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Cat vs John Deere Dozers

inyati13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
211
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Farming
I often read posts that regardless of the subject, people find some way to put in a plug for either a Caterpillar or John Deere based on their preference. They all seem credible, but here is my observation that seems to indicate to me that when it comes to Dozers, Cat has the advantage. First, here is the basis for my observation. I have worked around the earth moving profession since 1974 when I went to work in the coal mining fields of eastern Kentucky. As a reclamation supervisor and quality control engineer for Tesoro Coal Company in Hazard, KY, the Cat was the preferred machine. They tried Terex which eventually everyone began to call Timex because they did not hold up. I later became a Reclamation Specialist and was on coal mines in KY, VA, West VA, TN, CO, WY, MT, North Dakota, and Alaska. The predominant machine was Cat. In fact, I do not remember a John Deere machine on any of the coal mines I inspected in all those years. In 1987, I became a Remedial Project Manager on the largest Superfund Site in the US. The famous Berkeley Pit and associated superfund activities in Butte, MT including Silver Bow Creek and the Clark Fork River. The incredible mess was created by the Anaconda Minerals Company but the obligations fell to ARCO who bought out Anaconda (they lived to regret that). In all the massive activities associated with the remedial activities in Butte and the actual reconstruction of 22 river miles of Silver Bow Creek, I never saw a Deere. Let me admit that most of the machines on these kind of sites were above the D6 size machines. But there were activites for smaller dozers going on and they were always Cat. In 2005, I went to Denver and worked on the Rocky Mtn Arsenal. This was a 6 square mile area near Denver where Mustard gas, sarin gas and other chemical weapons were producted and tested from WWI to Vietnam. It was considered one of the most contaminated sites in the world. Some operations required operators to use supplied air or SCBA and Level C PPE. There are 2 subtiltle C landfills on the arsenal and one of those (The Enhanced HWL) far exceeds subtitle C requirements due to the nature of the contaminats disposed there. About half those 6 square miles required earth work. There were several small dozers deployed there by numerous different contractors retained by the Dept of Defense. They were all Cat. I spent almost all my time doing on-site inspections. Often just watching dozers push dirt. Some of the best equipment operators on the planet were on this project. The requirements were as high as I have ever seen. Safety was beyond believe. If you were stung by a bee or nicked your finger with a pocket knife, it had to be fully reported and investigated and I mean that literally. There were cases of operators being escorted to the gates and released for what would have gone unnoticed on most coal mines. The point is this. Why did these high level contractors use Cat dozers? What do they know or not know that causes them to select Cat? In fact, I remember the adage at the arsenal, that if it is a dozer, it has to be a Cat. There was always other brands when it came to loaders, trucks, excavators, compactors, etc. But not when it came to Dozers. I have nothing other than this observation to support the conclusion that for whatever reason, all things considered, the big earth moving operations use Cat! Maybe change is on the way and my observation is dated. That is alright by me. I don't own Cat stock anymore!
 
Last edited:

RKO

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
181
Location
NE.
I think You are doing what you accused others of doing "putting a plug in for you favorite machine"
I don't care what brand a machine is. I want the best machine for the job.
John Deere and Komatsu has came a long way the last few years.
In the smaller Dozers from my experience John Deere is better than Cat.
Larger Dozers it is between Cat and Komatsu, John Deere just does not have a big machine.
I just ran the new D7E and was impressed with it and it will be interesting to see how it stands up in the long run.
 

Greg

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
1,175
Location
Wi
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
I will admit to having a few biased bones in my body. When it comes to both working on them, operating them and looking at production at the end of the day i will take my Cats hands down over the Deeres any day and twice on Sunday.
 

Dickjr.

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
1,484
Location
Kentucky
As a owner/operator I steer away from CAT for one simple reason. I don't have a multi million dollar equipment line up. Our Komatsu and Deere dealer here in KY seem to try to help me out when possible. I bought a used D39 out of the rental fleet , after running it 100 hrs the under carraige was making the high pitch dry pin squeel ,so I called the dealer , they sent out a tech he said the pins and bushings were shot. I called my salesman he put it before the branch board and they agreed to pay for 1/2 of the new uc. This sealed the deal with me on this dealer. Cat would have probably told me to go get f@#@##. I'm not brand loyal I like anything that will dig , be efficient and low maintenance.
 

Lee-online

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
1,023
Location
In a van, down by the river
There is a reason Cat has the majority of the market share, It could be the quality of its equipment, it could be its service, it could be its parts availability, it could be how cat and its dealers stand behind and support their customers, It could be how the equipment holds it value, it could be the financing offered or it could be a combination of all.
 

PCSHAY

Active Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
40
Location
California
Best?

There was a time I would've agreed with this post. When I worked for CAT dealers I thought they were the greatest company ever. They were always trying to improve and make a better machine. They were very progressive and forward looking. I toured the factories and they were the most modern around. But then they came out with the high drive and that was it for me. Why increase the amount of track when that is a machines biggest expense? I can hear the outrage now so I'll leave it at that. I have also operated International and Case machines that had better blade control.
 

inyati13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
211
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Farming
Thanks for the responses. To be human is to be biased. But my observation was not an opinion, personal prefererence or choice. It was what I saw in 40 years in the field. It is not proof that Cat is the best. My intent was to get just the kind of responses I got. Not one response can discount what we all know. In dozers, Cat owns the market. That is the point. Why? Whether they are better, etc. is subject to further scrutiny. But their dominance of the market is undeniable and there is a reason and purpose behind everything.
 

farm_boy

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
369
Location
The sunflower state
Just because they own the market now doesn't mean they always did or will continue to do so forever. They used to dominate the motorgrader market too. Look where being "forward thinking" and "innovative" got them there.

Bar none...the reason that Cat leads market share in so many categories is because they have THE strongest dealer network in North America. The reason the Deere is the strong number two player in North America is because Deere has the second strongest dealer network. It doesn't matter how good the product is itself if there isn't a dealer to support it contractors will be looking for an alternative.
 

Dickjr.

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
1,484
Location
Kentucky
Thanks for the responses. To be human is to be biased. But my observation was not an opinion, personal prefererence or choice. It was what I saw in 40 years in the field. It is not proof that Cat is the best. My intent was to get just the kind of responses I got. Not one response can discount what we all know. In dozers, Cat owns the market. That is the point. Why? Whether they are better, etc. is subject to further scrutiny. But their dominance of the market is undeniable and there is a reason and purpose behind everything.

You can't tell me politics doesn't play a role here with Cat. Tax incentives etc, plus most goverment jobs road work or reclamamtion and the like. There has to be a lot of " free trips to evaluate my machinery " to insure they go Cat. You buy a new 6 and try to make a living with out federal monies and see how far that goes. I did and it didn't go. My point as an owner operator is that you must look at every angle to generate capital . The amount of spoilage padded into funded jobs more than compensates for the price of equipment. Economy is another , So pushing all this TIGER road crap is padding alot of pockets.
 

PCSHAY

Active Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
40
Location
California
CATS only real competitor in the dozer field was Euclid/Terex and when the gov't broke up GM it stifled development. If gov't hadn't meddled and barring construction slowdowns just think what might have been. Many innovations came from manufacturers other than CAT. We might have roller bearing tracks with self-rotating bushings and track components with lubricant impregnated into them to reduce wear. I think CAT is onto something with the new D7E but if they had competition it might have come 10 years sooner. Politics definitely played a role as CAT dominates the market much more than GM ever did and it hasn't been broken up.
 

jrm1504

Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
23
Location
Yakima, wa
Occupation
Apple farmer from central Wa
Just because they own the market now doesn't mean they always did or will continue to do so forever. They used to dominate the motorgrader market too. Look where being "forward thinking" and "innovative" got them there.

Bar none...the reason that Cat leads market share in so many categories is because they have THE strongest dealer network in North America. The reason the Deere is the strong number two player in North America is because Deere has the second strongest dealer network. It doesn't matter how good the product is itself if there isn't a dealer to support it contractors will be looking for an alternative.

I'd throw in that Cat has been building construction equipment longer than has Deere. Time breeds loyalty. I would rate the two companies dealer networks pretty close to each other. You don't have to travel far to find one.

Cat came out with their challenger line of rubber tracked ag tractors about a decade ago. That didn't work out too well for them. Tough to claim superior dealer network when going against Deere.

I claim to be bias free...I bought stock in both companies :)
 

ih100

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Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
731
Location
Peterborough UK
CATS only real competitor in the dozer field was Euclid/Terex and when the gov't broke up GM it stifled development. If gov't hadn't meddled and barring construction slowdowns just think what might have been. Many innovations came from manufacturers other than CAT. We might have roller bearing tracks with self-rotating bushings and track components with lubricant impregnated into them to reduce wear. I think CAT is onto something with the new D7E but if they had competition it might have come 10 years sooner. Politics definitely played a role as CAT dominates the market much more than GM ever did and it hasn't been broken up.

I think some would argue that International at one time and Allis Chalmers were stiffer competition than Terex/Euclid, and once they were out of the way Komatsu were ready to step in. Be interesting to see what LiuGong do with the Dressta line - be good to see the big two have some real competition above 25 tonnes, and good for the industry.
 

Lee-online

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Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
1,023
Location
In a van, down by the river
CATS only real competitor in the dozer field was Euclid/Terex and when the gov't broke up GM it stifled development. If gov't hadn't meddled and barring construction slowdowns just think what might have been. Many innovations came from manufacturers other than CAT. We might have roller bearing tracks with self-rotating bushings and track components with lubricant impregnated into them to reduce wear. I think CAT is onto something with the new D7E but if they had competition it might have come 10 years sooner. Politics definitely played a role as CAT dominates the market much more than GM ever did and it hasn't been broken up.

You mean likes cats system one tracks.

Competition is good. without it there would be no need for developments and the customer would get shafted.
 

PCSHAY

Active Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
40
Location
California
You mean likes cats system one tracks.

Competition is good. without it there would be no need for developments and the customer would get shafted.

I meant roller bearings in the chain and lubricant impregnated on the "outside" of track components much as molybdenum is impregnated in some cylinders. I'm not a chemist or engineer that's their job to develop. The point was exactly that competition stirs innovation. It was just an example of what might have been long ago.
 

mitch504

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Feb 27, 2010
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5,776
Location
Andrews SC
It would be difficult to beat my local Cat dealer for supporting old machinery.

The only bad point about deere support I have found is their rabid territoriality. If you go on their find-a-dealer site from a zipcode in one dealers territory, they won't show you any of another dealer's branches, even if they are closer.
 

firetruck dvr.

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Jun 22, 2008
Messages
36
Location
Little Rock, AR
Occupation
Full time firefighter engineer, and part time heav
There is a reason Cat has the majority of the market share, It could be the quality of its equipment, it could be its service, it could be its parts availability, it could be how cat and its dealers stand behind and support their customers, It could be how the equipment holds it value, it could be the financing offered or it could be a combination of all.

I could not agree more!!
 

Aussie Leroy

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Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
253
Location
Victoria Australia
In my part of Australia Cats would out number John Deere's 50 to 1 plus and in my 35+ years only ever sat in a JD 350 ??????? once. I guess John Deere construction has never been pushed Like John Deere Ag has in my neck of the woods. Cheers Leroy
 

Brianna

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May 15, 2011
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3
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Occupation
Heavy Equipment Operator
Neither ! I have operated only one Cat in my few short years as an operator, it was an alright machine but I found it to be not as good when it came to doing some fine grading. They are nothing in comparison to my 350B Case..she may be a little machine but she can push some major dirt !
 

dneedelman

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
10
Location
Santa Maria
Cat would have probably told me to go get f@#@##. I'm not brand loyal I like anything that will dig , be efficient and low maintenance

I think you have the wrong idea about Cat dealers. They are the market leader for there support & parts availability. The Cat Dealership I use works with me extremely well & in similar situations has either covered the entire cost or split it 3-ways between themselves, Cat & me.

Give them a shot I bet you would be pleasantly suprised
 

Deereman

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Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
440
Location
Georgia
inyati13;294158t[/QUOTE said:
I'll throw out a few random things regarding what you and others have said.
Deere hasn't had the name in the constructions business as long as cat but think deere has been building a crawler since around the late 40's. Some of the reason the major contractors have all cat is price, a decent product, and a long standing relationship. When someone buys 50 or more machines from you cat usually gives them such a deal just to stay with them. Yes service and parts do come into play. But to think someone is going to take that market from them over night is just wrong. On the bigger end of the spectrum(d8 and up) cat will remain on top. But on the smaller end deere has been hitting them hard. Most people will say when the h-series came out in 1999 for deere but it was the g's that really started eating into that gap. Now when the 750 and 850 size came out in the late 70" they didn't do much to put a dent in. But in recent years with the c and j series its hard not to go anywhere and find a deere dozer. And there is a few reasons for that. People are starting to realize that deere is here to stay. More dealers . More parts inventory depots are coming online. Service is getting better. Machines are getting better and better.etc etc. Like I said its not going to be an all of a sudden thing. As long as deere can keep the little guy growing as well as the big they will continue to grow as well.
 
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