1984 Case 780 A336BDT

[Jasonswett]

New to the forum and first post.
Looking for any info on rebuild kits for the A336BDT Case engine. Anyone with a recommendation on where to buy the parts? The machine is new-to-me. I haven't gotten the numbers off of it yet but will have them soon if it makes a difference.
I bought the machine with a spun bearing and still have to have it moved home. It doesn't run so moving it is going to be a project but nothing I feel I can't manage.
I am also looking for any specs on the machine, along with service manuals and parts manuals.
Thank you all in advance for the help and for a great forum.

Jason

 

[Tinkerer]

For parts Dale Wiess has better prices than most vendors and he is a wealth of Case knowledge. http://www.e-backhoeparts.com/
Your 336 engine is the same as a 301 other than the larger cylinder bore. What specs. do you need ? You really need the service manual for the machine. They are not cheap but worth their weight in gold. Case has an online parts book for your machine, but if you want to download the entire parts book use this link. http://www.minnpar.com/partbooks/BA... 780/CASE 780 LOADER BACKHOE (COMPRESSED).pdf
I have the engine service manual somewhere in one of my computers in .pdf format. PM me your email address and I will try to send it to you. I may have to put it in a zip file.

 

[Jasonswett]

Thank you for the quick reply!
My email is jason.m.swett at gmail dot com
If you have that service manual that would be awesome! I know I can't rebuild the engine without it.
I'll check out that website when I get out of work and hopefully by then I'll get the numbers off the machine so I can start ordering some parts.
Thank you so much again. Have a great day!
Jason

 

[Tinkerer]

The manual is on its way. It will take a while to download because I didn't compress it to a zip file. Also, depending on how severe the damage is to the crankshaft in your engine you want to consider getting a used engine. Those 336BDT's were used in many thousands of Case Farm and industrial tractors. There are a lot of them available in farm machinery salvage yards at decent prices.
This engine service manual also has the specifications for the 267 and 401 engines in it.

 

[Jasonswett]

Thank you Tinkerer! Moat of the specs I was looking for are in the service manual you sent me. The next issue I've come across is figuring out the engine serial number. It seems the plate that would normally hold the number is missing off the engine.
So I'm thinking I can't order parts until I open up the engine. From what i have been reading, there are two different 336BDT engine rebuild kits. With the main difference being the size of the cylinder bore.
I have also noticed some kits have 2 O-ring sleeves and some have 3 O-ring sleeves. I was really hoping to have the parts ordered and ready to go when I took the machine apart. But now I'm thinking the best bet is to tear it all down and figure out which kit I need from there.
I have been searching high and low for rebuild kits, engines, and engine parts to see which direction to go. It doesn't seem there are as many available as I had hoped before buying this machine. I may have to talk to the previous owner some more and see how he ordered parts for it.
In the last couple years, the previous owner has replaced 8 hoses, 3 cylinders, repacked the steering cylinders and some others, replaced the starter and alternator, and new batteries. Plus fuel filters and the oil and filter. He intended to keep the machine for a long time but also used it for his business. So when the engine quit, he decided to buy a newer, smaller machine that wouldn't need as much maintenance and he could transport himself.

Ok, I think that's it for now. I'll add some pics so you can see the monster in it's current state.

Jason

 

[Plongson]

Hey Jason, What did you have to give for that machine if I might ask? I'm always trying to keep a relative value for this stuff in my head for future reference.

BTW, my 2004 JD-210 LE had a bad rod bearing when it came home too, and I replaced the whole thing with a crate long block...always makes me wonder how these guys trash a rod or main bearing without running out of oil.

BUT!! Some guys could break an anvil!! LOL

 

[Tinkerer]

Jason : the bore size is the same in all 336s or it wouldn't be a 336. The only difference you would find is that some are turbo charged and some aren't. Engine serial numbers usually are unimportant for what you are doing. Don't worry about the number of o-rings on the cylinders. The rebuild kit will have what you need. Call Dale Wiess, he will answer ALL of your questions. His rebuild kits are very high quality.
When you remove the oil pump look carefully and keep track of how many shims are on each bolt between the block and pump. That is how the backlash is set for the drive gears. That pump has timing marks on the gears because it balances the engine.

 

[Jasonswett]

Hey Jason, What did you have to give for that machine if I might ask? I'm always trying to keep a relative value for this stuff in my head for future reference.

Long story short, I tow for AAA and had to tow the guys truck. When we were unloading I saw the backhoe and asked about it. He said he was going to scrap it and the scrap place was going to give him $1700 for it when they could get there to get it. So I told him I would give him $1700 plus $50 to let it sit until I can get it moved. He said $1700 and its mine and I can take my time getting it out! Not sure about out there, but a running 780 here can sell anywhere from $15,000-$20,000.

My overall plan is to rebuild the engine and restore the machine as much as possible. It's not in terrible condition but it'll definitely require some elbow grease. I'll add some pics from today's little bit of progress of getting the monster ready to move. Which leads me to my next question. I got the buckets up and ready, and one stabilizer. But the right stabilizer won't budge. Does anyone think it'll be as easy as opening up the line and trying to lift it? Or will it be a little more work than that?

 

[Plongson]

I think you scored! Ya, gonna be some work involved, but it is a nice machine.

I'd have no issues cracking a hydraulic line and lifting a leg. Prolly gonn'a need a come-along though...

That Ol' boy with the property sure has some "treasures"...

 

[Jasonswett]

Jason : the bore size is the same in all 336s or it wouldn't be a 336. The only difference you would find is that some are turbo charged and some aren't. Engine serial numbers usually are unimportant for what you are doing.

Tinkerer, the image shows what I keep finding. But I will call Dale tomorrow and speaks with him to see what he says. Does he usually stock most parts or have to order them?
Thank you for the tips. If you have anymore please let me know. I have rebuilt engines before, but never a diesel and never anything like this. I'm gonna take my time with it and make sure it's right.
Do you recommend anything else I should replace while the engine is out and apart? (i.e.- water pump, oil pump, oil screen, etc..)

 

[thepumpguysc]

Yup. open both lines and hit it w/ some air.. STAND BACK.. its gonna fly and your gonna get wet.. lol
OR just winch it up. MUCH, MUCH SAFER..
That thing is a monster.. compared to a 580.. and I thought 3500. was good, but the 580 my friend bought was running and driving.

 

[Jasonswett]

I think you scored! Ya, gonna be some work involved, but it is a nice machine.

I'd have no issues cracking a hydraulic line and lifting a leg. Prolly gonn'a need a come-along though...

That Ol' boy with the property sure has some "treasures"...

Thanks, Plongson! I'm excited for the adventure and experience.

I had the back of the roll back under the stabilizer and lifted the whole right side off the ground trying to get it up. I'm just hoping the piston isn't froze inside and that cracking the line is enough to get it up. Otherwise I may have to pull the pin off the pad and deal with it after i get it home.

 

[Jasonswett]

Yup. open both lines and hit it w/ some air.. STAND BACK.. its gonna fly and your gonna get wet.. lol
OR just winch it up. MUCH, MUCH SAFER..
That thing is a monster.. compared to a 580.. and I thought 3500. was good, but the 580 my friend bought was running and driving.

Lucky to find one around here running for under $10,000. And even then they need some kind of work and are pre-70's.

 

[Tinkerer]

You will need to dismantle the engine and determine how it is balanced. That is why there are two different replacement pistons available.
Did you pull back on the stabilizer lever when you were putting upward pressure on it ?

 

[Jasonswett]

You will need to dismantle the engine and determine how it is balanced. That is why there are two different replacement pistons available.
Did you pull back on the stabilizer lever when you were putting upward pressure on it ?

How do I determine how it is balanced once it's all apart?
I used a ratchet strap to hold the levers as I was lifting each cylinder. With some hope, I left the ratchet strap on the one stabilizer lever and put a log underneath the pad so maybe it'll loosen up with the weight of the machine on it. *fingers crossed*

 

[Tinkerer]

You will know as soon as you get a look at the oil pump. The oil pump with the balancer integrated in it it massive and uses those mounting shims I mentioned before. When dealing with old machines you never know what may have been altered to the engine. Is the turbo charger on it ? Or is it naturally aspirated ? If the turbo is on it that will determine which rebuild kit you need. I think the turbo pistons have a different fire-ring than a non-turbo charged engine. I believe that screenshot you posted is showing in-frame kits. Be very careful of which kit you purchase. That is why I encourage you to call Dale.

 

[Jasonswett]

Tinkerer,
I'm gonna call Dale tomorrow. Work was crazy today so I didn't get a chance to. The turbo is still on it but I'm kinda worried about how the engine is gonna look inside. I realized the exhaust pipe hasn't been on it and may have gotten water into the turbo and manifold.
I believe you are correct about those kits being in-frame. I'll probably just order everything right from Dale if he has or can get what I need.
Thank you again for all of your help. It's greatly appreciated.

 

[Jasonswett]

Not sure if I should start a new thread for this or not.
There seems to be some question as to the year of my machine. If someone has access to check the serial number that would be great!
The serial number on the machine is: 5501214

The previous owner stated the backhoe is a 1984 Case 780CK. If anyone could confirm this or lead me to the best place to find the info, it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!

I am also wondering if the 336BDT is known at all for breaking a crankshaft? The PO said the engine was seized so I pulled the starter out to see if I could turn the flywheel at all and it will move about 3 inches back and forth before feeling it bind up. But watching the front of the engine, I didn't really see anything moving (alternator, belts, etc..). Does the flywheel have to be moved more to see anything up front moving?

Jay

 

[Tinkerer]

A picture of the machine would help. You most likely have a 780B. They were made from July 1981 to early 1984. In 1984 Case started putting the 6 cylinder motors in them. They then were 780Cs. The 336 engine is not known to have a reputation for broken crankshafts. I think you may need to remove the engine and do a complete tear-down. Lack of anything moving up front as you describe could be problem with the crankshaft damper, or it could be a broken crankshaft. Remove the oil pan and then you will find out what the problem is. Its going to be coming off eventually anyway.

 

[Jasonswett]

I'm thinking the machine is a '74. Not an '84.
I'll be tearing into the engine this week since I finally got the machine home yesterday. I did email E-Backhoeparts.com with a starting list of parts I know I need and have part numbers for. Plus I requested info on the engine.