Horizontal Grinders. Who, What, How?

[ScottAR]

The Recycling area has been slow for a bit so here goes...

I am curious about horizontal grinders. The pros and cons of the different makes and the basic business model to need one and markets available. Just a crash course. All I know about them now is one puts big pieces in one end and little pieces come out the other.

 

[John C.]

I've spent a fair bit of time around tub grinders and seen them work well when the feeding operator know what they are doing. The biggest advantage I've seen for the horizontal units is that they don't have to be kept completely full to keep stuff from being thrown across the country side. I don't know the difference in the costs but can't see that there would be much when you consider the material they are grinding up.

 

[hvy 1ton]

@Landclearer is the only person i can think of that does a lot of grinding and is still around.

 

[Landclearer]

Hey Scott,

There is a ton of things to talk about grinders. What are you looking to grind? One of the most important things is finding a way to get rid of the mulch and if possible make a profit at it. The top tier machines in my opinion are Peterson, CBI and Morbark. I think each machine has things I like and I wish I could build my own with all of the best parts of all of them.

Let me know if you have any specific question, I could talk grinders all day

 

[ScottAR]

I'm mostly just trying to drive a conversation. I have no plans to embark on any grinding projects at this time.
I am just curious about the process as the only grinder around here is at the landfill and it's a small bandit 2580?? with a 3xx hp deere. So no one is grinding anything for profit here that I know of.

I'm curious about the markets one would seek and the steps of the process.
What do you like about the three brands?

 

[Landclearer]

Hey Scott,

Obviously most grinders are used for landclearing but like the little Bandit you see some are for recycling. Our county landfill uses theirs in a composting operation. We have a few dump sites around our area. Most of the mulch goes for boiler fuel. The boiler fuel is not much of a money maker but more of a way to get rid of mulch and pay for the trucking.

As for likes and dislikes some are big some are little things. Our Peterson has an airbag system to protect the machine from un grindables where the Morbark has a torque limiter. I am 99% sure the CBI has a shear pin setup. I prefer the airbags by far because they are adjustable. If you know you are in contaminated material you can lower the air pressure to make it release easier. We had some metal and brick on a job this week so I lowered the pressure to 45psi. As for the torque limiter I find them to be kinda hit or miss. If they are not regularly taken apart and cleaned, the grease separates from the centrifugal force and becomes a crust locking the detent pockets in place which nearly makes it direct drive. Have never run a CBI so not sure how good the shear pin system works.

All of The new machines are very computerized with hyd. clutches, IQAN systems and so on. With the IQAN you can adjust feed speeds different rpms when to stop the feed or reverse it and for how long. The older machine had a pressure switch you adjusted with an Allen wrench when you felt it was not feeding properly.

The technology does not come without cost though. We have a PT Tech clutch on ours and we change the clutch oil (Mobil 424) every 350 hours. We have also had a couple sensors go out but nothing major. I do think the technology increases production which out weighs the problems.

 

[dist3]

CBI has a tramp metal detection system which reverses feed chain and feed drum when metal is detected. I think the shear pins are now the secondary protection.
Our transfer station runs a Bandit 2680 horizontal grinder. As far as tramp steel it is up to the operator to open gates to let it pass. If not you replace cutter bodies.
Most of the material ground is 5" diameter and less and a mulch product is made. Single grind for bedding material or double grind for people to use for mulch. Material will increase in size after storm damage.
No comparison between the Horizontal grinder and the tub grinder it replaced. Production is night and day and like John C. stated you dont throw material all over like the tub grinder.

 

[Landclearer]

I agree horizontals are more productive and are the way to go for sure unless you are in big chunk wood and un sheared stumps. I must admit that I did enjoy running tubs though. I don’t think I could ever go back to a tub after running horizontals.

 

[ScottAR]

How does one size a machine? Is it how much hp can you afford or is it more complicated?

I notice the small bandit is fed at a leisurely pace by a TLB. Videos of the big boys seem that they can't be fed fast enough.

Anyone have experience with Rotochopper or DiamondZ ?

 

[Landclearer]

No experience with a Rotochopper but have seen a lot of Diamond z tubs.

As for size, it depends on what you are grinding, mobility, and your price point. No matter what you have you never have enough horse power. If you got 1050 you want 1200. I Think Peterson has done a good job on the 5710. It’s very aggressive, a lot of power but somewhat easy to move. I think CBI has a pretty comparably sized machine but the Morbark 4600xl seems a bit on the small side.

This is just my opinion but but I think if you have a 300 size excavator a good grinder should keep an operator busy and not sitting there looking at the grinder.

 

[ScottAR]

What kind of parts would one stock for a grinder? Seems like maintenance would be pretty extensive and ongoing.

What do you think about the dolly setups for the track machines? The track machines seem to be the way to go for clearing and limited machinery situations.

Thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions. We can still burn most of the year so that's what is done around this area. I can see a time that will not be possible.

 

[dist3]

We keep a gate and screen, Complete set of tips, 10 to 15 new cutter bodies and always try to keep hard facing worn down raker side of used cutter bodies. We haven't changed over to replaceable rakers yet but soon i hope. Keep one Hydraulic and Both air filters in stock.

 

[Landclearer]

We keep a lot of parts in stock. I think we have about 20 screens of different sizes, at any point a hundred or so teeth and bolts, a shear bar, a sheet of ar400 for the floor, right now we have a t bar, filters and 25 gallons of Mobil 424 for the clutch.

The dollies seem to be a good idea, very expensive though. I think it was like 80k for Peterson’s on a 5710. They save weight on moving but not sure if it is a nightmare to install on a job site or not.

 

[ScottAR]

Yowza... Seems like one could buy a nice trailer for 80k. Would be heavier but could also be used for other things.
what is the ballpark average cost to run per hour on a 1000hp class machine.
If that is private I understand.

 

[walkerv]

No experience with a Rotochopper but have seen a lot of Diamond z tubs.

As for size, it depends on what you are grinding, mobility, and your price point. No matter what you have you never have enough horse power. If you got 1050 you want 1200. I Think Peterson has done a good job on the 5710. It’s very aggressive, a lot of power but somewhat easy to move. I think CBI has a pretty comparably sized machine but the Morbark 4600xl seems a bit on the small side.

This is just my opinion but but I think if you have a 300 size excavator a good grinder should keep an operator busy and not sitting there looking at the grinder.

an can vouch on never having enough hp our morbark has a c-16 630hp at 1800 rpm 680 peak hp im guessing at 2100. its an older machine but was availble with 1000 plus hp options and it could use it most of the time

 

[walkerv]

Yowza... Seems like one could buy a nice trailer for 80k. Would be heavier but could also be used for other things.
what is the ballpark average cost to run per hour on a 1000hp class machine.
If that is private I understand.

my boss tells me its about 400 an hr to run one but that is unconfirmed i dont care to figure it out depends on fuel usage types of inserts and material being run , there are alot of variables , plus an operator to run an excavator plus cost of said excavator or however one loads it , needs a good operator that can also maintain it i check cutting head every 4 hrs of operation or sooner if i know i have inserts getting worn down , i average around 10-12 gallons of fuel with ours when i run it i burn 14-16 an hr another variable , this is for mine which is 630 hp , . im running 3 different inserts right now all over my rotor doing a wear vs cost comparison. mine also lives at a landfill we grind powerline cutbacks from the area housho;d yard waste , onsite landclearing you name it we eat it we course grind to get it smaller let it sit awhile put in small screens and get a really fine prodect out of it which we then let decompose a bit and put on landfill slopes so they will grow grass .

 

[hvy 1ton]

Couple years ago i ran into a guy in SW OK that did a lot eastern red cedar clearing. They would pick out any saw logs and windrow up the rest. Then, wait for the trees to dry out and drop the needles and bring in a grinder. Not sure how they are keeping a ~700 hp grinder fed with bushy red cedars. I was hoping to get a look at his setup, but we stayed busy.

 

[ScottAR]

Sounds like "OKMulch" over on the forestry forum. They make cedar mulch. They cut them off ranch land for free and sell the mulch. I understand cedar is considered invasive there as it draws water out of the ground that could be growing grass.

Probably a place for a lower hp grinder I would think as no stumps and smallish wood. If 700hp is low.

 

[walkerv]

Sounds like "OKMulch" over on the forestry forum. They make cedar mulch. They cut them off ranch land for free and sell the mulch. I understand cedar is considered invasive there as it draws water out of the ground that could be growing grass.

Probably a place for a lower hp grinder I would think as no stumps and smallish wood. If 700hp is low.

700 hp is bottom of the barrel for a full size grinder my morbark 4600 is 630-680 they dont even offer a hp that low anymore on that model its 875 -1050 now

 

[ilovetracks]

yeah, my tub grinder is only 300 hp, only has a 3" cut, still not enough! wish I could be in the grinding business but too big risk for me with me always being short on work.