Any risk of machine damage?

[sawerewolf]

Within the next month I will be doing a job where I will have to dig foundations but first have to clear the site. However, the site is covered in grass lawn. Now, I've found that clearing a lawned site is tricky using only the loader bucket which is fitted with a blade instead of teeth. The blade cuts properly for the first foot or so but then slips so that it just glides over the lawn. What I usually do then is to rip the lawn using the backhoe before "dozing" it away with the loader bucket. This works fine on small areas but is very time-consuming on large sites. The site I'll be working on is totally flat like a bowling green and I thought of maybe lowering the backhoe bucket until the teeth just penetrate the grass level and then just driving forward, thus dragging the backhoe on the ground like a plow. But I'm worried about if this is really a good idea and whether there are any chances of causing any damage to the machine?

[tuney443]

No offense,but if you can't figure out how to strip sod,how are you going to excavate a foundation??????The answer is no to your question,unless you really,really want to pull a giant wheelie and /or get yourself hurt/killed. Sorry to be so blunt,but I'm truly telling you like it is.

[Steve Frazier]

If your blade is skating over the grass, then you don't have the blade angle set up right. You might be better off if you make a full length perpendicular cut with the backhoe, then set a level bucket at just below the root line. This should work better in peeling the sod.

[sawerewolf]

Hmmm... Thing bout bucket angle is, do have it right, usually but still blade skips up. Dont wanna angle too sharp either though. One thing to remember is that our soil conditions and turf types are a lot different than what you have in the US or UK, which makes the same job loads different, even when all other factors remain the same elsewhere. But yeah...

[Squizzy246B]

We do a lot of lawn removals. Its all about getting the angle of the bucket correct and making fine adjustments as you go. Our soil types are similar to SA. Teeth are not necassary but help in harder ground. I imagine it would be harder to control with a TLB than a loader. Is your cutting edge nice and sharp...if not, take to it with an 60 or 80 grit flapper wheel on a 5" grinder and give it a good clean up, nice and smooth.

Here is some old pics of the rake we use on our skid. It works brilliant for lawn removal.

[sawerewolf]

No offense Tuney, but in the 19 months I've been doing this job, I've already dug 47 foundations for brick houses, only 5 of which are still under construction. The others are all completed and occupied by their owners. I might not have the length of service or experience you guys have, but locally I've earned a reputation as being one of the most skilled operators around. But personally I think thats just cos all the others are just plain lazy buggers who are afraid to do anything more complicated than the sort of stuff learners do. Enough of that though.... Squizzy... Interesting rake that. Would like to know more bout its design and how it works. Forgot to add that we rarely have to deal with lawn clearing as its mostly field grass and bushes where we are building now.

[OneWelder]

Your first post reads like someone with far less experience than 47 foundations
I agree with the others about bucket angle .I would also ask if bucket bushings and hydraulics are tight or to worn and sloppy to hold your cut

[sawerewolf]

Yeah well, I tend to sometimes use a lot more words than is actually needed to say what needs to be said. Bad habit. So far as I can tell the bushings etc are still bout same as when I first started using the machine (had 4hrs on the clock back then and now stands at just over 1750hrs). This is of course based on feel when operating though. Dunno if that counts but thats as close as I can tell without actually measuring.

[Dustin Mason]

Interesting concept, stripping sod pulling the 'hoe bucket. Let's look into the future with our "crystal ball." The first pass or two may very well work out for you on perfectly level ground, but you are going to end up creating piles and windrows that will throw a set of wheels off level. Even worse, soon one set of tire tracks will be on stripped ground and the other set will be on sod.
That should provide your answer.

I have never been to South Africa, but I have stripped plenty of sod. Lots of it with the loader on a loader/backhoe. I have on occasion taken the hoe bucket and stripped an area the machine will fit in and went from there. It all depends on the conditions.

Is this sod being stored separately from stripped topsoil, do you have to carefully separate the topsoil from the sod? Here in West Virginia sod rots up pretty quickly when piled up.

What is your time worth, is it more economically feasible to rent/hire a machine that will quickly do what you need done?
Just some things to think about when considering your options.

Your idea won't hurt your machine, except maybe if you have the Extendahoe fully extended to get the bucket to the ground, or you try to back up with the bucket down and it catches on something.
I did that second one once with my Case 580C. Cleaning out our cattle barn, the ceiling is low so I had the hoe down near the ground and upon backing up the rear bucket linkage caught on a concrete lip and the force pulled and snapped the dipper cylinder eye from around its pin. There is a lot of leverage there. That was an expensive day.

Let us know what you decide to do.

Dustin

[skata]

i think your problem is using the backhoe. too much flex in the tires, and your blade goes up and down.
try inflating the tires near max pressure so you dont get to much tire flex.

[CM1995]

This may be a dumb question but why does it matter if you have scallops in the ground after the sod is removed - you gotta dig a basement in the same place? Digging, installing and backfilling a basement is going to re-arrange all the dirt anyway.:beatsme

Also I wouldn't suggest driving around with the backhoe bucket in the ground - to much shock load on the components.

[sawerewolf]

Ok based on your replies.... Dustin, you say you've done it before and it works well. The area where it will be is totally flat, so that is why I thought to try this method to save time. Obviously on bumpy surfaces it is a very bad idea. I realize that. Crazy I may be, but I'm not THAT crazy or stupid. The sods that pile up at the end of each run would be pushed out of the way of course to avoid it making a bump which could cause damage. After first lifting hoe bucket. As for sod storage, I dont know yet whether the clients want to have it separate from the soil, but just in case, I would keep it separate. Never know. Hiring a machine specifically for that? Dunno if there is such machine here, but even if there was, I dont see it being worth the cost. CM1995... No basements though. Basements are terribly rare here in SA. In fact, I dont recall ever having been in or visiting a house in my life that had a basement. Skata... Good point bout tyre pressure. Will see what difference that makes.

[CM1995]

OOPS - sometimes in my mind the word foundation just naturally translates into basement.:D

[directorz]

Don't do it. All pressure is directly transferred to the hydraulic cylinders and lines. Even if you don't catch a rock, there is still tremendous pressure and the chance of blowing a line or worse - rupturing a cylinder - is high and extremely costly.

[d4c24a]

i would use the backhoe if the ground is to hard for the front,put on the 3ft or your grading bucket (which ever works best) strip it into windrows and push off with the front bucket,driving around with the backhoe down is a waste of fuel and will damage the machine
good luck
cheers graham

[lgammon]

i don't think you are going to hurt the machine, even if you catch somthing your bypass will open and keep the pressure from hurting the hydrolic system. now with that said i think that it would not help that much and you would look like a complete moron(not to be mean). and i would agee with the three foot bucket idea. i think i would just make lines across the site with the three foot bucket except i would make them 10 foot wide or so as you go, and make them 6-8 foot apart then clean the whole mess up with the front end. you can move alot of dirt with the back end of a tlb if you open it up and stay with it

[zhkent]

I agree with Squizzy. A sharp edge on the bucket can make a lot of difference.
Teeth would make a difference.
Another idea, is there farm equipment around that could disk or chisel it for you?

[sawerewolf]

This is what our sites usually look like when I have to clear them. As you can see, there's no lawn visible anywhere.

[BlkAngusMan]

Can you really blow a hydrolic line by putting to much pressure on a bucket?

[tuney443]

Usually, only when the hose is at the fatigue point of rupturing.

[tuney443]

No offense Tuney, but in the 19 months I've been doing this job, I've already dug 47 foundations for brick houses, only 5 of which are still under construction. The others are all completed and occupied by their owners. I might not have the length of service or experience you guys have, but locally I've earned a reputation as being one of the most skilled operators around. But personally I think thats just cos all the others are just plain lazy buggers who are afraid to do anything more complicated than the sort of stuff learners do. Enough of that though.... Squizzy... Interesting rake that. Would like to know more bout its design and how it works. Forgot to add that we rarely have to deal with lawn clearing as its mostly field grass and bushes where we are building now.

No offense taken.Like someone else said,you sounded green in your first post--that's all.

[SouthOnBeach]

i think its all about gettin your bucket angled right, adjusting as you go and taking a deep enough cut. if you have hard dirt and are only tryin to take an inch off it, its goin to be a very hard task. if your takin 3 inches off then its goin to be a lot easier.

[nedly05]

Sometimes you just have to take a little more than you want for the sake of getting the job done. Just get it scraped off so you can get to diggin'

[JDOFMEMI]

One thing to remember, is that the hydraulic relief valve is set to relieve pump pressure. The hold valve that keeps the cylinder where you put it is downstream from the relief valve. The assumption is that there will be no more pressure than the pump will put into the line past the relief valve, but when you hold position then add load, such as driving around with the boom down and bucket dragging, it could cause a pressure spike in the stick cylinder lines that could cause a hose or even a cylinder to break. I have witnesed cylinders split open from end to end due to being overloaded by leverage applied while in the hold position.
In the normal digging position there would probably be no problem, but the added leverage of the position the boom and stick would be in to drive around with the bucket in the ground could cause that situation.

I suggest either adding teeth to the front bucket, or scraping the ground in the regular digging position.

Best of luck, and keep us posted.
By the way, Nice machine

[tylermckee]

Like jerry said you could cause some damage. just last week we had a guy blow apart the stick cylinder on a 580l by trying to lock the boom in place with the extenda hoe all the way out with a plate compactor mounted. He's inexperienced and not to good at locking the boom in place, meaning he gave her full throttle and jerked the boom controll around like a 10 year old. blew the whole head off the cylinder.

The same kind of forces could possibly be applied to your machine. I would say get some teeth, and hone in your sod stripping skills. You may be a good operator but bottom line is you still havent been doing it that long.

[CM1995]

Like jerry said you could cause some damage. just last week we had a guy blow apart the stick cylinder on a 580l by trying to lock the boom in place with the extenda hoe all the way out with a plate compactor mounted. He's inexperienced and not to good at locking the boom in place, meaning he gave her full throttle and jerked the boom controll around like a 10 year old. blew the whole head off the cylinder.

:eek: I think that guy worked for me once!:rolleyes:

[JDOFMEMI]

:eek: I think that guy worked for me once!:rolleyes:

Yea, He was probably looking for a job after I fired him:Banghead :Banghead