is. I did not have the cab fans on, that should help stir things up a bit better perhaps. Monday will be my first real use on the job, I have a 2 hour drive then 4 or 6 hours of work. Since I already have a 2500 watt inverter on board, I plan to "pre cool" it as I drive down the road, using an extension cord strung out on the truck bed from the inverter location next to the Mack's batteries, then I'll switch over to the gennie. This AC only uses 300 to 400 watts, and I at first thought to use only the inverter, saving the cost of the gennie, but couldn't get around how to get the line power into the cab without somehow creating more problems then it would be worth. Plus, I've been looking for an excuse to pick up one of these little generators, for my winter time airplane trips (preheating the engine) and also when on camping trips with my electric mountain bikes. Anyone else cobble up a system such as this, I believe I saw where someone did here but can't find it.....how big a AC unit does it take to provide LOTS of cooling RIGHT NOW? I may upgrade to a 8,000 BTU unit, if this fails the real world test, still within the gennie's capabilities.

Eleven years ago while building the Mayo hospital in Eau Claire, an OSHA inspector red tagged a sub contractors hydro crane for just that. The house rotary seal was leaking Freon so they stuck a window unit and generator on it to finish the job. OSHA also wrote them up for having non functioning standard safety equipment so they also could not run it without the factory AC working. Hopefully you won't run into that a**hole.
 

Natman

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
984
Location
ID
Today it got up to 92+, not too bad (dry anyway) but still hot enough to see how it was going to work. I was lifting a welder up in the manbasket and he had his welder/generator parked right in front of me about 15' away. While he was gathering up his gear, it took just a few seconds for me to step out of the cab and walk around to the rear and give it one pull, she fired right up. Back in the cab I couldn't even hear it over the welder's rig. A minute later I closed the cab door ("kachunk", it has a nice luxury car sound to it, and it really cuts out the noise) it worked great!

The cab fan and the AC exit air (180 degree opposed) made for a lot of active cool air right around my head, it made all the difference moving it up higher and was well worth the trouble. I still positioned shade cloth to keep the worst of the sun out, that makes a big difference.

I hear ya old iron, and decided the risk was worth it. I am small time enough to not have OSHA on my back much, or at all. Worse comes to worse, as mentioned I could put it back stock in no time. But even that airplane cartoon on my rear window (professionally rendered by a pro cartoonist, that's my airplane not some random cartoon plane) probably makes me "illegal", but it kept the sun off the back of my head and probably amuses people stuck behind me in traffic, or not I don't really care I like it.

The grab bar was needed, and rather then reinvent the wheel I went down to Lowes and figured that would work just fine, good catch CraneOp. That probably makes me illegal also! The other good thing about the generator AC setup is it didn't change my deck access, my walk around room on the deck, the counterweight sure did (but worth it) but so far anyway I haven't seemed to have lost any real estate.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,322
Location
sw missouri
I needed just a little longer grab rail than yours, mine is a truck bed rail. I added the step you see under the door also, otherwise in that crane, if your swung over the side, you can't get out of the cab.

20170720_074640.jpg
 
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