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nobull1
05-01-2004, 06:07 PM
Well I thought I was going to have a good day.Had a couple of small jobs on today no big deal or so I thought.Both jobs went fine no problems until 50' from the truck track comes off:eek: .Realize this is the first time these steel tracks have come and probably because the grease seal is getting a little weak.Well 3 hours later and track still on the ground I was not a happy camper.I tried gear on install from top on to idler,gear on bottom of idler,idler "on" top of gear,idler "on" bottom of gear, even tried sprocket off install track than install sprocket this was a foolish move in hindsight :Banghead Anyhow what am I missing I really don't want to have to call some one and feel like a idiot and give him money:rolleyes: There must be a standard way of doing this,like should track be on inside or outside and top bottom, back front.Lucky not in a mud hole like 5 mins before now I am by a power pole with guy wires on both sides :rolleyes: Anyhow free beer to the man that can tell me how to resolve this, but you have to come to Nova Scotia to get it :D

PAYTON
05-01-2004, 07:40 PM
why not split the track would seem like the fastest way about it ..


what 4 bolts and the track is split .. hmm


:drinkup

nobull1
05-01-2004, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by PAYTON
why not split the track would seem like the fastest way about it ..


what 4 bolts and the track is split .. hmm


:drinkup
Ok I'll be the dummy again ,without going to look I thought that the track was rivieted together.Now I got my manual out after my post just to see if there was something I missed :rolleyes: Well dah you have to turn the nut behind the grease fitting to relieve the pressure I loosened the grease fitting and got nothing.So one would think that there was a leak in valve which caused the track to come off that's why no pressure.You can see what a little knowledge can do:Pointhead It would appear that the grease fitting is not used for pressure which makes sense as they are not usually designed for that purpose.The cartridge valve nut must be like a one way check valve for lack of a better words.Anyhow tomorrow I will go back down and try again and wouldn't be surprized if it goes right on "after relieving pressure".I would still like to know if there is a standard way to reinstall the tracks.this must happen all the time

digger242j
05-01-2004, 09:17 PM
Ok I'll be the dummy again ,without going to look I thought that the track was rivieted together.Now I got my manual out after my post just to see if there was something I missed Well dah...

Now you're not being a dummy! :)

The only excavator track I've thrown was on a Kobelco 35, with rubber tracks. I was in a bunch of gravel and trying to do a pretty hard turn, and it just got jammed up and came right off the front idler. We tried for half an hour to work the thing back on, with no luck. (I didn't have so much as a Crescent wrench with me--all my tools were in the other truck.) Fortunately, the plumber was on the job, and he had a socket set. Once we let off the pressure and used the bucket to push the idler back to where there was plenty of slack available, it took about two minutes to get the track back on. We just raised that side of the machine off the ground with the hoe and ran the track forward and it went right back on.


The Case 310 track loader (1964 model) we used to own had the worst undercarriage in the world. You had to grease each roller daily--no sealed bearings on that machine. Half of them were shot. The bushings were mostly broken, and the sprockets were pretty badly worn too. Track adjustment was accomplished with a big wrench--there was a screw with an adjusting nut and a jam nut. There were no bolts holding the tracks together either--to seperate the chain you had to heat a link up and drive the pin out. There was so much slack that to get any tension on the chains the guy we bought it from had removed one link on each side.

If you didn't run too hard, and paid enough attention you *might* be able to stop before it threw the track all the way off. The best thing about the machine was that it had a ripper on the back. If the track was only partway off you could pick the back end up with the ripper, and the front end up with the buckert, til the whole machine was about a foot in the air. Run the track forward or backward, depending on which way it had come off, maybe humor it over a little bit with a digging bar, and you were good to go, at least til the next time (which was sometimes about five minutes later).
:Banghead

nobull1
05-02-2004, 12:28 PM
Well here is the "scoop:D "went down this morning and had track on machine and in my yard in 1 1/2 hours:D . Now I have learned quite a bit in the last day and hope it my save someone the grief it caused me
Things to do:

install track from the bottom and roll up onto idler, in my case there are 2 guides on the bottom which make it had to start at the top and not get jammed on the bottom.

make sure there is no pressure on the idler :Banghead

Things not to do

Assume that after removing grease nipple that pressure is released:Banghead there is on my machine a valve "nut" just behind the nipple that has to be loosened.

Do not back up on unstable rocky terrain.I figured I would back up over a 6" clear stone uneven drainway as this would make loading a lot easier on the side of the road.What this did and I didn't really think about at the time was
1] made the track loose on the bottom as opposed to the top ,gear on motor pulling not pushing

2] allows the whole bottom of the track between the idler and gear to get bent out of shape due to the uneven terrain

3] when you drive with the gear in back as it is supposed to be even if the track gets pushed out of shape it is near impossible to get it to come off the gear as the teeth are a lot higher.So you can see if the track is out of shape and the last thing it hits is the center of the idler which I would say is 60% as deep as the teeth on the gear, and smooth to boot you know what's going to happen

Anyhow I am sure the old pro's know this from years of experience.I myself never thought of it and I am not a old pro:D so I'm allowed.:D Just thought this might help someone not to get into this type of problem.

Comments welcome

Grinderminder71
07-06-2004, 08:30 AM
I used to operate a cat E300B which we got used, it was a nice machine but I think who ever owned it before used to drive it home every night. The idlers, tracks and most everything else was REALLY worn out. The idlers had allready been built up both witdth and heighth several times and worn back down The tracks had to be kept extremely tight and they made horrible noises when the machine was moved.
Needless to say, I lost a track about 5 times in one year and I rarely moved the thing. The first time it was an all day project for the mechanic and several others, but after a while I didnt have to involve anyone but another excavator.
I would release the tension ( I beleive it was a valve near the zirc) and use the other hoe to push it in. then with teeth of the other bucket I could start w/ the track on the bottom and shoe horn it around the idler with the weight of the broken machine sitting on the hoe.
Aside from that and the pumps being worn out, and the head gasket and..... uh. it was a nice machine

glsahl
08-01-2004, 11:58 AM
With 7 excavators,track maintenance is not the issue you'd think.I started chain replacement on our Linkbelt 3400 Thursday.It's got over 10000 hours on the original chains.Other than replacing 2 idlers,6 or so lower,and all 4 carrier rollers,it's been good,undercarriage wise.Keeping the tension adjusted,and shoe hardware tight is the key.Keeping debris,and side loading to a minimum helps tremendously.Wraping a chain,in the field,isn't that bad,using a second excavator,without one can try a person's patience,but that usually a sign that wear is becoming a factor.Or your straddling a ditch too close to the machine's track gauge.At this chain replacement I'm replacing 8 lower rollers,but reusing both idlers,they are still in good shape.I am rebuilding both recoil cylinders,and using an aftermarket Berco chain,it has a press in master,instead of the stock push in type.

tylermckee
01-09-2006, 04:33 AM
If you are carefull and have a thumb you can raise the side with the track off with your bucket, then throw a chain around the thumb and and use it to pull the track back on as you slowly roll the track. works for me, usually

astragte_mk2
10-20-2007, 06:02 PM
Hi

Have read this thread but still have a few questions..one of my tracks are after coming off, after a struggle I have it lifted back on but dont know how to release the pressure to get to to roll on. any help appreciated?

Thanks

pat

nobull1
10-20-2007, 07:55 PM
If you have the grease fitting, or nut behind the fitting loosened as in my old Daewoo. You should be able to use the bucket to push against the idler to move it back. If a little bucket pressure doesn't move the idler it is still pressurized and you will have to find out why it is not released.

digger242j
10-20-2007, 08:51 PM
Something else to keep in mind...

The last time I threw a track on an excavator, the whole idler and adjustment assembly slid forward, out of the place it usually rides in. Even if I'd used the bucket to push idler back, it would have still been forward of where it should have been. It took a little wiggling this way and that, with a digging bar, to get it lined up right and back to where it belonged. Fortunately, the fact that the grease fitting wasn't where I expected to find it when I went to relieve the pressure, made me check more carefully.

astragte_mk2
10-21-2007, 12:48 PM
Many thanks for ur help after a long day i eventually got the bucket to move the idler back and got the track back on.I definitely wont want that to be happening too often, any advice as to how to avoid this happening again think it was a rock tat knock it off

nobull1
10-21-2007, 02:23 PM
Try not to run with the idlers behind you, when on rocky or uneven terrain. Also keep the tracks adjusted.

Brian

Wulf
10-21-2007, 03:32 PM
Try not to run with the idlers behind you, when on rocky or uneven terrain

Won't you increase the risk of final drive failure if you expose the final drive end directly to the rocky or uneven terrain rather than the recoil spring end?

cat320
10-21-2007, 04:25 PM
Now you're not being a dummy! :)

The only excavator track I've thrown was on a Kobelco 35, with rubber tracks. I was in a bunch of gravel and trying to do a pretty hard turn, and it just got jammed up and came right off the front idler. We tried for half an hour to work the thing back on, with no luck. (I didn't have so much as a Crescent wrench with me--all my tools were in the other truck.) Fortunately, the plumber was on the job, and he had a socket set. Once we let off the pressure and used the bucket to push the idler back to where there was plenty of slack available, it took about two minutes to get the track back on. We just raised that side of the machine off the ground with the hoe and ran the track forward and it went right back on.


The Case 310 track loader (1964 model) we used to own had the worst undercarriage in the world. You had to grease each roller daily--no sealed bearings on that machine. Half of them were shot. The bushings were mostly broken, and the sprockets were pretty badly worn too. Track adjustment was accomplished with a big wrench--there was a screw with an adjusting nut and a jam nut. There were no bolts holding the tracks together either--to seperate the chain you had to heat a link up and drive the pin out. There was so much slack that to get any tension on the chains the guy we bought it from had removed one link on each side.

If you didn't run too hard, and paid enough attention you *might* be able to stop before it threw the track all the way off. The best thing about the machine was that it had a ripper on the back. If the track was only partway off you could pick the back end up with the ripper, and the front end up with the buckert, til the whole machine was about a foot in the air. Run the track forward or backward, depending on which way it had come off, maybe humor it over a little bit with a digging bar, and you were good to go, at least til the next time (which was sometimes about five minutes later).
:Banghead


I can hear you on that out old 310 would throw a track all the time It was so offten i felt like i could do it in my sleep lol.

ror76a
10-21-2007, 04:40 PM
I think what he ment was travel with the idelers forward as much as possable. If you are traveling backwards (sprockets first) you would technicly be subjecting the final drives to the rougher terrain, but they should be able to take it. Undercarriages are designed to go forward (idlers first). An undercarriage wears far less if you travel forward than if you always go in reverse - look at the undercarriages of dozers that do ag work or cable plowing - they get much longer life out of the undercarrage than a dozer doing dirt work - that spends half its life backing up. I have operated many dozers with some redicusly worn out undercarriages, never threw a track going forward, always happened going in reverse. You should be able to feel when a track is walking off, and hopefully catch it in time. Also if you are digging over the side you might want to pick up the side you are digging over and rotate that track forward before you travel again, to line it back up.

astragte_mk2
10-21-2007, 04:53 PM
wot a hard day!!!!:eek: thanks for all the advice guys.much appreciated and will gladly accept any more advice on maintaining it. 5 tonne Daewoo.....

Countryboy
10-21-2007, 08:10 PM
Welcome to HEF astragte mk2! :drinkup

John C.
10-21-2007, 10:03 PM
Glad to hear the track got back on and the machine is operational again. There are many tricks to reinstalling tracks and probably the best way to figure them out is to just do it a number of times. I can't remember though that I ever had the luxury of another machine on site to push on the track.

On the subject of which end to travel forward with I always told operators to keep the sprockets on the low side. If you are walking up a hill the sprockets should be behind you. If you are walking down a hill the sprockets should be in front of you.

I haven't seen a failure in a final drive in years that wasn't the result of being just plain oid. Change the oil whenever the book says and keep the wire out of the seals and the darn things just seem to last forever.

soiled undies
10-23-2007, 01:37 PM
I broke the 790 elc deere in the bush. The track does not go into reverse and the hose is broken to the propel motor from the rotary manifold at the rear passenger side. The hose is 90 .5 inches and needs to be switched.

Any tips on doing this job? Supposedly you have to go under the stump pan, under the center of the machine, but the machine is in the bush.

Has anybody ever switch said hose or worked under machine there? Thanks for the help and good tips.:)

Countryboy
10-23-2007, 07:31 PM
Welcome to HEF soiled undies! :drinkup

gussy197
12-10-2007, 11:50 PM
I have not thrown mine yet but this thread will help in the future. I am wondering why my track keeps loosening up. I have a Komatsu PC45-1. I have greased the fitting and it tightens up but when you wait five minutes it sags again. The thing I don't understand is that there is no grease showing up anywhere indicating a leak of any sort. Any ideas?

Twisted
12-12-2007, 09:58 AM
Hey Soiled, get the new hose and a coupler. Fasten the new one to the old one & pull on the old one. That will bring the new hose on the same route. The only hang-up will be any hangers or narrow passages to go threw. Hope this helps.

freedom digger
12-15-2007, 07:48 AM
If your track loosens up you definately have a grease leak.It may not show up at the fitting.It is leaking out of the seal at end of the adjuster ram.
An older Cat I ran had the same problem.Couldn't see the grease until we pulled it out.:usa

bobcat ron
12-15-2007, 11:15 AM
I've put at least 3 tacks on with my Dad on the PC-60's by using a chain hooked on the pad and pulling with the bucket as you walk the excavator along, get the track on the rollers first and inch it along keeping tight tension on the chain would eventually ease the rail up and over the sprocket or idler.
We never had to release the grease tensioner, only if the track was tight too begin with, usually took us 30 minutes to re-rail the track.

And FYI, it's highly recommended to travel with the idlers in the rear as you travel, if the sprockets are behind you and you turn with loose tracks, if one tooth crosses over, you're screwed, this is assuming you have some type of track guide in front of the idlers.

RobVG
09-04-2009, 10:21 PM
I would have thought this thread would be a little longer than it is. :D

As a mechanic, I hate to get a call to put on tracks because it's the opperator that is supposed to keep them adjusted. That said, I have a lot of respect for some of the ways the guy's come up with for putting them on. And I'ts usually a group effort with everyone seeing a different part of the problem.

Like everyone has mentioned before, relieve the preasure and push the idler back in. Start with the sprocket. Once on the sprocket, put a chain on the outside of the track behind the idler and chain to your bucket. Track forward slowly and pull forward and in (crowd out and swing in) with your bucket as you track slowly forward. Having two guys with digging bars to pry it over the idler helps a lot.

Our rock crews get to cheat a little bit. Instead of using a chain, grab the track in your grapple and pull it on....

rockmuncher
09-08-2009, 06:31 AM
Just a couple of tips from my experience,

-Get the bottom of the track in place first(inside the guides, etc) and then on the sprocket(if its off the sprocket)

-Slowly work in onto the idler, don't rush it because it will most probably just fall back off

-If you can suck some mates/colleagues into helping

-If its a bigger machine, another machine will always make life a lot easier

Shane

cosmo
11-25-2009, 01:47 AM
sometimes you can put sticks of wood in between the sprocket and the track and roll it back on.

watglen
11-25-2009, 08:04 AM
This is a great thread, i have a question. When operating my excavator, i find the track on the high side drops out of mesh with the rollers/guides when i cast way over the side. I know this because when i swing back to start the next pass, there is a tremendous clunk as the machine drops back into the track.

How worried should i be about this, and will is cause problems in the future. I have checked the track tension, and it is exactly as it should be in the manual.

Thoughts?

maple flats
11-25-2009, 05:36 PM
It's a much smaller class but I removed a track to do idler and roller repair on my Mitsubishi MXR35 (4 ton) and had no problems. I picked the machine up, blade one end and dipper on the other and blocked it. Then I removed the entire zirk vent assembly and with the blocking holding the machine up I pushed the idler back. Grease shot out about 2 ft. Now I removed the track (rubber) which took about 30 minutes. Going back on took a little longer because the track kept hanging up in the weeds and I couldn't get it slid under easily. Once under and after pulling it over the idler I re installed the vent fitting and pumped grease in. The repairs needed to the idler and rollers was another story for a different thread.

RobVG
11-25-2009, 08:53 PM
Thoughts?

The only thing I can think of is, when a track is worn out, you can lay them out flat and you can pull a pretty big curve in them to the side. You can see this on the machine too. I wonder if even under tension, the tracks are bowing beneath you?

Drifter
11-27-2009, 01:16 AM
This is a great thread, i have a question. When operating my excavator, i find the track on the high side drops out of mesh with the rollers/guides when i cast way over the side. I know this because when i swing back to start the next pass, there is a tremendous clunk as the machine drops back into the track.

How worried should i be about this, and will is cause problems in the future. I have checked the track tension, and it is exactly as it should be in the manual.

Thoughts?

Sounds like your tracks are worn out or on there way.

watglen
11-27-2009, 08:36 AM
I cant imagine the tracks are shot, the machine is 2200 hr 2007. Tracks show no signs of wear yet. Adjusters are still completely retracted.

Maybe they need to be tighter?

RobVG
11-27-2009, 02:47 PM
Can you have someone else run the machine so you can get a closer look?

watglen
11-28-2009, 12:54 AM
Can do....

dirtdigger123
11-30-2009, 11:47 AM
Hey if your in the woods Beware of small stumps 2-4-6in some people cut these off near the top of the ground these will get a track every time. I always loosen the grease fitting nut and let grease out usually take bucket and push idler in easy till grease stops coming out this gives enough slack to put track on then tighten nut and regrease track tension

Digger145
11-30-2009, 04:35 PM
I cant imagine the tracks are shot, the machine is 2200 hr 2007. Tracks show no signs of wear yet. Adjusters are still completely retracted.

Maybe they need to be tighter?
Maybe they do.
Not quite a thousand words, but here's a pic anyway.

dirtdigger123
11-30-2009, 04:43 PM
What kind of terrain u got where ur at

watglen
11-30-2009, 10:40 PM
Thanks, i'm going to check that out on my machine. I checked my manual again, it says i need 13" between the bottom of the track frame and the top of the grouser pad. This is with the track suspended of course. That is exactly where machine is set.

My soil type is nice mellow loam soil, no rocks. Worst thing i get into is mud.

Today, i got around to welding some rub rails on the side of the body. The trees are smashing the crap out of my beautiful volvo, plus an inexperienced operator (me!) doesn't help. By the time i'm done, It'll look like hell.

Anyway, i made some rub rails out of 6x3x1/4 wall tube, chamfered the ends, polished them, and painted them with colour matched paint. Welded them on each side, and touched it up. Looks great.

Then i straightened a few dents in the bodyside doors. Hope to keep that to a minimum from now on.

Digger145
11-30-2009, 11:47 PM
Today, i got around to welding some rub rails on the side of the body. The trees are smashing the crap out of my beautiful volvo, plus an inexperienced operator (me!) doesn't help. By the time i'm done, It'll look like hell.

Anyway, i made some rub rails out of 6x3x1/4 wall tube, chamfered the ends, polished them, and painted them with colour matched paint. Welded them on each side, and touched it up. Looks great.

Then i straightened a few dents in the bodyside doors. Hope to keep that to a minimum from now on.
<insert> Mandatory "pics or it didn't happen" line ;)

peemdub
12-01-2009, 08:25 AM
My CAT 303.5 and I were just wrapping up a terracing gig for the neighbors when the rubber track seemed to bind and split on one side of the track as it was coming across the top of the drive sprocket stopping the track. Elevating the track with the hoe and trying revealed nothing other than the track would move back and forth an inch or two. Uh oh.

Long story short and even an attempt to sew the track back together with aircraft cable to even out the tension, I opened the final drive oil bath allen nuts to find tumble weed blowing through the gears. Cue, whistle.

So, I need a final drive for my 2004 303.5 mini that has 4100 hrs on it. The opposite track is as worn as the one I tried to sew back together and will rapidly wear because I continue to work the machine getting around on one track. Winter is almost here and that will spell the end of the season for the rig.

Has anyone any thoughts on the subject?

New member and need to make it over the threshold of posts.

CAT 303.5 excavator
CAT 904B loader
CAT TC30 forklift
NH TNS70 tractor

Digger145
12-01-2009, 04:13 PM
My CAT 303.5 and I .....
..... opened the final drive oil bath allen nuts to find tumble weed blowing through the gears. Cue, whistle.

Has anyone any thoughts on the subject?


cue whistle lol
Don't bother trying to repair the final, just get a secondhand one from the wreckers / dismantlers - much cheaper. If you are tight for a quid / buck that also might be an option for the track as well.

peemdub
12-01-2009, 09:53 PM
Thanks for the reply and advise Digger. I'll take it. Or at least I'll start looking around for someone taking one of these apart (hopefully, not mine).

My thought and wallet inclination is to do nothing until spring rolls around; the excavator sits for Jan- Feb- Mar- because there is no way to get it to go through frost over 6".

A few names of sourcing anyone care to throw out?

Rockin- thanks again!

watglen
12-01-2009, 11:52 PM
I measured my tracks per the diagram above and in my case f needs to be 1" - 1.5". 'L' is 54". One track was 1", the other was 2", so i tightened it up to 1.5".

I guess we'll see how that works.

Thanks

Ken

Digger145
12-02-2009, 12:27 AM
I measured my tracks per the diagram above and in my case f needs to be 1" - 1.5". 'L' is 54". One track was 1", the other was 2", so i tightened it up to 1.5".

I guess we'll see how that works.

Thanks

Ken

1/2" slack is going to make bugger-all difference to the track stepping out. :(
It you don't have track or "rock guards", knock some up cheaply out of steel angle.

Four lenghts of 90* steel angle + enough round bar to go between the bottom rollers. Angle size will change depending on the machine - depth from frame rails to grousers, that kinda thing.
Get the oxy out and cut some recesses in the top part of the 90* steel angle to fit the bottom roller mounts. Also blow some holes in the flat side you put up against the chains to allow some round bar to be fitted through. Keep the holes nice and close to the height of the bottom of the rails when it is mounted in place. Round off the leading and trailing edges of the steel angle.

Check to see if you have mounting holes in the underside of the rails first, otherwise stitch weld only for mounting. It goes without saying you slip the round bar through the holes and weld the inner and outer guard(you have made) to the rod on the outside only.

Don't laugh at my rubbish sketch - OK. It will might give you a better idea of what I'm talking about though. Maybe ;)

watglen
12-02-2009, 10:53 AM
I swear I saw the sham-wow guy selling something that looked just like that last week!

digger145, is there something you're not telling us?

My machine has the track guide rock guards, but that is a helluva good effort though!:notworthy

Digger145
12-02-2009, 07:22 PM
I swear I saw the sham-wow guy selling something that looked just like that last week!

digger145, is there something you're not telling us?

My machine has the track guide rock guards, but that is a helluva good effort though!:notworthy

I had to search what shamwow was. lol
You know us bush Aussies though, we can patch it with a hammer, welder or if need be bits of a dead cat to get it to work in a pinch...

If you've got tight chains, low hours (for the bottom roller lips), track guards, there isn't much left is there? Tracks filling up with muck/clay?

flitemedic
02-21-2010, 09:18 PM
I'm replacing the traveldrive lines on an '88 Cat E70B.....I've noticed that one track has more slack than the other side...what is the best way to adjust?..Toby

tepusquet
02-22-2010, 10:33 AM
leak in track tensioner. Is the grease track tensioner supposed to take the primary forces making the track loose? Or does the track tensioner just get everything in place so that the spring/yoke bolt can be set? Because my track tensioner is laeking grease. I can run it for 15min but then I have to put a new tube of grease in it so the track isn't very very loose. Should I try to fix the grease leak? or it is hopeless because the grease fitting isn't meant to take full operating forces on the track? Note, the spring isn't taking any forces because it is broken and the yoke bolt is too rusted to adjust.

So, what is the best way to fix a leaking grease track adjuster? If I pumped the tensioner out so it is where i should be, some super glue might get inside the seal and plug the leak. I'm worried that it would also bong to the hydraulic shaft and if it gets pushed back in then it might destroy more of the seal. Or I could use some of that putty stuff, wrap the shaft in plastic wrap to keep it from bonding to the shaft and then try to make a better seal with the putty on the cylindar housing. Or use the putty on the shaft to make the shaft slightly wider so it might seal tight if the wide part slips back in to the loose seal. Or there are some glues that are more rubbery than hard brital. Maybe a "thread lock" glue would fill the seal gap but not bond to the metal if it is a type for bolts that need to be unscrewed.

Anyway, I didn't see any responses to this question. I thought it would be common. Don't track tension hydraulic grease seals get loose as much as the hydraulic oil seals? How to fix a leaking grease hydraulic seal on a track tensioner? Track is on 1960's Cat D4 dozer


Thanks! and free beer for any help =)

timber71
03-28-2010, 03:02 PM
I just got done installing new tracks on a deere 650g. They ordered me a 38 link instead of a 37. This is not my fault as the dealership came out and did the estimate and ordered the parts. Can these sealed pins be pressed out to remove a link or do I need to start over?

QuickTrax
03-28-2010, 03:31 PM
I just got done installing new tracks on a deere 650g. They ordered me a 38 link instead of a 37. This is not my fault as the dealership came out and did the estimate and ordered the parts. Can these sealed pins be pressed out to remove a link or do I need to start over?

According to my books, the JD 650G is 38 links.

timber71
03-28-2010, 04:55 PM
The chain I took off had 37. I wonder if someone before me pulled a link to shorten them up a little.

Thanks.

QuickTrax
03-28-2010, 08:40 PM
Someone probably short tracked both tracks previously. I would buckle them and get them adjusted correctly and make sure they fit. You are going to need two extra pads if you don't have them.

Good Luck, QuickTrax

mitch504
03-28-2010, 11:08 PM
To get back to the original thread: Years ago we had an old koehring, and the tracks were so worn out that the operator would come off the truck and go untill a track came off, then move it out of the way and walk on the bucket to work. For some reason once one came off the other usually stayed on. On the way back he would straighten it out and walk back into it and put on with just the bucket (no thumb) without getting out of the seat.

mitch504
03-28-2010, 11:27 PM
leak in track tensioner. Is the grease track tensioner supposed to take the primary forces making the track loose? Or does the track tensioner just get everything in place so that the spring/yoke bolt can be set? Because my track tensioner is laeking grease. I can run it for 15min but then I have to put a new tube of grease in it so the track isn't very very loose. Should I try to fix the grease leak? or it is hopeless because the grease fitting isn't meant to take full operating forces on the track? Note, the spring isn't taking any forces because it is broken and the yoke bolt is too rusted to adjust.

So, what is the best way to fix a leaking grease track adjuster? If I pumped the tensioner out so it is where i should be, some super glue might get inside the seal and plug the leak. I'm worried that it would also bong to the hydraulic shaft and if it gets pushed back in then it might destroy more of the seal. Or I could use some of that putty stuff, wrap the shaft in plastic wrap to keep it from bonding to the shaft and then try to make a better seal with the putty on the cylindar housing. Or use the putty on the shaft to make the shaft slightly wider so it might seal tight if the wide part slips back in to the loose seal. Or there are some glues that are more rubbery than hard brital. Maybe a "thread lock" glue would fill the seal gap but not bond to the metal if it is a type for bolts that need to be unscrewed.

Anyway, I didn't see any responses to this question. I thought it would be common. Don't track tension hydraulic grease seals get loose as much as the hydraulic oil seals? How to fix a leaking grease hydraulic seal on a track tensioner? Track is on 1960's Cat D4 dozer


Thanks! and free beer for any help =)

You'll want to hit me over the head with that beer after you read this but: any glues or putty will be a complete waste of time. That track adjuster is a hydraulic cylinder. The pressures inside are in excess of a couple thuosand psi. It has to come apart and have new seals installed exactly like packing a cylinder. The most fun will be splitting the track. Also the cylinder itself (Cat calls it a pilot :beatsme) will probably have to be replaced due to side wear to get the new seals to hold. sorry:(

tepusquet
04-08-2010, 07:36 PM
You'll want to hit me over the head with that beer after you read this but: any glues or putty will be a complete waste of time. That track adjuster is a hydraulic cylinder. The pressures inside are in excess of a couple thuosand psi. It has to come apart and have new seals installed exactly like packing a cylinder. The most fun will be splitting the track. Also the cylinder itself (Cat calls it a pilot :beatsme) will probably have to be replaced due to side wear to get the new seals to hold. sorry:(

Thanks mitch504. Guess I'll just be driving careful until the track falls off completely or I learn to torch cut off the rusted parts.

Jayenelee
03-28-2011, 10:52 PM
Thanks for the good thread. I have a Case 310 loader with the spring tensioners and spoked wheels, and course threaded bolts. We bought it as scrap with a tree grown through the track....

Now I'm logging with it, even though the tracks are so shot I'll be putting a horseshoe on the left one to keep it on the front idler. If my 24" walnut logs are worth anything, I might be able to afford to send it for some much needed quality time with the mechanic.

I'm sure I'm the worst dummie on this thread but after putting that track 4 times today, I thought I might have a few tips.

Catch it early as possible; mine almost invariably jumps the front idler first.

Keep it or get it on the bottom rollers no matter what.

When it jumps off the bull gear, put it on the front idler and get it under the rollers, then work the tractor forward using the bucket, some chain and a nearby tree.;) If needed you can assist a bit with the other track. Just make sure the cleats don't catch anything on the bull gear that would force it down. Also make sure it continues to stay on the front idler, and lower rollers. My track pops back on every time. (so far)

When you catch it coming off the front idler, (tractor usually lurches a bit toward that side) make sure track stays on the rollers, take a sturdy sapling (hickory or ash) or a digging bar (the latter are worse about sliding out), jam it into the carriage and tie it to the loader arm. Move forward a bit, and tighten the tie, repeat until track jumps back on the front idler. If stick is willing to stay at it's post, leave it there; you can catch a higher gear and not worry about leaving the track behind.:)

saiphes
05-17-2011, 06:19 PM
Good posts! I've split the track on mine to reseal the "pilot" track tensioner and reinstall new carrier plates (not rollers). What's the best way to make the pin line up? When you bang it out, it's under the idler - where's the easiest place to line it up again?

Jayenelee
05-18-2011, 10:47 AM
I was thinking about this thread the other day. Dad was running the crawler and the track came off. The only difference was, I finally discovered the bearings were out on the front idler!!! You know, I only checked for that twice and somehow never caught it. But now I did and replaced the bearings last Saturday. I never saw a bearing that was as destroyed as the one (inner race was powder, ball cage was mangled, and the balls varied in size) and still be able to merely press the new bearings into place. The other had spalls coming off the inner race. I was very thankful.

All the other times, the track came off in mud. This time it was sunny and dry: I found I had to oil the bull gear and track to make my technique of track installation work.

This does not change the terrible fact that I still need to get the track repinned to prevent terrible wear to the bull gears, but at least I can still run the machine in a civilised manner until I can afford to do that. :):cool2

Jayenelee
05-18-2011, 10:54 AM
Good posts! I've split the track on mine to reseal the "pilot" track tensioner and reinstall new carrier plates (not rollers). What's the best way to make the pin line up? When you bang it out, it's under the idler - where's the easiest place to line it up again? Some folks say their is a special tool for that. others tell me a chain binder with shop fabricated dogs for holding the track works well. I have never split the track, and I think my brother used a ratcheting tie down when he took a link out of the tracks a few years ago.

JakeRogers
12-15-2011, 06:08 PM
I realize this is an old thread, but I'm new and can't seem to figure out how to start a new one. Recently got a used Cat 308c SR with about 400 hours...seemed to have been run hard and put up wet. Very little maintenance done also. I do think I got a good deal at about $40k but have continuous problems of tracks coming off. I've done all maintenance, except hydraulic filter/fluid change. Tension cylinder seems good with very little slack increase over hours of ops. I've tried tight, 2.25" sag (max by the book), 1.5" (min by the book); but nothing seems to work. I can be on relatively level ground (sandy loam) and it comes off for apparently no reason. Some times it operates fine for hours, at others It has come off twice in 1/2 hour. I am considering building up on idler by having a 1/4" band welded on ( there is about 3/8 clearance between chain I.D and idler O.D.)...I'm assuming it is weldable material??? Any advise before I do something stupid? I feel I am an expert at putting a track on, as I've done 7 times in maybe 24 hours of ops. Thanks for any advise as I have 24 hours experience with excavator ops/maintenance.
Jake

nobull1
12-15-2011, 06:40 PM
You are right it is an old thread. I started it about 7.5 years ago:eek:. I suspect it is some other problem that you have not discovered as of yet. 400 hours is not a lot of hours to wear track parts out, normally. Is it always one track, does it come off going forward or reverse, are the tracks coming loose? Just a few of the things that come to mind.

QuickTrax
12-15-2011, 08:48 PM
You need to make sure your idler is good. With only 400 hours on the machine, the undercarriage should be ok even if your in sandy loam. Excavators shouldn't wear nearly as fast as a dozer. If your track is getting loose it is probably your track adjuster seals. Next time your track comes off inspect everything thoroughly. Good luck.

JakeRogers
12-16-2011, 11:34 AM
Right side has come off 5 times, almost always in reverse. Left one twice, but it was on an incline (along track centerline). The right one is weaker than the left...could that be contributing?

JakeRogers
12-16-2011, 11:39 AM
Inspect thoroughly??? For what? Manual only says to adjust slack which has not worked. Any idea how much rise the center of idler should be? Ever heard of building this area up to help with this problem? Thanks for any suggestions, as I'm at a loss and don't look forward to paying Cat $200+ / hour to drive 100 mile round trip and look!

QuickTrax
12-16-2011, 03:44 PM
The reason you need to inspect thoroughly is because your manual is worthless at this point if you have done what is says and your problem is not corrected. At this point I would check your idlers and make sure the bearings are not out. If you have a bad idler it could cause your track to come off. You stated that you have very little slack increase over many hours. How many do you consider many hours? With 400 hours on your chains they shouldn't be worn out but if this machine was walked constantly it is possible your pins and bushings have excessive wear. If this is the case your chains could be very snakey and moving your machine in a certain way could make the track come off. I think building up the idler would only be patching a problem. An idler would not wear to the extent that it needs welding in only 400 hours.

My thought is your pins and bushings have heavy wear and are making your tracks sloppy which is causing them to come off. Most operators favor one side and the previous owner probably favored the right side and that why it has came off 5 times.
Thanks, QuickTrax

danc
12-16-2011, 05:53 PM
put a mark (paint,correction fluid) on the frame, and the idler block when you have the track at the correct tension. Work away and watch if they go out of alignment,i.e the idler creeps back.... if so your track adjuster seal is gone.

check that the frame hasn't spread apart where the idler blocks slide, allowing the idler to be tensioned sideways.

Jayenelee
12-16-2011, 07:56 PM
Definitely check your front idler bearings. Make sure your track is not against them when you check them as it will give you an illusion of the idler being solid. Is your undercarriage adjustible in the back? On my Case 310 Crawler, I finally learned that it was, and that it was far enough out of adjustment that the track had to curve between the bottom rollers and the bull gear. It liked coming off at any opportunity!

I learned a lot of thi$$$$ about my machine when I had it in to have the tranny rebuilt and the pins and bushings turned, this fall. When I got it back, there was still so much slop in the tracks that they came off the reconditioned bottom rollers easier than before, and were harder to get back on. I made track guards for it. It sure is fun running now!:)

JakeRogers
12-17-2011, 01:15 PM
Thanks to all for this advise and info...climbing that learning curve. Jayenelee said you made "track guards". What's that? Yesterday in the mud, blood and beer; I noticed a plate (track guard maybe?) at about 6 o'clock located both outboard and inboard of idler. The inboard one was bent nearly horizontal away from the idler...all others has only slight angle away from idler. The track came off (and most times has) to the inside of this idler. Looks like this could be my problem or at least the cause of most track offs. It appears these would tend to keep the track on the idler, at least on level ground. Is this slight angle away from idler proper or are they all bent out some? Must have gotten a large rock wedged between idler and this guard before I got machine, as no rock here in Mendenhall, Ms. Thanks again for more advise...seem to be getting closer to solution.
Jake

Jayenelee
12-17-2011, 07:24 PM
Jake, all I've learned about tracked machines, I've learned on my old Case 310; thus I only have this experience and whatever mechanical aptitude I have to go on. But it really sounds like you are on to something with what you described. Obviously for any kind of guard or guide to be useful, it must positively block the movement of the track in any undesired direction, while not interfering with the intended function of the track. If you have one or more other of those items positioned to appear to serve that purpose on the machine I think the answer should be apparrent. If your track is meshing nicely with the drive gear, and your bearings are all good, track gaurds or the far more common guards would be your cheapest solution by far.

If I manage to successfully attach a picture of my work, you will see why I call mine "track gaurds". I made them the way I did because my older style tracks and pads would pack the entire track frame with mud if I went the conventional "rock gaurd" route.

Jayenelee
12-17-2011, 07:33 PM
Much to my own surprise, I succeeded to get a picture posted with that last post. The origional track frame is rusty with remaining flecks of orange. My work is the muddy black iron comprised of three mounts, (the two front ones are plainly visible and just an angled corner of the back one is visible at the right edge of the photo) the 1 x 1" iron bar, three spacer pipes and through bolts to secure the inner and outer gaurds together.

JakeRogers
12-20-2011, 12:06 PM
Thank you, many times over...this is exactly what I need, as the installed guards are not functioning properly...bearings are good on idlers and rollers, alignment of rollers with sprockets and idlers is good, track joints are tight, hydraulic cylinder doesn't leak down, chain tracks well on sprocket. I really don't know what else it can be in light of most track offs occur going in reverse.
Thank you all again for the help in this wonderful forum of Heavy Equipment users...I only wish I had discovered it earlier. I did however learn a lot with my experience and that's the kind you don't forget.
Jake

digger104
12-28-2011, 08:43 PM
I released all the grease and worked several hours and still
could not get it on. split the track, pin type. found out that the big nut that holds the spring retracted was gone. stripped the threads off. Kobelco wanted around 1000 buck for the shaft. Took a petal hook and cut the bolt off and used it and the nut. same size and thread cut the stripped shaft off and welded the pental shaft on. Works fine and a cheap fix.

stubborn1
01-10-2012, 05:29 PM
Greetings fellow masochists!
I too own a Case 310E Ive been rebuilding over 15 years. I'm running it now but I can see the end coming for this undercarriage. In the repair manual, they explain how after considerable wear, as the chain pitch lengthens, the chain will ride higher in the sprocket teeth. This actually requires you to run your track chain a little on the loose side to keep from binding up. Do not make the mistake of overtightening a worn chain.
I have a fair bit of experience under my belt now on this machine so if I can help anyone, say so, & maybe I'll start a current thread.

jason975
01-16-2012, 10:41 PM
I'm the road mechanic for chartrand equipment here in timmins and we have a couple dozen shovels and i do alot of tracks, you just need a good chain, get it on the drive, snug it up to the undercarriage and put the small hook on the edge of the track pad and chain the other end to the opposite track or the stick (depending on which side it came off) lift the side and walk it, 20 minutes tops. when you get the hang of it you look like a hero

jason975
01-16-2012, 10:43 PM
forgot to mention an electric grease gun, alemite is the best