Powerstroke observations and questions

[P Backus]

I have 3 Ford/ Navistar diesel F-250s.

1990 , 7.3 non-powerstroke, E4OD tranny, 3.73 gears
Truck has 451,000 miles on and has been just excellent. Never left me stranded. No engine work, ever, other than an injection pump.

1996 , 7.3 Powerstroke, 5 speed, 3.73 gears
Truck has 330,000 miles and has been a good truck, but has left me stranded far too many times, mainly due to serpentine belt component/bearing failures, and Powerstroke electrical engineering stupidity. However, engine had nice power.

2001, 2nd generation 7.3 Powerstroke, 6 speed, 3.73 gears
Just got it last fall and put it into service in March. 70,000 miles. I have put about 8000 miles on since I got it, with about 1250 in the last three days. There are lots of things that I don't like as well about this truck (tranny gear ratio spacing seems... odd, etc.) however, the main question/problem I have here, is that even though it is rated at 275 hp ('96= 215, '90=185)
IT IS A TOTAL DOG!

It just doesn't seem to have any guts. Passing can be downright dangerous. Just in normal driving I find myself winding it out to 2500, 2600 rpm just so it can stay in turbo boost range when I grab the next gear. All three trucks have pulled the same enclosed trailer, only about 3000 lbs, but with a lot of wind resistance due height and width, but this one is about the worst of the three for pulling. My foot is always on the floor.


And for the pleasure of this de-tuned performance, I am rewarded with decreased fuel economy- 11.5 mpg!

Air cleaner is new.
I don't see or hear any leaks in air/air intercooler.
It seems to run just fine with no missing or waste gate back pressure issues.
I can hear the turbo, so I believe that it is working as it's supposed to.

So- is this normal? Should I take it somewhere to see if there are any codes set in the compuker?
Have any of you experienced a power reduction in the later 7.3 Powerstrokes?
Do I just buy "the chip" so I can gain a bit of power and fuel economy? Do you really gain fuel economy with a chip? What is the recommended "chip" to get?

Kind of irrigated with this truck. Kinda makes me want to repower it with a Cummins 855 like I have in my LTS 9000.;)

Tanks for your toughts.:D

Paul

[9420pullpan]

ditch the fords
buy a Duramax

[P Backus]

Yah, yah!*** *** ***

Maybe if I could get one without it being attached to a Chebby!

At least Navistar doesn't sound like a sneeze.

***ahhhh---Isuzu!!***
:pointlaugh


Actually I have heard that guys do like them a lot. Mebee next time!

Paul

[Copenhagen]

You might look at the up-pipes. If they are leaking, you arent getting full boost. There are a few other things you can look at.

Try www.thedieselstop.com

I am a member there. There are 77,000 members so information is readily available.

[P Backus]

Okay, thanks.

Wouldn't I be able to hear a leak after the turbo as a hissing sound when under full throttle? I suppose that if it's a small enough leak, then no.

I wonder if I could put 10 or 20 psi of shop air (with engine off) into the turbo intake to listen for leaks. Anybody ever done that? Otherwise how do you find a small leak? How small of a leak does it take to affect it this much? What is normal boost pressure?

Paul

[Copenhagen]

You can use a PVC plug with a fitting to blow air into the intake. I do this everytime I work on my turbo or intercooler tubes. Be very careful as the turbo housing doesnt really like more than 25 psi.

In a stock configuration, you should be able to hit 15 psi at full throttle.

A leak in the system can have dramatic affects even though it doesnt seem like much air is getting out.

Are you blowing a ton of black smoke? That is telltale that you have a boost leak. Also, check your intercooler tubes. Make sure your clamps are tight, especially at the y-pipe manifold.

[P Backus]

Nope, no black smoke at all.

I should really spend some time looking at all the connections as you suggested, but initially I didn't see any red flags. A quick visual of the intercooler tubes shows no stone damage.

Any idea off hand what size the PVC plug is? I assume you put it right on the turbo intake? Do you use a rubber plug, or a cap type of thing? I can regulate my shop air down to 15 or 20 psi then so I don't "disassemble" the system!

Thanks for your help so far.

Paul

[Steve Frazier]

I've got an '01 F-350 7.3 with the 4R100 and 3.73 gears. I regularly get 15 mpg and have seen a best of 16.5 on an extended trip. I've had a '95 and '97 PowerStroke as well and this truck has more power than either of them. I've been through 4 trannys though in 65,000 miles and have replaced the CPS and have had a manifold crack.

My '02 7.3 has the same problems as you describe. It's low on power, smokes on acceleration and gets poor fuel mileage. That truck is a 550 with 4.86 gears and the 6 speed, it should pull a house. I only have power at the higher rpms as you describe, there's no low end grunt and with my gears there ought to be.

[P Backus]

4 Trannys in 65,000 miles!
What in the ever-lovin heck do you do to them?!:laugh
You are supposed to lift your right foot off the floor when you shift from forward to reverse!!!

So what's the verdict between your 01 and 02? You're right, the 550 with 4.86s out to be able to push you back in your seat when you step on it. Have you done anything about it?

Something must not be right with your 02, or my 01.

Paul

[jazak]

Get a '04 or newer 6.0L diesel. My buddy has a '04 F550 and we passed a guy in a Chevy going up a hill pulling 12,00lb.s!!! (He was going 60mph)

I've also had a '92 with the 7.3L and it was a good truck. The Drumax's are great I hear. I had there 6.5L in a '98, biggest POS I ever bought.

The 6.4L's I hear are supposed to be decent. A guy here just bought one, really really quiet & has tons of power!

[KSSS]

My dad has an 01 Powerstroke with a manual. He put a chip in and it made all the difference. More power and better mileage.

I am a big Duramax fan but I have seen an erosion in the mileage as well. I cant complain about power but the mileage should be better I think. I had an 01 K3500 excab that got around 18 over the road and 16.5 in semi stop an go traffic. Banks exhaust was all I did to it. I had Edge chip on it and took it off. I put 85K on that truck owned since new the only issue was a computer that took a dump but was covered under extended warranty (pulled the guts out of it and no injector or tranny problems). I traded that on an 06 K3500 crew cab. I get like 13 MPG. I put a Corsa exhaust under it. Power is there. It will spin the dual tires with a fully loaded gooseneck equipment trailer from a stop at will. I am considering chipping it to get at least 15 mpg is my hope. I also have an 05 5500 4X4 crew cab that gets 13 mpg unloaded and 8-9 loaded. My 03 2500 crew cab got 21 mpg over the road with the stock tires on it.

I am guessing it will only get worse as the EPA continues its mission of eliminating the diesel engine from the North American market.

[Steve Frazier]

Original tranny in the '01 went the first time at 22,000 miles, it got stuck in 1st and 2nd at the same time. Boy did that make an awful noise!! The dealer opted to "repair" the tranny rather than replace it.

I knew the day I picked the truck up that there was something still wrong with the tranny, it wasn't shifting like it did when it was new. I took it back to the dealer who repaired it, no luck, took it to another dealer, no luck. Called Ford in Dearborn, they said it was out of their hands. Ford policy is unless there is a catastrophic failure or a bad computer code, they assume nothing is wrong and will not authorize repairs. That tranny got so bad at 38,000 miles that I had it replaced by a performance transmission shop.

That transmission failed at 60,000 miles last fall. When I dropped the pan, there was a broken spring stuck to the magnet in the pan. The shop that built it (in Arkansas) sent me a new one no charge. I put it in and it's been running fine since.

I use the truck daily in my business, and tow a 7000 lb trailer along with snowplowing. I don't beat the truck by any means, but I do work it, that's what I dropped $35K for.

I haven't been able to get a Ford dealer to admit there's a problem with my '02, there's no code showing. I show them the soot on the mudflap, and tell them of the smoke but it doesn't matter. No code, no problem. None of my other PowerStrokes have smoked or thrown soot (unless the chip is set to 80:naughty) so this is abnormal for a stock 'Stroke. The dealer's in my area are incompetent, I could fill a whole page with the problems I've had with both the '01 and '02 and the dealers who have attempted to repair them. One dropped the 550 off the lift and smashed the driver's fender!!:eek: I'll be hard pressed to buy another Ford truck.

[Duke]

I would say P Backus' truck needs to go to an experienced diesel mechanic to see if there's any codes or other issues first.

Putting a chip or other diesel modifications on an improperly running truck is just masking an existing problem and isn't a good choice. Get your truck thoroughly checked-out first, then decide if you still want to add power.

[P Backus]

True enough.

I guess I was just wondering if that's how it's supposed to be. I expected it to have at least as much, if not more power than the '96. Instead it is definetly wimpier. But then I wondered if they just want you to wind it out higher to get the power. In all other ways it seems to run well enough.

I need to get it to where they can read the codes, if any.

Thanks,

Paul

[Duke]

True enough.

I guess I was just wondering if that's how it's supposed to be. I expected it to have at least as much, if not more power than the '96. Instead it is definetly wimpier. But then I wondered if they just want you to wind it out higher to get the power. In all other ways it seems to run well enough.

I need to get it to where they can read the codes, if any.

Thanks,

Paul

It should be more powerful than a '96. There's something wrong with your truck. I assume you have changed the fuel filter? Tighten all your intercooler hoses. Make sure you have oil up on the dipstick. (HEUI injectors need plentiful fresh oil). New air filter and good fresh fuel. After that, take it to an experienced electronic/HEUI diesl mechanic, not joe blow's service station and have them check for codes, then have them check fuel pressure, oil pressure, boost, etc.

If you have a local dyno shop, throw it on the rollers and make sure it's making at least 215-225 RWHP.

[Ford LT-9000]

I don't think its been mentioned but are you sure the clutch isn't slipping ?

It could have enough holding power at lower rpms then it starts to slip at highway speeds ?

It does sound like you have a Ford dealer that has no clue. The 7.3 PSD has decent power I had a 95 PSD it was good I have a 03 6.0 and now have some problems with the turbo :mad:

The PSD does need a good brand of 15w40 oil and changed at a regular basis because as Duke says the HEUI (Hydraulic Electric Unit Injector) needs good oil or no worky.

I had a 89 7.3 IDI I would have kept the truck if I had some history on the engine it was a used engine in the truck and I didn't even know how many kilometers on it. It gave me 4 years of good service it wasn't big power by any means but it did the job. I never put anything into the IDI but glow plugs I never touched the IP or injectors.

My 95 the engine ran good but the poor truck was driven the crap out of it seen a abusive life before I got it. The only thing I put into it was a CPS.

The new emissions rules are killing light truck diesels it doesn't matter if its Ford Chevy or Dodge. The new emission rules is hurting the trucking industry with class 8 trucks.

With the light duty trucks you need a good dealer with properly trained mechanics to do the repairs and diagnosing. The 6.0 PSD was bad because the mechanics working on them didn't know how to repair them. Ford also rushed to put the 6.0 into service. The 6.0 problem is just as bad as the 6.5 Chevy problems. Dodge has had their fair share of problems but they are not so announced because Dodge sells less diesel trucks than Ford or Chev.

I think the way it is now a person is better off buying a medium duty truck over buying a 450-550 Ford or 4500-5500 Chev or Dodges new 4500. For what your paying for a light duty chassis you can buy a medium duty truck for a little more but will last a million miles.

[nedly05]

ditch the fords
buy a Duramax

We have 2 duramax, 1 in a 3500 one in a 5500. Both excellent motors. I know 4 people who had to do head gaskets before 60,000 with a 6 liter.....

[nedly05]

Hey Duke,

I'd love to see some pics of this bad boy:

'92 IH-4800 4x4 Dumptruck: DT466@250HP, 7 speed, Fabco airshift transfer case & front axle. Godwin 12' dumpbox w/ air tailgate, 385/22.5 front flotation tires, 12R22.5 rear rubber. :thumbsup

[Duke]

Hey Duke,

I'd love to see some pics of this bad boy:

'92 IH-4800 4x4 Dumptruck: DT466@250HP, 7 speed, Fabco airshift transfer case & front axle. Godwin 12' dumpbox w/ air tailgate, 385/22.5 front flotation tires, 12R22.5 rear rubber. :thumbsup

Enjoy!

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/5644/2379877970034043331S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2379877970034043331wsvQJh)

http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/5331/2608355170034043331S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2608355170034043331SljYNd)

http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/4304/2956752200034043331S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2956752200034043331hKeWvx)

[Copenhagen]

We have 2 duramax, 1 in a 3500 one in a 5500. Both excellent motors. I know 4 people who had to do head gaskets before 60,000 with a 6 liter.....

If they were the early 6.0's I dont doubt it. I imagine they also had a chip or a programmer on them too.

[tylermckee]

i have an 00 f350 crew cab long bed, stock except for banks exhaust, exhaust brake, banks trans command, and a couple other smaller things that dont improve performance. I Hit ~20PSI and have plenty of power, along with nearly 20 mpg with all highway, cruise set at 65-75.:beatsme maybe im lucky

[thejdman04]

what about the fuel filter

[Duke]

It's human nature to suspect complex problems when your vehicle is not running like it should, but 9 times out of 10 it's a simple filter, clamp or adjustment.

I had a guy come over my place with a bad running powerstroke. This genius replaced most of the sensors, drained & cleaned his tank, probably spent $500-$1,000 and many hours of time and here all he had was a contaminated fuel filter. :Banghead

[P Backus]

But it's Murphy's law that my problems can never be simple ones!;)

In the past it has seemed like others have the simple ones, and I always get the obscure ones.

Your suggestion is a good one though (both Duke and jdman04), and I will change out the filter, just to eliminate that as a possibility. I sure doesn't seem like a filter though. I have had filters get blocked up on lots of different engines, and they will starve for fuel when the power demand is higher. This thing has been the same for 8000 miles. It always pulls consistently, but slowly.

Thanks! I will pick up a filter the next time I'm in town. I'll try to post back and let all know if that took care of it or whatever it turns out to be. I'm sure that the clutch isn't slipping though.

Paul

[Captain Morgan]

I have owned several of the 7.3 PowerChoke Diesels, Usually a flash of the ecm by a trained professional will fix the problem. You will need to make sure that you have heeded most of the advise above pertaining to servicing the unit. Any more questions email me pipelinemechanic@yahoo.com

[Ford LT-9000]

A familly friends 97 F-350 P/U with PSD power had to have the computeer replaced because the old one was making the injectors fire on the wrong firing order. It was at the local repair shop and the mechanic is a PSD fan he couldn't figure out what was causing it to start so hard. The starter was changed the batteries were changed. It sounded like the engine was coming up hard. It was the first PSD I ever heard of having that problem.

I remember back in 94 when the PSD was first born everybody thought it was a voodoo engine it was new technology. When people were used to the basic tried and true mechanical 7.3 IDI and its predesesor 6.9.

One of my brothers friend was one of the first ones in the area to order a 94 Ford with the DI (PSD) engine.

[Countryboy]

Welcome to HEF Captain Morgan! :drinkup

[P Backus]

The compuker in my '96 failed once- it ran on the right bank of the engine, with the left bank just going along for the ride. Needless to say, it was a slow ride home!

I do believe I would still prefer a mechanical engine with a turbo to any of the computer controlled stuff that emissions has dictated that we have to have.

A flash of the ECM, eh? Don't know anything about it. I will do the above mentioned service first as soon as I get a moment. 18 hour days lately.
Thanks,
Paul

[Mack]

Our 1999 Ford F350 with the 7.3L Power Stroke and 315,000mi will out pull our 2006 F250 with the 6.0 Power Stroke and it only has 52,000mi so it could be the 2000 and newer trucks just have a differnt/weaker moter.

[CascadeScaper]

My dad has a '99 F350 PSD that is a hoss. We have a farm and can legally tow 20K+ behind the truck running our fruit into town a couple days a year. Truck handles this amount of weight no problem, I love PSD's. We had an '01 F450 that wasn't short of awesome either, didn't have it very long but I had 15K behind it a few times pulling some interesting hills without too much trouble.

[Countryboy]

Welcome to HEF Mack! :drinkup

[Mack]

Welcome to HEF Mack! :drinkup

Thank you Countryboy looks like you all have a nice place here.

[Captain Morgan]

All I can say about the PowerChoke is that it gets me to work daily and every couple of months it moves my travel trailer, the combo is around 40,000lbs! (look at the avatar pic). If you dont have any luck with the truck let me know. Thanks again countryboy! My brother lives in Long Co. GA.

[tuney443]

I'm presently on my third Dmax--the LBZ version in my '06 3500SRW.I can't be more positive with any of them,especially this one.Unbelievable power,reliability,quiet--the new Allison 6 speed lets me be only at 2K RPM's at 80.I dislike Fords tremendously,will have to say though,those older 7.3's were good,the 6.0's have more than their share of problems and these new 6.4's are shooting huge flames out the exhaust.I can get a flame-thrower from the hardware store for about $50--don't need to spend $40,000+.

[Duke]

I'm pleasantly surprised at how much I like my GMC. I had an F-450 crewcab 4x4 6.4L utility practically ordered then I got cold feet on the 6.4L. been a Ford man all my life. Decided on a GMC3500. It's a lighter-duty truck, but not in the driveline. The GM Allison trans is a monster. I can manually shift it to hold any gear I want, use tow-haul or use the normal shift setting. GM fianlly put in the 6th gear and gave it a warranty commensurate with this sweet of a transmission. The 11.5" REAL locking rear ain't too shabby, either.

I think Ford had GM beat in light trucks until the Allison/DMAX/11.5" locker came about. Now GM has it over Ford. I still have a '99 7.3L that won't quit, but the trans leaves a LOT to be desired.

[tuney443]

Let's not forget the grade brake feature we have also.Like you said,Ford has a lot of catching up to do.

[Ford LT-9000]

GMC is in trouble they sold Allison transmissions so I doubt you will see them in Chevy/GMC trucks.

All the "North American" auto manufacturers are in trouble they can't compete with the overseas brands.

[Mack]

Going to look at a 2001 Ford F350 with the 7.3 maybe it will be ok.

[Orchard Ex]

GMC is in trouble they sold Allison transmissions so I doubt you will see them in Chevy/GMC trucks.

All the "North American" auto manufacturers are in trouble they can't compete with the overseas brands.

They only sold the heavy duty truck transmission line. They kept the light duty line for the pickups.

[Ford LT-9000]

Thats good then because that is a selling feature for GM. From what I have heard alot of people like the 6spd automatic. The guy I work with his son bought a 3500 Chev with a 9 foot deck. The truck is overloaded its used to haul fish etc. The guy I work with and his son are both Chevy men they won't buy anything but GM vehicals. They said that transmission brake (retarder) works good the truck is grossing 14,000lbs or more with the load on the deck.

One day we had a 2003 F-450 no not mine but another fish hauler the cab size on the Ford is significantly larger. Both regular cab trucks but the cab on the Chevy is still like a old style truck. I can see why Fords tare weight is heavier.

Would I buy I Chevy thats hard to say I have driven enough of them when I worked for the highways dept. Those trucks were used and abused :D

The Chevy dealer in my area doesn't want anything to do with cab and chassis trucks. You bring a 4500 to them they say no we can't work on it.

When Chevy went to that rotten A arm suspension on their 4x4 3/4 tons and 1 tons that killed their use in the resource industry. Chevy 4x4s with the A arm suspension is too low to the ground it doesn't last as long. They could have gone with a live axle and coil springs like Dodge. Chevy used to sell as many 4x4 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks as Ford for work trucks in the Forestry and Mining. The older Chevys had a little tougher driveline because they used the 205 transfercase and the 4 and 5spd tranmissions were cast iron.

The old Suburbans make good bush ambulances because they have the room inside.

One of the forestry contractors was in a bind he didn't have another truck to put in the bush so he put his new Chevy duramax in the bush. After it came back out after a week of being 40 miles up the inlet the poor truck looked like it went through a battle. With the Chevs having litterally no ground clearance the front bumper took a beating the back bumper and parts of the body.

Anyhow enough rambling if you want a good offroad truck you buy a Ford or a Dodge you want a pavement queen 4x4 you buy a Chevy :roll

[tuney443]

Thats good then because that is a selling feature for GM. From what I have heard alot of people like the 6spd automatic. The guy I work with his son bought a 3500 Chev with a 9 foot deck. The truck is overloaded its used to haul fish etc. The guy I work with and his son are both Chevy men they won't buy anything but GM vehicals. They said that transmission brake (retarder) works good the truck is grossing 14,000lbs or more with the load on the deck.

One day we had a 2003 F-450 no not mine but another fish hauler the cab size on the Ford is significantly larger. Both regular cab trucks but the cab on the Chevy is still like a old style truck. I can see why Fords tare weight is heavier.

Would I buy I Chevy thats hard to say I have driven enough of them when I worked for the highways dept. Those trucks were used and abused :D

The Chevy dealer in my area doesn't want anything to do with cab and chassis trucks. You bring a 4500 to them they say no we can't work on it.

When Chevy went to that rotten A arm suspension on their 4x4 3/4 tons and 1 tons that killed their use in the resource industry. Chevy 4x4s with the A arm suspension is too low to the ground it doesn't last as long. They could have gone with a live axle and coil springs like Dodge. Chevy used to sell as many 4x4 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks as Ford for work trucks in the Forestry and Mining. The older Chevys had a little tougher driveline because they used the 205 transfercase and the 4 and 5spd tranmissions were cast iron.

The old Suburbans make good bush ambulances because they have the room inside.

One of the forestry contractors was in a bind he didn't have another truck to put in the bush so he put his new Chevy duramax in the bush. After it came back out after a week of being 40 miles up the inlet the poor truck looked like it went through a battle. With the Chevs having litterally no ground clearance the front bumper took a beating the back bumper and parts of the body.

Anyhow enough rambling if you want a good offroad truck you buy a Ford or a Dodge you want a pavement queen 4x4 you buy a Chevy :roll

Pavement queen--???---Hardly--but I was expecting that from you FordLT--I'm sure you like your handle.Over at the Diesel Place,we have guys coming over from Ford and Dodge every day in buying a new or used Dmax.I'm talking bonafide dyed in the wool Powerjoke and Cummins guys--they realize GM has the best and most powerful drivetrain going.The Allison is so much more superior to anything the other 2 have.If you look just at the mainshaft on the Ally,comparing it to Ford's and Dodges autos,you would think it at first came from a mid-size truck, which actually they are also used in{4500's and 5500's.] I regularly run mine off-road on construction sites/roads--never a problem.I would much rather have a lower truck than Ford or Dodge for better handling on the hiway and getting in at the end of a long day. I'll end mine by saying if you want to keep your shirt clean while drinking your coffee,buy GM,if not,get a Ferd:D

[jmac]

I have never driven a Chevy or GMC but have rode as a passenger. I own a 2006 Ford F350 6.0 crew cab with about 20k on it and so far have no complaints. Truck cost over 40k so it better not give me any problems! I will agree that it rides like a dump truck. I don't go off road everyday, just at job sites and plow in the winter, so I was thinking that next time I could give GM a try if the ride is as nice as everyone says. The truck could be just more comfortable than Ford and if the drive train holds up better. :drinkup

[Duke]

The slight disadvantage in off road capability of my GMC 3500 compared to my F-350 is more than made up by the GMC's superior drivetrain. The DMAX has it all over the new Powerstroke. Look at the torque curve on the DMAX compared to the 6.0 or the 6.4L The DMAX makes it's full 650 ftlbs about 3-400 RPM lower than the Ford. All that with only one turbo and common rail injection. The DMAX is dead-nutz reliable. The 6L was a fiasco, the 6.4L is unproven.

The transmissions aren't even a comparison. The Allison has an extra gear, bigger input shaft, bigger tailshaft and the tap up/down manual shift feature. The Torqshift has none of them. let's face it and Allison transmission compared to a Ford in-house 5 speed trans? No comparison.

The GMC SRW & DRW also comes standard with an 11.5" real mechanical locker. The Ford SRW 250/350 still has the 10.5" Sterling with that cheesy POS limited slip. That alone makes the GM truck better in slippery conditions at the rear axle than the Ford. My F-350 limited slip sucks. I know for a fact my GMC will do better than my Ford in light-mod off road. My Ford might be better for crossing a 4' deep river or going over rocks, but that constitutes about 1% of my driving.

So what do you do? buy a truck for the few times you need to cross a 4' deep river or climb rocks or one that works better the majority of the time you're driving- on pavement, through snow, some mud, etc. ?

I used to be hard-core Ford. Until Ford gets a simpler more reliable diesel, (like the 7.3L) and gets a real rear and transmission, it's GM.

[Mack]

Well we bought the 2001 Ford F350 and so far the check engine light has only come on once.:eek:

[Ford LT-9000]

I don't think you will have too much trouble with the 2001 just carry a spare CPS which is the ignition trigger for the 7.3s.

[P Backus]

Well, I am resurecting an antique thread here. I've been busy, and then was sick and had fairly major surgery, then have been busy again!

The 2001 F-250 still has the same low power problems. I have changed the fuel filter, air cleaner looks new, had the codes pulled and there were none at all. I pressured up the after cooler system with 15psi and couldn't find any obvious leaks, although it kept taking air. My system of getting air in it wasn't perfect either.

I asked the diesel mechanic that works on these about flashing the ECM, and he shrugged and said he didn't think that would help.:beatsme

On a recent trip to South Dakota, it was down to around 8.5 MPG pulling a 2000# S/A trailer. Now admittedly, I was headed west into the wind, and the enclosed trailer is tall, but that seems a little extreme. Throttle was pretty much to the floor to maintain 70mph. There goes the fuel, but why no power?

Also just put new tires on in the standard size of 235/85R16. Doesn't help.

Starts fine, runs fine. Now what? Could the injectors get plugged enough to do that? Doesn't smoke, except the normal blue-ish when cold (this is WI!).

Paul

[jmac]

Did you change both fuel filters? By the way hold onto your shorts when you buy them I just spent $77 for mine!:Banghead

I own a 06' f350 6.0 that would not shift up and just ran like the the fuel was frooze up. The temp here went down to 10 so that made sense to me but after putting truck in heated shop it still had no power. Change both filters the one under the hood and the one on the frame rail and solved the problem. The filters were black in 15,000 miles so the fuel I am getting is dirty. My skid had the same problem changed the fiters, problem solved.

[jeffa215]

I've seen quite a few of these engines at our shop with this symptom. Most of the time I've found it to be an issue with the fuel tanks, some of them form a very fine rust thatessentially clogs the inlet screen (sock). As I am not able to look at your truck I cannot be sure this is happening but definetly check into this as this rust WILL NOT end up in the main filter. Another thing to check is control pressure, very important on these engines. Hope this helps feel free to email me or post more questions

[jughead]

cant believe there aint a dodge in the crowd. all of the dodges i know get better mileage and move more weight than any of the trucks named. my old 90 gets better fuel mileage towing my sons load than his 2000 powerstroke does empty. and it will keep up too.:drinkup

[landrvrnut22]

cant believe there aint a dodge in the crowd. all of the dodges i know get better mileage and move more weight than any of the trucks named. my old 90 gets better fuel mileage towing my sons load than his 2000 powerstroke does empty. and it will keep up too.:drinkup


My 01 dodge gets 20city, 22 highway, and about 17 pulling 9000lb+. And no lack of power 400RWHP, 830FT LB.

However, a word of advice on the powerstroke. The Powerstroke, DT444, DT466, all use 2 oil pumps, a low pressure pump to circulate enigne oil, and a high pressure pump to open the injectors.

Check your high pressure oil pump. If you are not getting enough pressure, your injectors may not be opening fully. I believe it should be somewhere around 2500psi. Also, make sure your oil is topped up.

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums jeffa215! :drinkup

[thejdman04]

My 01 dodge gets 20city, 22 highway, and about 17 pulling 9000lb+. And no lack of power 400RWHP, 830FT LB.

However, a word of advice on the powerstroke. The Powerstroke, DT444, DT466, all use 2 oil pumps, a low pressure pump to circulate enigne oil, and a high pressure pump to open the injectors.

Check your high pressure oil pump. If you are not getting enough pressure, your injectors may not be opening fully. I believe it should be somewhere around 2500psi. Also, make sure your oil is topped up.
The power strokes 444's do use a heui injection system like cat but not 466

[P Backus]

jmac, both fuel filters? This is an '01, and I only know of the one fuel filter/water separator in the V of the engine. Is there something that I'm missing somewhere? I have changed that one with no improvement.



I've seen quite a few of these engines at our shop with this symptom. Most of the time I've found it to be an issue with the fuel tanks, some of them form a very fine rust thatessentially clogs the inlet screen (sock). As I am not able to look at your truck I cannot be sure this is happening but definetly check into this as this rust WILL NOT end up in the main filter. Another thing to check is control pressure, very important on these engines. Hope this helps feel free to email me or post more questions

So are you talking about the inlet screen in the fuel tank? Bummer!

I'm not sure how or where to check control pressure. Is that oil or fuel pressure? Wouldn't a code show up for that?

Also, I'm not clear on how this truck can be using too much fuel if there is a partial blockage of fuel (filter or screen). You'd think that if the engine is starving for fuel, it would be the same or better fuel economy.

Paul

[Preppypyro]

There is actualy quite a few things a person can check out. try checking out ford-trucks.com and check out the diesel section in the forums. Very informative.

I do like the cummins engine, but the bad thing about it, is it has a dodge surrounding it. The cummins may be a tad better of an engine then the powerstroke, but there is no comparison when compared to a ford.

A great truck would be a ford with a cummins put in!

[P Backus]

A great truck would be a ford with a cummins put in!

There is a company that specializes in doing just that- repowering Ford pickups with the 5.9 Cummins. I saw them somewhere on the web.

I have the 5.9 in my combine, so technically I have one of them too!;) :cool2

Thanks for the tip.

Paul

[Preppypyro]

There is a company that specializes in doing just that- repowering Ford pickups with the 5.9 Cummins. I saw them somewhere on the web.

I have the 5.9 in my combine, so technically I have one of them too!;) :cool2

Thanks for the tip.

Paul

Yeah i have seen them around on the web too. When my Powerstroke bites er, I am going to look into doing a cummins swap in my truck. Hopefully that wont be anytime too too soon though!

[tuney443]

There is actualy quite a few things a person can check out. try checking out ford-trucks.com and check out the diesel section in the forums. Very informative.

I do like the cummins engine, but the bad thing about it, is it has a dodge surrounding it. The cummins may be a tad better of an engine then the powerstroke, but there is no comparison when compared to a ford.

A great truck would be a ford with a cummins put in!

And a greater truck would be and is the Duramax---either the LBZ or LMM version and in a Chevy.

[GaryKelley]

Ford had to "detune" all these engines from the factory to meet the FED pollutions standards. They do put out the HP that the factory says they do. However...they are capable of much more.
While there are a lot of companies out there, that manufacture or market chips and "re-programers" see if you can find a local aftermarket store, and see what they are selling. And if anybody tells you that it will void the warranty, don't listen #1) your PU isnt under warranty any longer, and #2) it only creates a warranty issue IF the aftermarket item CAUSES the problem.
I put a chip in MY 2000 F250 when it had 250 miles on it, with NO problems, I also went to a 4" exhaust with an open straight through muffler. It's a little louder than an old man like me cares for, but I would rather see the traffic in my mirror, than my windshield.
I opter for a 50 HP increase chip, and 4" exhaust, K&N air filter, I also wired the turbo warm up gate-valve to act as an exhaust brake. I have 175K miles on it with NO problems. I did replace the turbo intake wheel with an aftermarket last year. Contact me if you need more info..hope this helps..

[Dozerboy]

Ford had to "detune" all these engines from the factory to meet the FED pollutions standards. They do put out the HP that the factory says they do. However...they are capable of much more. Just like any modern diesel pickup.
While there are a lot of companies out there, that manufacture or market chips and "re-programers" see if you can find a local aftermarket store, and see what they are selling. And if anybody tells you that it will void the warranty, don't listen #1) your PU isnt under warranty any longer, and #2) it only creates a warranty issue IF the aftermarket item CAUSES the problem. Yep but that don't mean they won't try and furd has a lot more money for a lawyer then most people if you tried to fight them.
I put a chip in MY 2000 F250 when it had 250 miles on it, with NO problems, I also went to a 4" exhaust with an open straight through muffler. It's a little louder than an old man like me cares for, but I would rather see the traffic in my mirror, than my windshield.
I opter for a 50 HP increase chip, and 4" exhaust, K&N air filter, I also wired the turbo warm up gate-valve to act as an exhaust brake. I have 175K miles on it with NO problems. I did replace the turbo intake wheel with an aftermarket last year. Contact me if you need more info..hope this helps..

I added my .02

FIY for those that don't know there is a newer recall out on the 1997 and up 7.3s for there CPS problem.

[Preppypyro]

And a greater truck would be and is the Duramax---either the LBZ or LMM version and in a Chevy.

I respectfully disagree man. I have experienced a few duramaxes, and although the engine does seem to be OK, no better or no worse then a powerstroke, the truck didnt seem to be as comfrotable, or built as well as a ford. The interiors seemed cheap and rattley.

[PSDF350]

I respectfully disagree man. I have experienced a few duramaxes, and although the engine does seem to be OK, no better or no worse then a powerstroke, the truck didnt seem to be as comfrotable, or built as well as a ford. The interiors seemed cheap and rattley.
And lets not forget the independant front suspension. I'm sorry but a true work truck has tohave a solid front axle.

[Dozerboy]

A Dmax is a better engine in the sense that it is more powerful. Not that the 7.3 was bad the 6.0 is a POS though and with the Ally trans that make GM a better truck IMO. How does a interior seem cheaper there all made out of plastic now days.:o SFA don't hold up much better then IFS in fact its little better since there is no axlerap in 4WD and IFS rides a lot better.

[PSDF350]

I disagree a solid front axle is much stronger. Yes my truck rides like a truck. But hey thats what I have a truck. If I want a nice ride I will buy a car. I know there have been issues with the 6.0l psd. But mine has been good to me and have no complaints. Heres a couple pics of my truck with a 950# plow. I have seen many chevy gmc trucks with them and they just don't hold it as well.

[Preppypyro]

Thats one hell of a plow!

Dozer I guess its just differing opinions. Your right they are all made of plastic, but if you want a better example, go ride in a new dodge and compare it to your chevy, or a ford.

At work we have dodges and the dodge interior is really poor. I dont really know how to explain it, but youll see what i mean if you go for a rip in one.

[tuney443]

I respectfully disagree man. I have experienced a few duramaxes, and although the engine does seem to be OK, no better or no worse then a powerstroke, the truck didnt seem to be as comfrotable, or built as well as a ford. The interiors seemed cheap and rattley.

Well,I respectfully disagree with your disagreement.Having ''experienced'' and actually owning are 2 different things.I'm on my third Dmax--a LBZ--all totalled,I've logged app. 150K miles---all troublefree except for a warranted injector changeout on my LB7.Compare that to any version of the PS,especially their 6.0,which was nothing short of a POS.Granted,the 7.3 was a decent engine,but they also had more issues than the earlier Dmaxes.As for power,hands down goes to the Dmax,for tranny,the Allison is the recognized best.I have no idea why you say the Ford is more comfy,since Ford has a solid axle and GM has the IFS--just makes no sense--the Fords I've been in ride like a mid-size dump truck running empty.Cheap and rattley--not mine,but then again,every make uses plastic everywhere.There is a reason you know why Ford guys are coming over to the ''dark side''---we have better candy.

[Preppypyro]

Im just curious, how many ford powerstrokes have you owned?

I own a 7.3 that is in a 2003 right now. I will be the first to admit my 7.3 didnt quite have the stock power that the duramaxes I drove did, but all in all it towed much smoother down the highway, and didnt lose by much with power in town. I have also personally seen 7.3 liter trucks with 400,000 miles on them and run like the day they came out of the factory.

Now i cant stick up for the 6 liter that much, since the early years of 6 liters had tons of problems, but they did get better in the later years.

At work we run dodges, and I rack up tons of miles on them.

My previous job we had a couple of 02's duramaxes and I personally ran alot of miles on them too. Sorry but owning has nothing to do with it! Put your truck to the test sometime! I think the chevy would be a great grocery getter, but not much for a tower.


Oh and your comment about the candy is hilarious, made me laugh for sure man!

[PSDF350]

Well,I respectfully disagree with your disagreement.Having ''experienced'' and actually owning are 2 different things.I'm on my third Dmax--a LBZ--all totalled,I've logged app. 150K miles---all troublefree except for a warranted injector changeout on my LB7.Compare that to any version of the PS,especially their 6.0,which was nothing short of a POS.Granted,the 7.3 was a decent engine,but they also had more issues than the earlier Dmaxes.As for power,hands down goes to the Dmax,for tranny,the Allison is the recognized best.I have no idea why you say the Ford is more comfy,since Ford has a solid axle and GM has the IFS--just makes no sense--the Fords I've been in ride like a mid-size dump truck running empty.Cheap and rattley--not mine,but then again,every make uses plastic everywhere.There is a reason you know why Ford guys are coming over to the ''dark side''---we have better candy. Mine is an 04 PSD with 96,000 miles and have had very few problems. Injectors (warrented) turbo (blew connection or something like that) also warrented. Some ball joints, tie rod ends. All warrented. Yes it drives like a truck (especailly with the timberens on because of plow) But loaded drives nice. I actually like a truck that rides like a truck.

[jughead]

if one just drives 150k and trades why not just buy a gasser save maybe 7grand each and every fourth truck would be free?:drinkup

[PSDF350]

if one just drives 150k and trades why not just buy a gasser save maybe 7grand each and every fourth truck would be free?:drinkup
I'm on my third Dmax--a LBZ--all totalled,I've logged app. 150K miles---all troublefree except for a warranted injector changeout on my LB7

Thats 3 trucks in a 150,000 miles.

[PSDF350]

Now I should say I have nothing against chevy/gmc. I think they look nice heck even ride nice. But for me having an ifs is a deal breaker . I to this day regret selling my 83 k10. Had alot of fun with that truck.

[bolt thrower]

My work truck is a 1999 F550 PSD automatic trans. Runs good but gets 7.5 MPG.......... getting very expensive to drive. Truck is heavy, weighs 16,000 lbs. I wonder how much better a manual 6 speed would do. Doesn't seem right, I've heard of 400 HP, 80,000 lb semis getting 5 MPG.

[GaryKelley]

I know it doesn't seem fair. A 26K - 30K GVWR "Pick up" and trailer, barely getting 7 -9 mpg, and a 80K semi getting 6-8 (or 9) mpg. for one thing, they tare weight (empty weight) for that truck is close to 30K...another is gearing, going down the road, the big trucks have the torque (~1000 #')and HP, AND (here is the biggie) LOW operating RPM, most of em are going down the road running between 1200 and 1800 RPM going about 70....and YES, I know there are variables...as many different gear ratio set ups as there are stars in the sky.
One day, a manufacturer will come up with a PU, that can handle a GVWR of 28K AND get 15 mpg...
I have a 2000 F250, pulling a 20K gooseneck trailer, hauling a 9K tractor (or other equip). I generally get about 13 mpg, but not always.
With todays trans set ups, there probably isnt going to be that much difference with MPG, if anything your MPG will likely go down with a manual trans..

[Dozerboy]

I have seen Dmax's with over 500K mostly towing that never had a problem with the engine or drivetran durability isn't an issue.

Some ball joints, tie rod ends. All warrented.

And it is unlikely a IFS would any more repairs then that as well. We had a fleet of 97 2500s with 6.5 and a fleet of 99 250s with 7.3. That we beat doing underground utilities and plowing neither seemed to hold up any better.


if one just drives 150k and trades why not just buy a gasser save maybe 7grand each and every fourth truck would be free?:drinkup

The resale on a diesel is a bit better then a gasser so he ain't loosing 7K. Not to mention the fuel savings or the other general advantages of a diesel.

[Preppypyro]

My work truck is a 1999 F550 PSD automatic trans. Runs good but gets 7.5 MPG.......... getting very expensive to drive. Truck is heavy, weighs 16,000 lbs. I wonder how much better a manual 6 speed would do. Doesn't seem right, I've heard of 400 HP, 80,000 lb semis getting 5 MPG.


Thats really poor mileage. With my 2003 on the highway I get around 24 miles to the gallon

My father has a 01 with a 6 speed and his gets slightly better mileage then mine does on the highway.

This is also hand calculated out on both trucks, with the fuel being filled right up to the top of the tank.

[capt_met]

since it seems the thread has gone to which is better i wanted weigh in. i'll say it goes in cycles. when ford had the old idi's they couldn't be beat. reliable hard working engines particularly if they had the manual tranny. as the power wars began i think ford stayed on top till the d-max/allison began. the ford era was over and hasn't recovered yet. not to say they have good trucks compared to the older but the reliability and other issues take them out compared to the dmax. as far as the cummins, i think everyone will agree it could be argued to be the best engine. unfortunately its in a dodge. the trannies haven't been as good as the allison and the bodies seem to have issues from what i hear from dodge owners. things are changing as we speak though. epa and other issues will require big changes in the next few years. from what i hear all the diesel will have to get major changes or new models to be compliant. brand new level playing field.
i do own both a '94 idi and a dmax. both have been excellant trucks. the idi is very capable for i use it for as well as reliable after almost 250,000 miles. its capabilities aren't anywhere near the dmax though. i tow often around 12-14,000# on the bumper with the dmax. i also live in upper northeast tn where we have some pretty steep grades on some many backroads. the dmax has never let me down. it is amazing when driving by the pyro and tach you find its sweet spot and let the allison worry about the gears, it can actually accellerate on some very steep mountains.
all in all they are all good trucks that can help us make money. they ahevall come a long way in the last 20 years.
good luck,

[iron kid]

have had 99 2000 2001 2003 all power strokes. Spend the money on the chip 99 had 3500000 on it and still run fair but have put 2 trans in it

if the air filter gets dirty it will take out the turbo blades and make them look like a mouse chewed on them

[tuney443]

Im just curious, how many ford powerstrokes have you owned?

I own a 7.3 that is in a 2003 right now. I will be the first to admit my 7.3 didnt quite have the stock power that the duramaxes I drove did, but all in all it towed much smoother down the highway, and didnt lose by much with power in town. I have also personally seen 7.3 liter trucks with 400,000 miles on them and run like the day they came out of the factory.

Now i cant stick up for the 6 liter that much, since the early years of 6 liters had tons of problems, but they did get better in the later years.

At work we run dodges, and I rack up tons of miles on them.

My previous job we had a couple of 02's duramaxes and I personally ran alot of miles on them too. Sorry but owning has nothing to do with it! Put your truck to the test sometime! I think the chevy would be a great grocery getter, but not much for a tower.


Oh and your comment about the candy is hilarious, made me laugh for sure man!

I've owned O power strokes--I'm a dyed in the wool GM guy---Sorry,just don't like Fords. As for 6.0's getting better--better than what? They were always plagued with problems---turbos,injectors,lack of power,leaks--that's why Navistar went to the 6.4,which so far hasn't been much better,unless you think that melting a snow bank with your exhaust when it shoots out 3' flames is really cool.:rolleyes:

When you said ''experienced'' a Dmax,it sounded as if you drove one once or twice--didn't sound like you actually owned one to truly give it an honest opinion. That's all.

Grocery getter? Don't have any idea why you would say that,especially after your first post of stating the Dmax is a good engine.MY LBZ IS A STUMP PULLER--I go past grocery stores--not to them,usually semi or loaded with my excavating gear or pulling a few different trailers,or both.For your edification,there have been numerous trailer pull tests over the last 7 years or so and usually the Dmax comes out on top,especially now with the LBZ and LMM versions pushing out more power than the others,coupled with the newer 6 speed Allison to get er dun.Remember also that this is on a 3.73 axle---Ford has a 4.11 available and it still can't keep up.And yeah,my trucks are always tested--they're not by any means asphalt queens.

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums iron kid! :drinkup

[tuney443]

if one just drives 150k and trades why not just buy a gasser save maybe 7grand each and every fourth truck would be free?:drinkup

Why? Because I realize that if I don't own the very best diesel pickup on the planet,then anything else would be just like---second best

[tuney443]

They Teach Good Math In Nh I See> Point Being? AS FOR IFS ON GM"S__GREAT RIDE AND PLENTY STRONG___TONS OF THEM DOING SERIOUS WORK AND HUGE SNOWPLOW SET_UPS> FORDS HAVE HAD THEIR ISSUES WITH THEIR SOLID AXLES JUST LIKE DOZERBOY STATES SORRY FOR CASE WRITING COMPUTER GLICH OR IS IT JUST ME

[Steve Frazier]

Ford/IH went to the 6.0 and 6.4 engines for emissions requirements, no other reason. The 7.3 couldn't be tuned to meet the '03 requirements and the 6.0 couldn't meet '07 requirements.

I didn't read back to see where this turned in to a brand war, but the topic at hand is PowerStroke issues, I'd like to see us return to that.

[GaryKelley]

Thats really poor mileage. With my 2003 on the highway I get around 24 miles to the gallon

My father has a 01 with a 6 speed and his gets slightly better mileage then mine does on the highway.

This is also hand calculated out on both trucks, with the fuel being filled right up to the top of the tank.

That's my milage when I am HOOKED to my trailer, in the foothills and mountains of northern California, NOT the flat valley.
When I am just in the PU and no trailer, I usually get about 17-19 mpg, upwards of 20 HWY. Of course my PU has been "chipped" since day one.
The diesel fuel in CA is NOT the same as what the rest of the world is using (but prepare yourselfs for it's arrival, when I get out of CA, I've got as high as 22-24 at 75 mph...Course it isn't as quiet as teh D-Max...everything with a price, right?

[tuney443]

Ford/IH went to the 6.0 and 6.4 engines for emissions requirements, no other reason. The 7.3 couldn't be tuned to meet the '03 requirements and the 6.0 couldn't meet '07 requirements.

I didn't read back to see where this turned in to a brand war, but the topic at hand is PowerStroke issues, I'd like to see us return to that.

Sorry Steve--you are right.Being I don't own a PS,I won't post here anymore.I suppose I could start a Dmax issue thread but there really wouldn't be much to talk about, so it would get boring,so I won't.:)

[PSDF350]

They Teach Good Math In Nh I See> Point Being? AS FOR IFS ON GM"S__GREAT RIDE AND PLENTY STRONG___TONS OF THEM DOING SERIOUS WORK AND HUGE SNOWPLOW SET_UPS> FORDS HAVE HAD THEIR ISSUES WITH THEIR SOLID AXLES JUST LIKE DOZERBOY STATES SORRY FOR CASE WRITING COMPUTER GLICH OR IS IT JUST ME

No need to shout!! I was born and raised in Mass and 3 years in Ohio (12-15). So no education in NH. But my math has always been good. As for axle problems, what problems? Now I know the ttb's had problems, but have never ever been on a 1 ton, it is also not a sfa. Now ball joints thats a differant story. But I didn't fudge my experaince. Not saying you did. Only that I tried to tell the few problems I have had with mine. Are fords perfect no not by any means. But when I want a truck ford is where I will go. I won't own a ifs truck. So unless chevy/gmc comes out with sfa again there just a car. Have you noticed on the 4500/5500 4x4 trucks they put a sfa on? Ever wonder why?

[Dozerboy]

Have you noticed on the 4500/5500 4x4 trucks they put a sfa on? Ever wonder why?

Simple payload and I don't think he meant to shout read the last line of his post...


I don't take this thread as a brand war each of us buy what fits our needs so all of us have the best truck. So whats my issue with PowerStroke's...well ford circled the problem...HeHe J/K I'll quit now unless I have something constructive about fords to add.

[Preppypyro]

Any luck with fixing your powerstroke yet?




P.S. Tuney, I read something about glow plugs, and egr issues with the Duramax, no diesel engine is perfect! :D

[P Backus]

So far I've changed fuel filter, air filter is clean, pressured up the aftercooler system to 15lbs and didn't find any leaks (doesn't mean there aren't any, but I didn't hear any hissing anywhere). The computer has no codes set. Starts and runs fine, but uses too much fuel and is doggy- foot on floor too often. It is going in to someone with a floor (wheel) dyno on Tuesday. Supposedly he knows his stuff. We shall see. I have a trip out east with my regular trailer coming up, and a trip out west with a big gooseneck and too much weight. It would be good to have it fixed by then or I will be at 5 mpg and 50 mph!

BTW, that CPS is a recall thing now for this truck, right? I thought I read that it is, but the guy at this shop says no...

Thanks guys,
Paul

[Preppypyro]

Yes the cps is a recall. Apparantly doesnt affect every truck, but I would get it checked, i plan on getting mine checked when i have a chance.

[P Backus]

The guy at the shop says there is nothing wrong with the dumb thing. No exhaust back pressure, and boost pressure is about what it should be. Changed the air filter. He said that sometimes when the trucks went back to the dealer for any warranty thing, the dealer would re-flash it for better emmisions, which equal lower hp. Don't know about that (bought the truck when it was 5 yrs old), but it sure is a lead sled. I've always wondered how using more fuel to do the job will give you lower emmisions.
Anyway, his answer is to put a mild chip in it, which should raise fuel economy and power a bit.:beatsme If it does gain any mpg, it should pay for itself.

I guess. The '96 will sure kick it's butt though, and even the '90 seems like a better setup. Maybe a nice L-10 would be enough for it...;)

Paul

[Preppypyro]

That sucks man, wish we could have helped ya out more!

Time for a cummins swap!! haha.