hough 50 transmission slipping

[Norbert77]

Looking at an ancient hough 50 but the transmission is slipping. Like it just inches under full throttle. Is it a truck torque converter, industrial, something special?

 

[Delmer]

At this point, what difference does it make???

I couldn't say for sure on a Hough, but some of the old loaders had a separate transmission with a driveshaft coming from the bellhousing. If the driveshaft stops turning when it's put in gear, then the torque converter is slipping, if it kept turning, then the transmission was slipping. As likely as anything the fluid is just low if it was running when parked. Next would be the torque converter or transmission. Some also had a "shear pin" between the flywheel and torque converter. A broken flex plate will cause a transmission to inch under full throttle, I am eminently qualified to say that.

 

[Norbert77]

Against my better judgement, I bought it. Will be delivered tomorrow. I figure I'll start with a complete oil change which it probably needs and see where that takes me.

Been reading up on ATF all day. Apparently this beast needs ATF A but I don't know what that is. Is it thinner or thicker then dextron 3?

According to Wikipedia, type A is a 50/50 mix of type A and type F. Does not sound legit

 

[Mike Van]

A little more reading here http://napatire.com/transmission-fluid-flush-tips Type F used to be for Ford, not thinner or thicker but different additives in it. In my old Trojan, a few fluid changes got it going better, that said use type A too, which is Dextron II at Napa. Change filter too.

 

[Norbert77]

Spent 3 hours power washing it to get most of the grime off. Poor thing, the grime is as hard as baked on tar.

There is a gauge in the cab, the only one, it reads 30 at idle and 55 at power. In any gear it Doesn't go anywhere, sounds like it was cavitating. When it has been sitting a while the transmission oil was full. After I shut it off the engine, the tranny fluid was half below add and the end of the stick. After cleaning I found a sticker that says to use Dexron oil, to check when engine idling and warm, in neutral. Now I need to top up the tranny, I'd laugh if it was low on oil and worked if I added some.

A bit of white in the transmission fluid, but doesn't smell or look bad.

Also, I don't see injector line. It is a supercharged looking Detroit diesel 3 or 4 banger, is it a 2 stroke? Ow does it get fuel?

 

[Delmer]

If it's cavitating, then check for a suction screen being plugged up. The white could be air or water, you can check by dripping the oil on a hot piece of steel that sizzles water, if the oil pops or sizzles then there's water in it.

 

[Norbert77]

Took 7 litres, almost 2 whole gallons of ATF to get to the full mark. Poor beast... After driving around the yard a few minutes, still slipping a lot, the new oil is full of bubbles. Next I will drain all the oil and check the hoses. Which hose has the strainer, or where is the strainer on this beast? No filter?

 

[Norbert77]

Today i had to shut it off at the engine. When did that, I heard the compressor hiss for a few seconds. It's not building pressure. If there is no air pressure, can that affect the clutch pressure?

 

[kshansen]

Pictures help a lot. Take some of the engine from a few different places and same for the transmission showing some of the lines connected to it.

Air in oil is a good sign there is a leak in the suction line to transmission pump, a picture showing the lines might let someone point to a place to check.

Air leaking back out of the compressor would tend to indicate bad exhaust valve or just crap in them causing them to leak. A picture of the compressor might get some information on something you could check.

 

[Norbert77]

The line is leaking at the compressor so it will never build pressure. So many air hoses on transmission, I don't know if it can run without pressure. Will be fixed shortly though.

 

[Norbert77]

Changed the oil. The bottom was so full of metal I almost had a stroke. 6 gallons of new oil and no better. Found the connection to the primer pump was loose. Didn't try it yet. There is a drain plug where the torque converter is, and what looks like an oil level hole, is there supposed to be some sort of lubricant in there? Or is that. Just for inspection?

Here is the pump the lowest transmission hose goes to. If this isn't spinning then the torque converter will have a hard time suckling oil. Does this need to be bled somehow?

Interesting observation, when trying to drive it, this hoses are hammering. Like the pressures spike and drop. A lot. Like once a second. I can see the bends in the moving.

 

[Norbert77]

Update, I wrapped the questionable one with cerawrap and electrical tape to help eliminate suction problem. No better off. I loosened the charge pump, while running some oil came out, but I don't think enough. I took the charge pump out, it works alright by hand and splines are alright, I'll take it in and have it tested, or ill take it apart and look inside. Made by Webster Elwctric, part number 3LCS-2L. Cute little pump.

Interesting observation, the stràiner in this unit is a very fine mes, canister looking strainer. When I had the suction hose off, I let the new oil run into a pail. Barely anything comes out. I wonder if the new ATF is maybe thicker than what this was designed for and that's what's happening, it cannot be sucked through the strainer fast enough. Will install a pressure gauge on top of the transmission to check pressure, in hindsight I should have done that first before removing the pump...

 

[Norbert77]

Just an update, mates, some goofball removed the in-line filter off the transmission. This poor b*****d thing has been running without a filter and just the mesh strainer in the tranny sump. I flushed the tranny and installed new fluid. It got contaminated right away. Was so bad the new fluid clogged up the strainer in my funnel. What I did is drain the tranny fluid again and this time I filled the transmission with diesel to flush the gearbox and torque converter. I know what you're thinking. But it actually seems to be working a little better, letting it sit overnight then I'll run it again tomorrow then drain, put in new diesel, rinse and repeat. Atf is too pricy to keep flushing. Tomorrow I will install the tranny filter. Can't decide between a 5 or 10 micron filter, 5 might clog too soon.

 

[old-iron-habit]

Spent 3 hours power washing it to get most of the grime off. Poor thing, the grime is as hard as baked on tar.

There is a gauge in the cab, the only one, it reads 30 at idle and 55 at power. In any gear it Doesn't go anywhere, sounds like it was cavitating. When it has been sitting a while the transmission oil was full. After I shut it off the engine, the tranny fluid was half below add and the end of the stick. After cleaning I found a sticker that says to use Dexron oil, to check when engine idling and warm, in neutral. Now I need to top up the tranny, I'd laugh if it was low on oil and worked if I added some.

A bit of white in the transmission fluid, but doesn't smell or look bad.

Also, I don't see injector line. It is a supercharged looking Detroit diesel 3 or 4 banger, is it a 2 stroke? Ow does it get fuel?

The Detroit 2 strokes have everything for the injection system in the head. Fuel comes from the tank thru the first filter and to the gear type fuel pump. From there it is pumped at 60 PSI thru the second filter and into the head to each injector. Where the return fuel line comes out of the head it comes thru a brass(?) fitting screwed into the head. That is a restricter fitting with a bore suitable for your engine. Do not remove it. Do not ever replace the fuel line from the gear fuel pump and the second filter with ordinary fuel line. If you ever need to replace it use 1/4 inch hydraulic line or get a original steel one if you can source it. Is yours a 53 or 71 series engine. 53s use screws to hold the valve covers on. 71s have big neuraled knobs thru the top of the valve covers to hold them on. You can count the exhaust ports to see if it is a 3 or 4 cylinder. It has a blower to inject air but it is volume only. It develops less that a pound of pressure if I remember right. It is not a supercharger in this application. Drag racers commonly used Detroit blowers on top of the intakes on the dragsters in years past. They made superchargers out of them by gearing them way up via the belt drives thus forcing more air into the engine. Good luck.

 

[Norbert77]

Mine is a 53, I'm only changing file lines to the first pumpi have a suction issue. The line is steel reinforced like a hydraulic hose from the tank to the first filter too, probably because of the length of the run.

What does the transmission pressure regulator look me and where would I find it? After about half throttle I hear a strange chatter. While flushing the tranny sump I found a little round 3/16 flat metal piece about 1/16 thick, gave it to my dad to look at and he threw it away in the grass...

 

[kshansen]

Do not ever replace the fuel line from the gear fuel pump and the second filter with ordinary fuel line. If you ever need to replace it use 1/4 inch hydraulic line or get a original steel one if you can source it.

I'm not exactly sure why you are saying this. I would agree that one needs to use a good quality hose but don't see the problem as long as it is rated well above the pressure the pump puts out. Normal fuel pressure on a Detroit is only in the 40 to 70 psi range. Normal Push-lock hose is rated at 250 psi.

Granted the off the shelf stuff at the local AutoZone is probably only rated for 50 psi and would be a little questionable for anything more than a temp repair to get a machine loaded on a truck to get back to the shop.

 

[old-iron-habit]

I'm not exactly sure why you are saying this. I would agree that one needs to use a good quality hose but don't see the problem as long as it is rated well above the pressure the pump puts out. Normal fuel pressure on a Detroit is only in the 40 to 70 psi range. Normal Push-lock hose is rated at 250 psi.

Granted the off the shelf stuff at the local AutoZone is probably only rated for 50 psi and would be a little questionable for anything more than a temp repair to get a machine loaded on a truck to get back to the shop.

That makes sense. I guess I have not looked at fuel line in recent years to know whats available. 250 lb rated would certainly be enough. I always used 1/4" hyd hose as it is cheap, screwed right in, and never had an issue with them.
Edit, spelling.

 

[Norbert77]

Finally got to checking transmission pressure. In any setting the gauge shows 140 at idle, then climbs to 180 when I give it gas. At full throttle it climbs to 220. Seems to he the torque converter, the shaft to the transmission not spinning even at full throttle.

Is there a separate pressure gauge for the converter?

 

[Delmer]

I haven't seen a pressure test for a torque converter. It's either full and working, or not full, or broken. As far as I know...

 

[Ryan151]

Does this machine have clark torque converter and transmission? I am assuming since you have hydraulics and pump pressure your fiber disk on the flywheel is good. Did you say you found metal in the transmission sump? Also did you clean the suction strainer? It unfortu atelt could be too late for the torque converter. No matter though they are easy to rebuild.