Still going

I've never worked around scrapers. I remember seeing them on jobs when I was a pup, and I posted on this forum before about identifying a couple of 6 wheeled scrapers that MF Esson. I know in the right hands they can move a lot on material, but you never see them around here anymore. Are they used a lot where you guys live?

On the occasional large earth moving jobs I'll see them but they've went to the wayside in favor of hoes and trucks.

That has to do with our geology being a mixed bag of clay, rock and all sorts of materials. What one looses in production moving scraper dirt with hoes and trucks is made up when you hit rock.

I prefer a hoe and trucks over a scraper for the bigger projects I've done for the above reasons. At one time I had two 725's and we used them all sorts of things in addition to moving dirt.

Just my $.02

CM1995 said:

On the occasional large earth moving jobs I'll see them but they've went to the wayside in favor of hoes and trucks.

That has to do with our geology being a mixed bag of clay, rock and all sorts of materials. What one looses in production moving scraper dirt with hoes and trucks is made up when you hit rock.

I prefer a hoe and trucks over a scraper for the bigger projects I've done for the above reasons. At one time I had two 725's and we used them all sorts of things in addition to moving dirt.

Just my $.02

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Yeah when I worked for MFE their scrapers were parked in favor of wiggle wagons and a hoe. We did a highway twinning job near a local quarry operation, and the scale man had a bird's eye view of a big part of the job. He said after watching for a few days, that he figured there was a truck dumping every 38 seconds.

We have a lot of hills with swamps in between here. Years ago there was a lot of dewatering done and then the soil removed with scrapers and then good soil brought back in. I have not seen a dewatered project for 25 years unless it is a small area for a deep foundation. Now they use offroad dumps and big excavators hauling fill in and taking a load of crap back keeping the hoes on the new fill. On the road jobs they just walk right on accross the bog using this method.

other things is it's hard to get Good scraper hands. cus well just about any body can be a "dump truck " driver. takes little skill and with today work fores well i think guys are taking what they can get. wiggle wagons do better in soft /wet soil. Cat talk about filling scrapers in 30 seconds. when the scraper get to the fill there is not need of a clean up bulldozer to push down all the dump truck loads plus. but with every one having hoe's these days well they can load the trucks. scraper are maybe a little harder to move thane ATD trucks as they heaver and longer. i think most of it come down right tool for the job or use what you got lol. with the right job you can't be scraper for cost per yard.

I'm in Edmonton and they use scrapers a lot in Alberta. Sureway Construction apparently has the largest scraper fleet in N. America with lots of 657's. There's bunch of them parked close to where I live as well as their head office. They have tons of equipment.

http://www.sureway.ca/who-we-are/fleet/

Scrapers more or less came to an end here for the bigger construction companies in favor of the excavator and dumps, a few smaller old school shops are still using them and getting along just fine. I see less clean up and final grade setting with the belly pans than the hoes and dumpers as with the dump trucks there is need for at least a few dozers to push out the loads then drag sheepsfoot compactors or actual sheepsfoot compactor wheeled tractors pushing out stockpiles. Pay for fuel one way or the other. DKG or Dave Kolb Grading Inc used to be the largest in the US Midwest as to pans in use.

RYAN central converts full suspension A40 haul trucks to drag huge pans. Its a sweet setup. Pulls right through, single power plant vs 2. Five or six years ago Volvo had marketed a 4x4 scraper hauler. The T450D . It could drag 4 pans sequence each pan to come out of the cut as the next one was beginning. With a skilled operator, you couldn't tell where the transition took place.
Unfortunately, not many skilled operators left alive. So the equipment was blamed for the shortcomings of the operators. Some of these yahoos think a pan is a backwards dozer, I went out on call to observe. The guy was diving the frog in so deep and fast , the wheels were in the air.
Bring back skills and patience, the scrapers could be employed again.

Welder Dave said:

I'm in Edmonton and they use scrapers a lot in Alberta. Sureway Construction apparently has the largest scraper fleet in N. America with lots of 657's. There's bunch of them parked close to where I live as well as their head office. They have tons of equipment.

http://www.sureway.ca/who-we-are/fleet/

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Sureway also has a lot of 777's

Some big cuts on this $A1.5 billon project nears us at the moment.
Lots of rigid and wiggle trucks, a few scrapers scattered all along the job, including a large(ish) crew working at the top of the range.
The finished product should look like this.

hvy 1ton said:

Sureway also has a lot of 777's

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There's a bunch of them parked with the scrapers and piles of replacement tires. I don't know if they are building a new shop or already have one but they have their original shop up for lease. It is 3 minutes from where I live. They added several fabric buildings to it but with close to 700 pieces of equipment, they probably just outgrew it. The maintenance manager came into a former welding supply I worked at. He mentioned at the time they had about over 650 machines out working on job sites. They must look after them pretty good.

Scrapers went by the wayside years ago in my area, sales were big in haul trucks and hoes, mainly due to those being pushed hard in the sales end.

Farmers have brought pans back big time and I've noticed a few large companies have gone away from rubber track cat tractors pulling pans and now back to scrapers again.

It just depends on who you talk to, and what they are doing and their needs and what terrain they are in, just a half hour from me a year ago, there was a company running six twin engine scrapers moving dirt and I almost drove off the road when I saw them running, those are the first I'd seen in decades in my area, another company is running two twins again, and a few smaller guys each have at least one twin engine scraper again and I know of few that are looking for a few twin engine scrapers to buy used and they haven't had a scraper in decades that I know of.

I'm not sure if this is the wave of the future, or what exactly is going on, but from those that have gone back to scrapers and talking to them I've been told they have been comparing costs per yard of dirt moved and a twin engine scraper has won hands down every time and they're trending back to them, the same companies are going away from tractors and pans and from what I've been told, its cost per yard moved in maintenance costs of the machines themselves which is driving the decision to switch to scrapers again, tractors and pans are nicer to run, but higher in maintenance costs, not to mention purchase price.

Its been at least 40 years since scrapers were used to any extent in my area, all those companies that ran scrapers back in the day, the owners have died and those machines are long gone, will they be back?? great question, I know of several dealerships that have laughed when I asked if anyone runs scrapers anymore, have been told those bone yard pieces belong in a museum, and I quote, "they are ancient history and will never return" they've also called them obsolete junk, ridiculous relics, and a host of other things, have been wondering the last few years if those same people who ridiculed the machines, are now selling parts for the used machines to the new owners?

I think the biggest biggest demise to scrapers, at least is our soils, is the problem with soft ground. Nobody sets up to dewater a large road section anymore like in the interstate building days. With todays big hoes it is more efficient in most areas to set on the new fill or matts and load out the muck and bring good fill back on the return with offroad trucks. No worrying about water table and hauling both ways instead of taking it all out before starting to haul back.

I think one big advantage with scrapers is you don't need a dozer(s) to push the piles up from haul trucks. Scrapers dump and spread and just keep building the pile bigger without any extra equipment needed. Good scraper operators can do a lot of shaping too.

ya that's what i like a good scraper hand can do just about build a hole road by him self. dump a nice spread and pack it every time they go for a load. cut the back slops on the side of the road and do a little grading too. i think in the fucher i see only smaller outfits one or 2 guys do little road job's will be using them.

Still running 6 wheel Cat 660's

StanRUS said:

Still running 6 wheel Cat 660's

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I think those are the scrapers I asked about on here before. The guys used to keep a rag in a can soaked in gas, and hold the rag up to the breather to give her a little short. Are those tractors or dozers modified to push scrapers? I've seen a wear plate welded to the face of the blade, but not a blade like those.

cuttin edge said:

I think those are the scrapers I asked about on here before. The guys used to keep a rag in a can soaked in gas, and hold the rag up to the breather to give her a little short. Are those tractors or dozers modified to push scrapers? I've seen a wear plate welded to the face of the blade, but not a blade like those.

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Cushion Dozers designed for push loading scrapers, 'cushion via spring stack' to reduce sudden impacts!
http://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/attachments/blades/cushion-dozer-blades.html
The 660B's are hitting 40yrs old, repowered with Tier1 DDA 60series truck engines w/Jake Brakes...Owned by Altifillisch Contractors, Inc. http://www.acigrading.com/equipment.html

Welder Dave said:

I'm in Edmonton and they use scrapers a lot in Alberta. Sureway Construction apparently has the largest scraper fleet in N. America with lots of 657's. There's bunch of them parked close to where I live as well as their head office. They have tons of equipment.

http://www.sureway.ca/who-we-are/fleet/

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A lot of guys I have worked with were in Alberta. Some went out with Atcon, some with Pacer, a lot worked with North Star until they had their big shake up. One guy went out quite a few years ago. He came back to work with us because he missed being home, but after the first couple pays, he went back. I thought about going out a few times before it slowed down, but I have a 6 year old girl that should have her Daddy home.

cuttin edge said:

I think those are the scrapers I asked about on here before. The guys used to keep a rag in a can soaked in gas, and hold the rag up to the breather to give her a little short. Are those tractors or dozers modified to push scrapers? I've seen a wear plate welded to the face of the blade, but not a blade like those.

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The dozers that were built or modified to be push cats had the cushion dozers and push blocks. The biggest difference is that the load is transferred directly through the frames to the second and third push Cat. The last one to get in the push train was the only one that typically had a reinforced center on a more normal push blade. Pushing hard on the back of a Cat with an outside blade attached to the trunions often ended up with bent dead axles resulting from the push adding to much stress to the leading dozer arms pushing the trunions out. While loading the Cat 660 at the Santa Margarita Best of the West show last Memorial Day weekend a beautiful old D8 ended up with both dead axles bent resulting from pushing it with a newer high track D8. The D8 is now repaired and equipped with push blocks on both ends. A 660 typically required 2 D9s as push Cats to load with production back in the interstate building days.