Hours of work

[Grader4me]

A question for the long haul truckers....The new hours of work regulation just came into effect in Canada this year. It hasn't been passed in this province yet, but it will be shortly from what I can understand.
Here (http://www.driversdailylog.com/Canada%202007%20HOS%20Rules/breakdown%20of%20changes.htm) is a link showing a brief outline of the difference between the old and new regulations.
This has been in effect in the U.S. for some time I take it, so it is probably old hash for you guys.
The new rules seem to be quite complicated, with many senerios. How is it working for you guys?

[thejdman04]

Its not working well, depending on your load schedule etc you may actually get less hours of sleep.

[crash935]

I still dont like it. Theres no incentive to take a break or nap when your tired without it counting against your hours for the day (since fuel stops, pre trip, loading and unloading will use up your 3 hours of on duty time). I dont need 8 hours of sleep and having to just sit the other part of the required off duty/sleeper time just makes me tired agian. Let me grab my 6-7 hours of sleep, a shower and a bite to eat and i'll get back to work, all in under 8 hours. Once that 14 hour clock starts its game on and you cant call a time out.

[surfer-joe]

I agree with other posters here so far. Our government regulators didn't do truckers any favors with this tinkering of HOS rules. But it wasn't all of our trucking industry that wanted to make the change either, it was instead the various do-gooder safety lobbyists and a very few and influential big trucking outfits who mistakenly think that they know better than most truckers what's good for them.

Now we have a very ill-written and confusing ruling that still is not understood very well by truckers or law enforcement. The latter are generally calling it as they see it and while you the trucker may be completely OK, it's their call and you may wind up with a citation that has to be settled in court if you feel you're right about your time. Plus you get in trouble with your employer either way.

From my situation in California, we were just about the right amount of time from projects in western Wyoming where our lo-boy driver could essentially make a one-way trip in just under two days. When the new rule went into effect, it took him just under three days, which added cost to the haul and used up our driver's time. Generally, by the time he got back, he was out of hours for the rest of the week and I had to contract local haulers to move our stuff around town. Eventually, we contracted most of the interstate out and kept our boy for local work.

There is no way I could drive today like I did in the seventies when I drove for four hours steady, waited in line, unloaded, then drove another four hours, dropped the trailer and picked up a full one, then drove another four hours to the paper mill so I could be first in line when they opened in the morning, then sleep roughly four hours in the sleeper before the scaleman woke me for breakfast. Then it was unload and drive another four hours, spot and unhook the empty, pick up a full trailer and park the rig around front of the sawmill for the relief driver. He followed the same schedule.

A shift like that usually took 22-24 hours depending on traffic and weather and if the mill was down or up. Unloading usually took about 30-45 minutes. Dropping and picking up trailers could take 45-60 minutes depending on weather. Sawdust and wood chips are really slippery when wet and it's hard to line trailers up to the chute and especially back under loaded ones.

I doubt this run could be made profitably today from both a labor regulation and a fuel cost point of view.

[Grader4me]

Now we have a very ill-written and confusing ruling that still is not understood very well by truckers or law enforcement. The latter are generally calling it as they see it and while you the trucker may be completely OK, it's their call and you may wind up with a citation that has to be settled in court if you feel you're right about your time. Plus you get in trouble with your employer either way.



As this was being explained to us I was thinking the same thing. The more the guy talked and explained the more confused I was getting. At times the Instructor seemed confused himself. I'm all for safety on the road, and I believe that we need regulations, but I'm not at all convinced that this new regulation is the cats meow.

It seems to me as they were rewriting the regulations, they tried to clarifiy certain segments, and by doing so made it even more confusing. So I agree that there is bound to be conflict on who is right in some situations.

This is why I was wondering how it was working for you guys. I'm not surprised by the comments thus far.

[Ford LT-9000]

The rules are designed by people with no trucking experience what so ever.

I don't drive long haul so I don't deal with HOS rules but the guys that travel through here on a regular basis like a regular route say the new rules are stupid. These guys are paid by the hour but they don't want to be doing a job that is supposed to be one day and not two. They use to beable to do all their drops in one day now they can't they have to spend the night.

Most of these guys want to go home and sleep in their own bed not some old truck bunk.

More and more over regulation is just making trucking even more non profitable.

Yesterday dad was sitting in on a safety meeting with the loggers and some guy talking about new regulations etc. It is so over regulated now the safety regs fill up binders and binders worth of paper.

[LowBoy]

:my2c I'm just lending another opinion, but the new HOS (hours of service,) doesn't really affect me in my lifestyle. I currently haul oversize/overweight machinery all over the country. It's a sunrise to sunset operation when oversize, unless it's just weight related, whereas you are allowed to run 24 hours as long as the permit states that.
I find that I can program myself to drive the 11 maximum hours and use 3 more hours per day for pretrip/posttrip, misc. activities, totalling and not exceeding 14 hours on duty with 10 consectuive hours off in a 24 hr. period. Creativity is the key in skillfully executing a sharp logbook...(a fancy way of putting it for "LYING A LOT"...)
I just returned from a 10 day excursion from Boston, Mass. to Dona Ana, New Mexico with an oversize military tactical firefighting truck on an Oshkosh B'Gosh carrier, then to Albequerque, New Mexico to load a brand new Volvo G 946 motor grader back to Concord, New Hampshire, then a 235 Cat trackhoe from there to Port Newark, New Jersey today to finally get home...(Stand by for photos once I get them developed.)
It was all done in like I said, 10 days, and with creative writing skills in place, I was stopped 30 miles from my destination in New Hampshire by a DOT officer who requested my logbook first and foremost. It passed with flying colors with compliments on my neat penmanship and accurate entries.:naughty
The 34 hour restart came in handy, something that wasn't in place prior to the revised HOS. Once you hit 70 hrs. in 8 days, you must take 34 consecutive hours off duty, and then the clock restarts at ZERO. You have a fresh 70 hour period again. THAT'S handy in my operation.
I'm going to keep my strategy to myself, as there may be someone eavesdropping in on this thread :wink2 , but in effect this revised set of regulations didn't really affect our particular setup.
On the other hand, general freight haulers were and continue to be affected in a negative way. The shippers and receivers for the most part don't give a rat's arse about the drivers logbook hours, and they tend to lose countless, valuable work hours because of this mentality. I wish for once that the Government would do something positive for a change, and somehow penalize these people for their negligence.After all, once the clock starts ticking on this new system, you can't go off duty while doing certain things like you used to be able to.
It's costing companies money having to buy more equipment, hire more drivers, etc. to meet the demands of scheduling and soforth nowadays.
Who knows...it may be coming to the point of having "black boxes" in every commercial vehicle soon, as the rumors continue to circulate about that. Then the creativity will come to a screaching halt...:cool2

[crash935]

On the other hand, general freight haulers were and continue to be affected in a negative way. The shippers and receivers for the most part don't give a rat's arse about the drivers logbook hours, and they tend to lose countless, valuable work hours because of this mentality. I wish for once that the Government would do something positive for a change, and somehow penalize these people for their negligence.After all, once the clock starts ticking on this new system, you can't go off duty while doing certain things like you used to be able to.


The shippers and receivers ARE the biggest problem for freight haulers. They make appointments that drivers work their buts off to keep just to be told "go wait in line, were behind" but if were late its "go wait in line, youre late". We have one receiver that likes to take 6 hours to unload (we get there in the evening and are just about out of hours), they come out with the paper work and tells us to get out of their lot, we just laugh and go park in a corner, they have threatened us with the cops and we have told them to make sure hes DOT cetified and to leave us alone, were sleeping.

[Jeff D.]

The shippers and receivers ARE the biggest problem for freight haulers. They make appointments that drivers work their buts off to keep just to be told "go wait in line, were behind" but if were late its "go wait in line, youre late". I agree with this & what Lowboy and everyone else so far has said. I'm not "long haul" anymore, but when I was doing it the logbook was a joke. I imagine driver's often times just figure out how to cheat differently, now that the rules are different. The DOT, shipper's, reciever's, and the trucker's all know the laws are being broken, and changing the laws will have little effect on the hours that trucker's are actually driving. I don't know what the answer's are to fixing the problem, but the "fixes" they've come up with won't change much. A major change which includes shippers, recievers, dispatchers, trucking co's., also being held accountable for their pressure's to force drivers to break laws will need to be done before there's ever a real fix to the problems. These pressures are real and they are hard to deal with.

Despite all this, truck drivers as a group have a very impressive record when the actual miles driven and amount of freight hauled is taken into account. They are far far safer than the general public, and they're not 80,000lbs, 75ft long, or have to back into docks built for 40ft long trailers. There is issues that need addressing in the industy, but most of the time that a truck is involved in an accident with a 4 wheeler it's caused by the 4 wheeler, not tired truckers. Statistics already show this.

I think road safety would benifit everyone more if emphasis were directed to the those who cause the greatest % of problems on the road rather than honing in only on the trucking industry. It's not because that would be............get ready.................the "general public".

Anyway's............back to the new laws. The new laws haven't any effect on my trucking job, currently. I drive approx. 8hrs a day, 4-6day/wk, and it was easy to log under both the earlier laws and the new laws.

[Orchard Ex]

I think that the only way the shippers/receivers are going to get on board is if the freight company's tightly enforce the (detention?) clauses in the contracts. When they have to pay the "fines" for having drivers sit and wait they will get the message. But as long as the freight company is willing to forgive the shipper for making the truck wait in line, the waiting/wasting time will continue.

BTW, just because someone isn't doing long haul doesn't mean you aren't subject to the HOS rules. There are different logging requirements if you qualify for the 100 or 150 air mile exemption, but you are still limited in the hours you can drive in a given period.

[crash935]

I think that the only way the shippers/receivers are going to get on board is if the freight company's tightly enforce the (detention?) clauses in the contracts. When they have to pay the "fines" for having drivers sit and wait they will get the message. But as long as the freight company is willing to forgive the shipper for making the truck wait in line, the waiting/wasting time will continue.



Thats exactly the problem, talked to one of our brokers today about it and he agreed, its kind of like biting the hand that feeds them, why **** off the shipper with more fees and possibly lose them as a customer when its easier to have a driver pissed off.

[Xcopterdoc]

Make the dispatchers have to be DOT certified also. They take the tests and pay the bucks, then if they screw up, THEY pay the fines, lose their lic and THEY get canned! What ya think??

[dayexco]

sounds to me like an enforcement problem. i surely don't want to meet some driver that's been on the road that's clocked 14 hrs of straight driving, that has done it for 7 consecutive days. i don't want to meet somebody on the road that's "fudging" their log books. were enough people pulled over/cited...then driver's could get decent hours in line, and be compensated for the time they actually traveled. i carry a class C myself, none over the road on a daily basis, just moving our own equipment around, but even so.........i know how it is to try to operate earthmoving equipment ALL BY MYSELF where we're busy with little or no sleep, and not endanger anybody but me.....to think that i was meeting somebody in a highway in a tired frame of mind...scares me...

[crash935]

Make the dispatchers have to be DOT certified also. They take the tests and pay the bucks, then if they screw up, THEY pay the fines, lose their lic and THEY get canned! What ya think??

The most they can screw up is setting unrealistic delivery/pickup times or double booking. The rest falls on the drivers shoulders as far as safe and legal operation of the truck. The dispatcher can tell a driver to keep going but its up to the driver to stop the truck when they are out of hours, the equip is unsafe or the driver is unsafe.


deyexco, the "fudged" log books are reality. The ones who arent any good at it get caught the ones who are good at it dont. How do you enforce it though, DOT at every on ramp, scale, truck stop to check every driver? As for compensation for time traveled, its called pay per mile and thats the name of the game, more miles = more $$.

The biggest problem with the HOS is that they dont work for all drivers or loads, 2 examples,

I have a pretty regular run, takes 10.5 hours of drive time with 1.5 - 2 hours of on duty time (pick up trailer, pre trip, 3 fuel stops), maybe 1 hour off duty for lunch or dinner and a shower, takes the receiver 2-6 hours to unload and since i'm pretty much out of hours by then i drop the trailer in the dock and find a spot for a nap until morning, grab the trailer in the morning, reload a few miles away and repeat in the opposite direction. Make this round 2 times a week. I get my sleeper time and time at home and pretty much work during the day.

Now lets say i start out at 8am first thing Mon morning after having spent the weekend at home, drive 3 hours to shipper and end up sitting 6 hours because then dont have their act together, end up napping in the bunk for 3 hours while im there. I now only have 5 hours left to make a run that would take 8 hours. Now the problems start, the shippers dont care, they got rid of their stuff. The broker is promising that he will try to get the appointment for tomorrow morning changed but he is going home in a 1/2 hour (so fat chance of that happening). The receiver doesnt care what the shipper did and if you dont make your appointment they could bump you to the next day so you end up sitting and losing more $$. So what do you do?
A - Run it legal on paper and sit there knowing your 3 hours form where you need to be and WIDE awake (took a nap, remember)?
B - Use "creative writing skills" and show you were only at the dock for a few hours?

[Jeff D.]

I'm not "long haul" anymore, but when I was doing it the logbook was a joke........

........The new laws haven't any effect on my trucking job, currently.
......just because someone isn't doing long haul doesn't mean you aren't subject to the HOS rules. There are different logging requirements if you qualify for the 100 or 150 air mile exemption, but you are still limited in the hours you can drive in a given period.I agree Orchard. I worded my post poorly, and it may have sounded like I thought I wasn't required to do a logbook. I am. I do a logbook every day. I should've said I can log my driving within the old rules and the new rules without bumping into any restrictions. I wasn't affected by the new laws in as much as I've had to adjust my driving at all.
Make the dispatchers have to be DOT certified also. They take the tests and pay the bucks, then if they screw up, THEY pay the fines, lose their lic and THEY get canned! What ya think??I agree, they should be held accountable because they often push for driver's to "get the load there however you have to do it."

I bet many of those here who've driven long haul/cross country have at some point confronted their dispatcher or boss about being illegal and over hours only to be told "your the only person who has a problem getting it done!", or something similair.
i don't want to meet somebody on the road that's "fudging" their log books.I don't want to alarm you Dayexco, but in the "over the road" trucking industry you'de be hard pressed to NOT meet a driver who's "fudging their logbook". It sad, but it's the way it's being done, and has been done for many years. It may not be right, but until there's no longer a way to cheat the system (black boxes) it will continue. The DOT has a hard time being able to tell if a logbook is truthful or not. It's filled in by a human, and often there is little way to check it's accuracy. Fuel slip's, and other forms of paperwork that have time stamps are being used by DOT more and more, but it's still hard for them to know if it's truthful.

Many trucking companies teach how to make sure your logbook will pass a DOT inspection, rather than teach how to drive within the laws. I've sat through their "safety meetings" and heard all the stuff about making sure your fuel slips match your logbook, instead of "Don't drive illegal and you won't have to "match" your paperwork to your logbook. It'll already be right."

This is why I'm glad to be away from Over the Road/long haul trucking anymore. I feel sorry for the driver's who are in it. I've still "issues" I've to deal with now with pressure from companies I deal with in my trucking, but I'll keep them too myself. I know most drivers would prefer to be paid more/hour and drive less hours, and the government would prefer this too. I know most would like to be able to run legal without pressure from the people who they answer to. The trucking companies, the shipper, and the recievers push drivers hard and want to continue with the rates as they currently are. Once true enforcement of hours of service is done the rates for trucking are going to climb, and probobly substancally. There might also be a shortage of drivers available to haul the freight since more time will be spent with each load.

They (the Gov.)have been trying to fix this problem for as long as I've been trucking(15years), and I've seen little if any true progress yet. I'm not doing the long haul loads anymore, but I still talk to enough drivers to know things haven't improved much.

Truckers falling asleep account for a very low percent of truck accidents. BUT stressed out truckers who are "on the edge" on account of what their being put through by their company's are all over the country. I was one of them, and I'd never go back to that life. I'd work at a Seven-Eleven first!

[Jeff D.]

I hate to keep rambling on and on, but.................

I don't want to sound as if I think "It's everyone fault but the truckers" for truckers violating the HOS rules. Ultimately they are responsible for their actions.

I personally feel that for long haul trucking:
1) The current system still allows for "fudging" in the logbook.
2) As the rates currently sit a trucker has a hard time making a living while still obeying the HOS
3) Improvements could be implemented to reduce downtime for truckers so they could make a living and still obey the HOS rules
-OR-
4)Pay, whether hourly or by mileage, will need to be increased drastically to allow truckers to make a decent living and obey the HOS with the current way shippers and recievers deal with them.
5) A system that made cheating impossible would be very hard on the industry for an amount of time BUT, eventually the problems still present would be fixed and rates would rise to adjust. (it's this "amount of time" that everyone is scared of)
6)Despite all of the problems with lawbreaking and the HOS in the industry, truckers are still far safer than the general public when it comes to the # of accidents per driver, and the # miles per accident. It is the serverity of the accidents when trucks are involved, whether the drivers fault or more commonly the general publics (a 4wheeler) fault, that cause so much alarm and thus the calls for more regulation.
7)Trucking Co's and drivers resist change, whether in the end it would benifit them and the industry as a whole, for fear a transistion will hurt their business or put them out of business.(which is quite possibly true)
8) The new HOS will not fix these problems.
9)Highway safety would improve more if there was better education on how cars and trucks should interact on the road, than any improvements the new HOS will provide.

Ok, now I'm really done.:o :)

[LowBoy]

All this negative talk about the industry that I've been trying to exit with all the strength I have inside my body is starting to depress me....It's "harshing my mellow, man...":crying

When you really think about it in depth, it's one of (if not THE...) worst businesses you could be involved in on the planet, and don't misunderstand me, some of you double-clutchin', gear-jammin', coffee-drinkin' nuts out there that still take pride in your profession...; I've been right there with the best of them since 1978.

You start off driving for others to get some experience. You get the desire to own your own truck and eventually increase your lot in life. You acheive that status, and then start working like a farm animal to make ends meet. You invest 20+ years of your life (and eventually ruin it,) working, driving, wrenching, paperworking, struggling, as the price of fuel goes from .75 a gallon in the '80's to 3 bucks now. A new Pete is now $130,000 bucks. A new trailer, as the one I'm pulling for example is a new Fontaine lowbed, is another $65,000 bucks. $195,000 bucks invested and you haven't bought a tire, included the preventative maintenence and amortized the monthly payment on that 195 grand yet.

The rates that trucking companies are hauling for in 2007 are relative to the costs of doing business in the current day; which are comparable to those being charged in the early '80's although fuel was once again...75 cents per gallon. Throw in the new HOS regulations, drug testing,(good idea..,) over-active DOT inspections performed by KIDS basically that never crawled under a truck in their lives until the training sessions required by their profession, and the overall quest to work twice as many hours in a week as the average John Q. Public does...Finding the inner strength within yourself to not shoot some of these receiving clerks at the grocery or produce warehouses,(ever delivered in New Jersey...you'll know what I'm talking about then,) and I have to wonder WHY in the WORLD do we continue to accept all the negative changes and constant federal regulation and over-burdening laws that only reduce your chance to make an "HONEST" living...

After 20+ years of this struggle, physically as well as financially, you look at the numbers and realize that you've smartened up enough to know that all you've done is kill yourself to make ends meet all that time. I'm not directing this analogy to everyone...some have had better "luck" than others, a better start by having some financial security, etc. This is directed to the people like myself who started off with a big ZERO, nothing, nada...and tried to build something from nothing.

Can anybody answer that question, 'cause I'm looking for that answer myself.:usa

Sorry for the ramble...but as Forrest Gump used to say, "that's all I got ta say about thaaat...":D

[Orchard Ex]

Jeff, My comment wasn't directed toward you, somebody else mentioned that they didn't have to deal with the HOS. I just wanted to clarify that (in the US at least) everybody driving a commercial vehicle (even under CDL? I'd have to read the reg. again to be sure about that one) does have to deal with it, just not to the same reporting requirements.

Here's a good article about the lengths the prosecutors will go to see if you cheated your logs: http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=19375
Credit cards, Quallcomm, toll transponders, engine computer, even your cell phone can betray how long you've been on the road.

If you have Sirius radio the RoadDog channel does a frequent "Ask the Law" call in program where you can ask enforcement and logbook questions of DOT police. Here's a related website with a HOS log survey from last year. www.olblueusa.org

I agree with most everything that's been posted so far. I'm beginning to think that public transportation may need to be mandated for most people. That way they could continue to read the paper, work and chat on the cell phone without endangering others (and then blaming someone else when they cause an accident). My favorite from this week was Thurs. when I was cut off twice by a DOT Officer on his way to the scale house. He was walking in with his coffee when I pulled up onto the scale.

[surfer-joe]

Here's a good article about the lengths the prosecutors will go to see if you cheated your logs: http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=19375
Credit cards, Quallcomm, toll transponders, engine computer, even your cell phone can betray how long you've been on the road.

I wanted to ad to Orchard Ex's comment here, as I've been involved in DOT audits from both the driver and manager standpoint.

I note that some here say that log book "creative writing" still exists and goes on all the time, but that if done well, can get you by. I'll agree with that to a point, so long as you or your company do not undergo a federal DOT audit, which could happen randomly at the DOT's digression, or because the driver or company become a target of DOT interest for some odd reason, or worst of all, the driver and truck become involved in an accident with injury to driver or others. At best, in an accident, there will be paperwork to do, and the accident report will make it's way slowly between the various authorities and insurance companies and eventually, wind up as a tick in the CMVS files. If DOT auditors become involved, don't bet the farm that they will overlook something or give you the benefit of doubt.

If any of these situations occur, you best hope ALL your paperwork is in perfect order, (I's dotted and T's crossed) and that all records and documents that are related to you and your rig are also present, legible, perfect in every detail, and match or collaborate your HOS and trips. The senior DOT auditors are very sharp cookies, and if they get one little whiff that something isn't right, or that the driver, the maintenance people, or the company, have been cooking the paperwork or other records, your life WILL become very difficult for the next several weeks or months, depending on citations issued, legal appeals, etc.

For the small owner-operator, upon conviction, he could lose his business completely and be barred from driving for anyone else commercially. Larger businesses can pay big fines and possibly lose their business licenses for a period of time. Both entities can be kept off the public highways for indeterminate periods of time. The driver involved, of course, can lose his CDL license forever and even be jailed, as can company officials who knowingly direct drivers to falsify log books or other documents, or even just know that it’s going on without doing anything about it. In any serious case, if you or the company decide to enlist legal help in fighting the citations, it becomes very expensive!

The DOT folks have all the time in the world to perform these investigations. They will sit, in your office, and read the local paper, perform work on other cases, talk on the phone with their other people and their offices, all while the driver, the transportation dispatcher, the maintenance manager and his staff, the corporate safety director, the corporate human resource manager, and the corporate risk manager scurry about locating documents and records to back up or collaborate log entries. When you have everything gathered up, the DOT uses your corporate meeting room to spread all the documents out and then they go thorough them with a fine-toothed comb. All the company people meanwhile, are on call to go in and explain some detail, or be told to find other documents that seem to be missing.

If one of the DOT guys becomes bored, he may decide to go out and look at some of the rigs you have parked in the yard or down to the shop. Guess what? He may find some problems on any one of your sitting rigs that may warrant him to write additional citations. He may be doing this out of spite, or out of some thought that you are dragging your feet providing other information, or he may be just looking for something to do while he's waiting.

Remember, the DOT regulations are thick, and every one of them is open to an auditor's interpretation or judgment.

So why put yourself and your company at risk of inviting attention from DOT in the first place, and becoming more involved in the second place as things evolve and go to hell in a basket as the auditors discover more items worthy of citation?

It's not worth the risk I'll say right up front! Financially it can be very bad on the driver, same for the company. These procedures can be and are very stressful to your health, and you thought LA traffic was bad, and lastly, as has been shown in the last several months, drivers that are out of hours and still on the road are tired and less than optimum behind the wheel and are causing horrible accidents that get people killed, and produce more calls for more regulations and safety oversight by consumer organizations, the general public, and pompous politicians. In short, a lose-lose situation for the trucking industry and the individual driver.

I know that folks want to make a living at truck driving, I did for a while, but if you do not follow all the rules, and if you make imaginative entry's in your log book, especially regarding HOS, these can and probably will come back to haunt you sooner or later.

[DirectTech]

brand new Volvo G 946 motor grader back to Concord, New Hampshire

Hey lowboy by any chance did you haul that grader to Chadwick-BaRoss.

[MKTEF]

Well i don't want to say anything about your system in the states. But i can try to explain how it is here in Europe.:usa

All trucks over 3,5t(7000lbs) has to have a speedrecorder onboard, and a speed limiter. The speed limiter is limited to max 85 km/h(53 mph)
The speedrecorder on old trucks, meaning sold before 2006, is of a papertype.
You put a round paper in your recorder after writing name, trucknumber, distance and place on it. The recorder writes the speed and if you are parked.
You then turn a lever telling that you are driving, working or resting.
There is space for 2 drivers on each record.

Records is personal and must be cept for 1 week in the car and the rest in your home or office.

Newer trucks have a electronic speedrecorder. You obtain a personal card at the DOT with a chip in it. If you want to drive a truck you put this card into the recorder. The recorder stores the same data as the paper ones. The last week of driving is stored in your card. If you drive more than legaly the recorder tells you...
The recorder is emptied at the truck service point or into a pc at your home base.
If DOT wants to check the data, the pay a visit to your card by the road and to your home or truckstop.
Fines for you, your firm, lost driving license, jail, yeah you know the penalties they are the same as in the states.
And you are being controlled by the road!
The military dosent have recorders....:D
And i bet the recorders will come to you in the future.(electronic ones)

[surfer-joe]

Here is a word to the wise, if you do not have to be driving a truck these two days, don't! If you do, then make sure everything you can possibly do or think of is in apple pie order. These check-points will be undertaken all across the United States and Canada, possibly Mexico as well.
================================================== ======

"The 20th annual continent-wide Roadcheck, June 5-7, will focus on Level One truck inspections, the most comprehensive, as well as motor coach inspections and seat belt enforcement."

"Steve Keppler, director of policy and programs for the Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance, said 10,000 inspectors are expected at 1,000 sites for 72 continuous hours."

"During the 2006 Roadcheck, 8,522 inspectors at 1,850 locations across North America performed a near-record 60,357 truck and bus inspections. The number of vehicles placed out of service and “parked” because of serious defects decreased in 2006 in all major categories."

"All vehicles: 21.7 percent in 2006, down from 22.5 percent in 2005."

"Buses: 6.9 percent in 2006, down from 11.7 percent in 2005."

"Hazmat trucks: 18.2 percent in 2006, down from 19.3 percent in 2005."

[LowBoy]

Hey lowboy by any chance did you haul that grader to Chadwick-BaRoss.

As Ed McMann used to say..."You are correct, Sir...":D
Why, did you see me unloading it? If so, how come you didn't stop in and buy supper? Man, after a 3 day jaunt from New Mexico being overweight, overwidth and not supposed to run on the Memorial Day weekend, awake for almost the whole time and no logbook, I think a man woulda deserved a good feed.:cool2

Oh, wait...I didn't mean all that stuff...just the supper part...:naughty

[DirectTech]

No I happen to work for that company, just a little bit further north, at the Bangor ME Branch, I just figured that if you were hauling a Volvo to NH it must have been there.

[LowBoy]

No I happen to work for that company, just a little bit further north, at the Bangor ME Branch, I just figured that if you were hauling a Volvo to NH it must have been there.

I was just kiddin' about the supper, by the way. I'm doing the Atkins thing nowadays, anyways. It's been working good, too.:scool

[wrenchbender]

I was just kiddin' about the supper, by the way. I'm doing the Atkins thing nowadays, anyways. It's been working good, too.:scool

Ain't that where you eat steak sandwiches all the time. You know a nice thick juicey slab of steak tucked between two more slices of steak. Around here it would be poeboy steak anyway. O S C A R M A Y E R makes the best steak.:falldownlaugh

[LowBoy]

:D :D When I heard about this Atkins deal Wrenchbender, I had to take a second look. I said, "you mean to tell me I can stuff all the steak, hamburg, chicken, hotdogs, pepperoni and cheddar cheese and all the protein I can eat in my piehole, and STILL lose weight?...where do I sign up, Hoss?":cool2

The only problem with it is, I was at a Pilot travel center somewhere out west last week, and went to purchase 2 Oscar Mayer tubesteaks minus the rolls, all nestled up in their little carrier with the mustard on 'em. The girl at the register asked where the rolls were. I said, "back in the drawer with the rest of 'em". She got all uptight and says to herself, "how am I gonna do this", insinuating that I screwed up her tubesteak-to-roll ratio, I guess.
I looked at her and said, "what's the problem...did I messs up the store's inventory, not taking the rolls...what have you got, an accountant in the back room policing the hotdog cooker sales, and is going to fire you because a customer left the buns behind or something? Maybe you'll get lucky, I said, and somebody will come in and just buy those two buns I left behind, and your hotdog-to-bun ratio will be balanced back out again...":Banghead

I wonder if there is such a diet where all you need to eat is tubesteak rolls? That's what that Pilot cashier needs; someone on that plan.:D

I'm telling you...this world is turning into a freak show faster than we think.

On the brighter side of things, I shed 25 lbs. and 3 inches in diameter on this plan in just about 5 weeks, and so it's worth a little bit of hassle from uninformed cashiers, I guess.:woohoo

[LowBoy]

Ain't that where you eat steak sandwiches all the time. You know a nice thick juicey slab of steak tucked between two more slices of steak. Around here it would be poeboy steak anyway. O S C A R M A Y E R makes the best steak.:falldownlaugh

I just tried your method of sandwiching a po'boy OSCAR MAYER tubesteak between 2 more tubesteaks...I just wasted a whole dang package of 'em...

Every time a got that sucker lodged in between them two others, it'd POP out and land on the flo'...:crying :cussing :pointlaugh

I reckon that's why that Atkins diet works so good. You go to trying to eat them tubesteak sammiches, and end up throwing a dozen away after hitting the dirt, so you get disgusted and go do something else instead?:beatsme

[Grader4me]

Thanks for all the feedback on the hours of work regulations! I appreciate the opinions from you truckers that are trying to work inside these new regulations, and hearing about how fustrating it can be. Really great responses. Thanks again!

[Grader4me]

The new hours of work regulations are very close to becoming a law in our province. We are hearing conflicting stories. We are being told that even if we are within the 160 km radius, all of our truck drivers has to carry a commerical vehicle log book.
Then we were told by another person that if we do not travel outside this radius we are not required to have one.
Keep in mind that both stories came from the same department. The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing I guess. Anyone?

[Grader4me]

Found out some answers today. First, the new regulations are now in effect in our province. We do not have to carry a commercial vehicle log book as long as we are within the 160 km radius. If I would have just held off for a day, I wouldn't have had to do all of this two fingered typing...whew...(wiping off sweat)

On edit..Nothing like having a conversation with yourself...First sign of going of the deep end....:D

[Countryboy]

On edit..Nothing like having a conversation with yourself...First sign of going of the deep end....:D

Second sign is wearing a.......um.......nevermind. :D

[Grader4me]

Second sign is wearing a.......um.......nevermind. :D


:yup That would be the the final sign to be committed. You related to Squizzy?:Pointhead :)

[murray83]

Green graders with a red dress that would clash no? ;) :D

[Grader4me]

Green graders with a red dress that would clash no? ;) :D

Ah Murray...See what your previous little story did to me?:eek: :deadhorse Great fun though isn't it? :)

Would anyone like to talk about the hours of service regulations? Please? :Pointhead

[murray83]

Ha no problem ;)

I remember running a backhoe for my last employer fixing a pipeline to Colsen Cove for 36 hours straight start to finish till the welders were done as we couldn't leave the job site as a certain family in these parts don't like to loose money who's idenity shall remain nameless,had about 8 patches to do along the line those were 2 very long weeks :( but a sweet paycheck :D

[Grader4me]

In the new regulations when driving inside the 160 km zone, you don't need to carry and maintain a commercial vehicle logbook. You still have to keep records of hours worked/driven each day as the 13 hour driving rule would still apply.

Okay, my point with this. We have our own "logbook" that are in each one of our assets. Recorded in the logbook is a pre-trip check list and sign off, fuel, greasing schedule, oil added/changed, odometer reading etc..There is no section in our logbook that has hours worked/driven.

To be in compliance we are going to have to modifiy our logbooks. This will be a huge undertaking and time consuming as we are talking province wide.

What do you truckers that work inside the "zone" have to keep track of hours worked/driven? Do you keep and maintain a commericial vehicle logbook anyway?

[Orchard Ex]

We are allowed to use the company time (payroll) records in lieu of a logbook. Since I don't get paid, I use a simplified log book from JJ Keller (link) (http://www.jjkeller.com/browse/product.html?group_id=2392&searched=)made for drivers using that rule.

[Grader4me]

We are allowed to use the company time (payroll) records in lieu of a logbook. Since I don't get paid, I use a simplified log book from JJ Keller (link) (http://www.jjkeller.com/browse/product.html?group_id=2392&searched=)made for drivers using that rule.

Years ago every operator carried a time book in the vehicle. This book was small and simple to fill out. Original went to the Supervisor and a copy stayed in the book. Probably easier to go back to this rather than change our whole log book.
Thanks Orchard for your reply and link.

[crash935]

The Federal Court has done it again, there may be a change AGAIN in the HOS.

http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=61742&navigation=CCJ_daily_report

Will have to wait and see.