Making trails steep terrain 300 acres brush & trees

[jimbabwe]

Thanks, Howard. This is going to be a many-year project. I'm happy to use a little Vermeer BC600XL... I appreciate all your advice, though!

Jim

 

[hetkind]

That size chipper would be great on small brush...best of luck on the project.

Howard

 

[check]

My place is steeper than yours. Around here, people sometimes build road with excavators, using the thumb to manage trees and bury them on the fill side of the road. Then they smooth it with a dozer. Your property is less steep and you're not building wide enough roads to cover the brush so it probably wouldn't work as well. One thing to remember if you're thinking the D4 is too large, when you build a 9 foot wide road on steep terrain, it will be 7 foot wide 3 years later. Some roads built on my place with a Case 450 dozer a decade ago are ATV trails now.

 

[Former Wrench]

Another thought, a Bandit Forestry Mower. Use it to build your ROW, then the dozer to dress things up.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

I'm confused.

There are several different issues here and I don't quite understand the purpose of the project.

By "ATV" I assume the poster is referring to what we call a "four wheeler" essentially a four wheel motorbike . . . but the type is morphing into the little jigger that seats the passengers side by side.

They mostly seem to be about four feet wide which probably means that for poking around slow a six foot wide track would be sufficient . . . it would have to be much wider to traverse (safely) at any speed.

The two main issues are of course dealing with the timber and moving dirt.

To put a level six foot cut across the face of (say) a forty five degree slope means moving a lot of dirt and if it has to be done through virgin bush or decent regrowth it is never going to be pretty. . . any plan to move timber around for a chipper would be impractical although on the more level sections a forestry mulcher may work but I shudder at the cost.

The standard method is a dozer with an angle blade and work downhill if you can.

I normally try to push the trees as I go and, (as mentioned by check) where possible, leave them on the bottom side of the ROW where they can be partially covered and help to hold the side cast spill . . . it is pretty much a waste of time to build such a track on fill, you need the full six foot wide track to be on cut plus a bit of slope back on the top face and a decent drain along the toe.

It all depends on the purpose of the project but these type of tracks have to be constructed with proper drainage if expected to last.

Maintenance will be a never ending job and the O/P's mention of a largish CTL with an angle blade attachment seems to me to be a possible solution . . . adequate for construction and I imagine more convenient to maintenance grade with one of those rather than clattering around on a steel track dozer.

Cheers.

 

[check]

25 degree slope is really not that much for an ATV. My driveway has sections of 16 degree slope and I drive it with my truck in the winter with snow on the ground. Much of my property has 60 degree slopes. On a 25 degree slope ATV trail, you can drive straight up to the peaks without side-hilling or switchbacks. That said, removing vegetation is sufficient for building ATV trails without ever moving any dirt. Of course, straight up and down a slope sure limits where you could put a trail.

 

[treemuncher]

I can typically cut 0.5 - 1+ miles of 8'-10' wide trail per day by choosing a path of least resistance and trying to stay with 6 inch and smaller trees when possible. I can side slope 30 degrees easy enough and vertically run 40+ degrees with ease as long as there is traction. I also have a tracked dumper with a custom spreader for high end trails that need perfection. Mulching is the only way to go for minimal disturbance and maximum production. Trees, grass, rocks, stumps, dead bodies....I eat EVERYTHING in my path unless it is steel.

I typically use the FTX 140 for steep jobs and small trails. If the ground is nearly flat, maximum production happens with the barko. I used to contract for high end trail construction but these days, I stick with just mulching unless the right contract comes along. The tracked dumper is up for sale.

I will find and post some pics of past work when I get onto the laptop. Meanwhile, you can see what I run at Treemuncher.com Look at the pictures under the Jobsite Pics page for fence line clearing for a good idea on basic mulched trail construction.

 

[hetkind]

We were up on our property last weekend with a thin layer of snow. We are able to identify several abandoned logging roads that we plan to reopen, two of these lead into 100 year old forest National Forest. Like tree muncher, we would like these to be useful for both an ATV and a M37 Military Power Wagon. We might do some selective harvest and open the canopy up for some new growth from the understory.

Howard

 

[treemuncher]

A couple of roughed in trail pics. Typical clearing of trails runs $0.15 - $0.75+ per linear foot depending on the conditions, species, size, etc. If you are not in this business of mulching already, hire it out to have it done. It will save you a lot of money, hair and frustration. Possibly medical bills, too. I've been at this nearly 20 years and I well know the costs and frustrations of running this equipment.

If you try to do this work with a skid steer machine, you are throwing money away unless all of your material is under 3" diameter. Productivity is the name of the game and keeping costs low.

 

[jimbabwe]

Hi Y'All,

I've decided to get either a skid steer or a compact track loader. I need the versatility and based on what I saw my friend do with his Bobcat, I think a skid steer will do the trick for me.

The question is, which brand should I choose? One thing I remember a CAT person telling me is this: Listen to the Bobcat. When it's time to go to work the thing goes to full throttle and stays that way all the time. CAT is not like that. A CAT doesn't need to be run at full throttle.

Has anyone heard of that?

Also, I just looked at the John Deere site and it seems that high-flow hydraulics are not even an option for a new JD 316GR. Anyone have any idea about that?

So, Deere, CAT, Kubota, Takeuchi, Bobcat? Any opinions?

Thanks, y'all.

Jim

 

[cubanator]

CAT or Komatsu are the best I've run, tracked machines are the only way to go also, rubber tired skid steers are obsolete. Both companies offer high flow hydraulics I believe, so a heavy duty brush cutter can be ran on them.

 

[Mark13]

tracked machines are the only way to go also, rubber tired skid steers are obsolete.

That is the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. I have a tracked skid steer and there is plenty of times I wished I had a wheeled skid steer as well. They both have their place.

 

[jimbabwe]

Well, I'm going to get a Kubota tractor. So there! I'll rent a CAT D4 to make the initial trails and use the Kubota to maintain them. I can also mow, use a trencher and a grapple bucket on the Kubota. Oh, and a post hole digger. So there!

 

[CM1995]

CAT or Komatsu are the best I've run, tracked machines are the only way to go also, rubber tired skid steers are obsolete. Both companies offer high flow hydraulics I believe, so a heavy duty brush cutter can be ran on them.

I disagree on the statement SSL's are obsolete. There are many, many tasks that a SSL is a better choice than a CTL.

What most first time buyers of CTL's don't realize is the cost associated with the undercarriage. When CTL's are put into a regular environment where a SSL would be cheaper, the costs materialize.

The cost is more upfront for a CTL and the UC is more expensive to operate. Now a CTL will go places and do things a SSL will not without OTR's and that is where they shine.

An asphalt contractor I work around recently purchased a 299 CTL with planer. They had it on a job we were working on and the tracks were wore at least 60% with less than 200 hours on the clock. I questioned the rational in my mind of why they would put a track machine in that situation when a SSL would have better fit the bill from the wear on the tracks.

At $1500 a piece for tracks, that's going to be an expensive machine per hour to operate.:cool2

 

[dirty4fun]

I have had quite a few SSL's and now have a CTL, there are many times I wish I had the wheels. The CTL does more of the work that I do which is why I have one I used to plow a lot of snow with the SSL, sure wouldn't with the CTL . I tried last winter, and if you can remove all the snow so you are on pavement the tracks are fine. Just about worthless on packed snow or ice. Everything has it's place!

 

[Georgia Iron]

I have done exactly what you are doing. I have a wheeled skid, a tracked skid, and a 953. Rent a 953 forget the dozer. I have used all 3 to make trails and clear property lines. I cleared almost 2 miles with my 953 and 12 acres for food plots.. It did it real quick. I would think a 1 to 2 week rental would about take care of your trails. Make long pushes to piles which you can burn later clear around them to so you can lite them off when they dry. Keep your pies about 500' apart or so. In some cases I went 1000' between piles, break the trail then push debris toward your piles. If possible put your piles down hill it will go 4 times as fast.

 

[fast_st]

A little kubota tractor will be great for maintaining trails. I helped the farm next door put up a few thousand feet of fenceline, he drove the wanted fenceline path with his compact deere tractor and I followed with the JD350, removing any pesky trees and scooting them off to the side, using the tracks and blade to mulch up the small brush. He skidded the small trees out with the little tractor and then we piled them up into a huge burn pile with the dozer.

 

[treemuncher]

I now have my newest machine up and running. I was thinking about this thread while I was building some trails throughout my neighbor's property. I cut in over 2,000 linear foot of trail at 8'+ width in less than 90 minutes, including numerous stumps @ 30"+ diameters, trees up to 12"+, leftover logging slash and less than level terrain. I left most of it in "rototilled" condition and ready for seeding as I erased my tracks on the finish passes. You could never convince me to build trails any other way. Faster, cleaner and healthier for the save trees. Cracking the bark and subsurfacing to the root zone, as always happens with a dozer blade, is the worst thing you can do to the save trees



The white patch on the upper left side of the trail was a 20" diameter sandstone rock until I hit it with the mulcher. Now, it is a pile of white/yellow sand.

 

[old-iron-habit]

I now have my newest machine up and running. I was thinking about this thread while I was building some trails throughout my neighbor's property. I cut in over 2,000 linear foot of trail at 8'+ width in less than 90 minutes, including numerous stumps @ 30"+ diameters, trees up to 12"+, leftover logging slash and less than level terrain. I left most of it in "rototilled" condition and ready for seeding as I erased my tracks on the finish passes. You could never convince me to build trails any other way. Faster, cleaner and healthier for the save trees. Cracking the bark and subsurfacing to the root zone, as always happens with a dozer blade, is the worst thing you can do to the save trees


View attachment 167666View attachment 167665 View attachment 167667
The white patch on the upper left side of the trail was a 20" diameter sandstone rock until I hit it with the mulcher. Now, it is a pile of white/yellow sand.

Where are the pictures with your new machine in it? We patiently(?) wait to see them

 

[treemuncher]

I'm still having some issues with the new machine. I posted a thread on the following link:
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/issues-with-lamtrac-mulching-machines.66538/

When I get out and cut some more, once the issues are fixed, I will try to post up some new pics. I need to get a bunch of pics of this machine for my marketing. Dis-assembly pics don't bring in the contracts!


Here I was sizing up the machine on the truck that I custom built for it.