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View Full Version : Replacing Brake Bands on D5



d5cat
11-07-2011, 02:45 PM
I have a 1973 Caterpillar D5B (96J Series). One of my brake bands is completely shot and the other is almost out of adjustment. I figured it would be best to replace both at the same time. Has anyone replaced the brake bands on this machine before? I was wondering how difficult it will be to replace them because I am trying to decide whether to have CAT replace them for me or try to replace them myself. Any ideas on how long this should take an experienced dozer mechanic? I am sure CAT will charge an arm, leg, and a few fingers. I was hoping to have someone come help me do it, but it isn't easy finding an experienced dozer mechanic in my area. If anyone knows of someone in the Des Moines, IA area, please let me know. I rather do it myself so I can learn, but I don't want to get in over my head!

Nige
11-07-2011, 04:33 PM
If you can't find an experienced independent mechanic in your area you could always have a word with your the local Cat dealer and ask them if they are prepared to do the steering clutch/brake band removal and replacement if you do all the preparatory work including getting the covers off and then box it all up again afterwards. That gets you the use of all the special tools necessary (it's a list almost as long as your arm) to get the clutches out and back again whilst at least keeping your fingers intact, and maybe one arm & possibly a leg as well.

Best I can think of off the top of my head.

54j
11-07-2011, 05:37 PM
excellent, I've been looking forward to contributing rather than asking!. We have a very similar tractor (mines 54j) I redid the brake bands a few months ago when everything else was apart rebuilding the final drives. The bands themselves were easy, 6 sections per side and the parts were 'only' about $100.00 Aud. You will need to drill out the old rivets , replace the bands, drill new holes through the bands and put in new rivets to hold the pads to the metal bands. It's very easy. I had the clutch packs out anyway when I did them and would doubt you could remove the bands without removing the packs...but check on this. The clutch packs were fairly easy to remove with basic tools. 'Undoing' the lock tags was interesting and everything else was straight forward. You have to remove the yoke assembly to winch out the packs (they are about 100kg I think????) The one good thing about having the packs out is that you can really have a good look around....pressure clean the compartment and pressure clean the clutch itself.it was amazing how much crap came out and how much better it worked after a good clean. Make sure there is no oil in the compartment as this is a dry system.

Nige
11-07-2011, 06:06 PM
Tell him how much stuff needs to be removed to actually get access to the clutch/brake compartment though ...........

grandpa
11-07-2011, 06:39 PM
You sure you can't replace the bands on that machine thru the access holes without removing the clutch packs? Im thinking you can. But I've been wrong before...lol.

jrtraderny
11-07-2011, 06:47 PM
You sure you can't replace the bands on that machine thru the access holes without removing the clutch packs? Im thinking you can. But I've been wrong before...lol.

Yep through the access holes, no problem.
All he needs to take off are the covers on top and on the back, unhook the brake linkage and take the bands apart.
3 pieces I believe on each one, bolted together. Might have to remove the seat too.
Not a big deal, only need to remember to back off the support bolt on the bottom of the brake housing.
jr

grandpa
11-07-2011, 06:55 PM
Thanks for reassuring an old man .

TOM V
11-07-2011, 06:55 PM
If all you have to do is change the bands, they will come out in three pieces and the steering clutch will remain bolted to the flanges. try to find a service manual, it shows everything you need to know, good luck.

tctractors
11-08-2011, 01:24 PM
D5cat, the D5B;s that I have worked on are fitted with a 720 brake band, that does not unbolt into 3 sections, the only special service tool you will need is found between your ears, you will have to remove the steering clutch to swap out the brake band, this is easy to do only needing the bolts removing on the drum and clutch mounting faces, the brake anchor plate is bolted onto the back of the main case, this will need removing also the anchor pins and adjuster, then you need to lft out the clutch with a sling strangled to grip and the jobs done,you will need to ether jack or push the tractor forward or backwards to get at all the bolts holding the clutch and drum in place, or split the tracks, but I feel fairly sure the bands are not the 3 section set-up that has been already been put forward.
I might be wrong?? tctractors but I am putting my name to it

p.s. you dont have any clutch yokes to worry about on the 5B its oil bosted, just get em out

JeremiahSr
11-08-2011, 02:19 PM
This is what it looks like inside. Not a great pic but you can see how each end is pinned and the bolt on under the case.

LonestarCobra
11-08-2011, 02:22 PM
A 96 J is not a D5B. If it is a 96J, the bands will come out in 3 pieces like has been stated. If it does happen to be a D5B such as a 24X, the steering clutch will have to be removed. Either way, no special tools required.

tctractors
11-08-2011, 03:20 PM
D5cat if it is the early D5 tractor with the dry case, it is a lot simpler to do, remove the adjustable support bolt from under the case, slacken off the brake adjuster and remove the anchor pins and anchor, rotate the band around the drum and undo the section bolts and fiddle out the 3 sections, as Loanstar has said, all you need is afew hand tools, JeremiahSr parts listing is showing the 3 section brake band set up, it is not a hard job to tackle, oh and double check on the model and serial No, so next time you are getting the best help.

grandpa
11-08-2011, 06:59 PM
D5cat.... now don't leave us hanging... let us know what you found.:)

jrtraderny
11-08-2011, 08:35 PM
If it's a 1973 it 's a 96J with 3 piece dry bamds.
Chances are if it was newer and had wet bands he wouldn't be replacing them .
The B series didn't come out until later like late 70's early 80's.
jr

d5cat
11-08-2011, 11:29 PM
Thanks to everyone for the help, I wasn't expecting so many responses! I think everyone gave the correct response based on what they thought I had. Just as others have mentioned, I gave conflicting information. When I bought the machine the seller said it was a D5B, but after further investigation it is not. I checked the serial plate again and it just says D5. The serial number is 96J3843 and it is a 1973 so it has a 3 piece dry band. I had never even operated a bulldozer before I bought this machine a couple years ago so I am learning as I go. Sorry for the confusion.

It doesn't sound too bad so I am going to give it a shot. I certainly know where to come for questions. Thanks again for everyone's input.

d5cat
11-09-2011, 12:14 AM
Another quick question. How bad is it if I have just been tightening the adjustment nut on the brake band? I never knew there was a setscrew on the bottom that needed adjusted. I had someone that said they knew dozers help me do basic maintenance for the first time after I just bought the machine (about 2 years ago) and they just tightened the nut on the brake band. He also told me I would have to take the track off to get at the brake bands and that is what scared me away from changing the bands in the first place. Then again to replace the belts he had us taking off the damn fan guard (and to get that off we also had to take the pipe that runs down from the coolant tank off) instead of just feeding the belt through the opening in the top of the fan guard...blind leading the blind. I think the worst was the 1/2 hour he took to screw on the oil filter because he was trying to screw it on the wrong way. And yes, I paid him for all of his "expert help", which still makes me sick to this day.

Anyway, when I looked at the bands when I recently took off the top plate, the pads seemed to have plenty of life left. I wonder if I just need to tighten that screw at the bottom. I will be a little mad at myself considering I just cleaned up my last farm using just the left brake if that is the case. I just bought the machine for farm work so obviously I have no clue what I am doing. Can someone please tell me how to get at that screw on the bottom of the brake band?

54j
11-09-2011, 03:49 AM
going back a step or two d5cat......do you need to change out the bands???...from memory brand new pads had about 5-7mm...roughly...that should give you some idea. If you only have brakes on one side it's prob something else......a simple adjustment for example. You should have inspection plates (about110x170mm) right at the back of the dozer.if you use a torch you'll be able to see the bands.have they got life left in them?.....have you removed the drain plug to that compartment?....is it 100% dry...no oil???? Just remember the golden rule STAY CALM.these things are actually quite simple to work on.not necessarily easy but simple. There's really knowledgable people on here that'll give good advice.I'm only a novice but have been having fun with a similar dozer.

OldandWorn
11-09-2011, 06:15 AM
You should have inspection plates (about110x170mm) right at the back of the dozer.if you use a torch you'll be able to see the bands.

I wish you could have seen the look on my face when I read that. I was thinking.....now why would he need to cut a hole when there are inspection plates until I remembered torch is another word for a flashlight. :o A guy from South Africa taught me the meaning of that word years back and it finally clicked.

Old Magnet
11-09-2011, 11:20 AM
Guess I'm late to the party on this one (as usual). The early D5's are nothing more than the old D6 (R and U series) back ends. The bottom screw is just a support for the brake band to keep the band from dropping down and riding on the drum. When your done with the brake work and adjustment, have someone press the brake pedal while you tighten the set screw then back off 1-1/2 turns and set the lock nut. Pretty straight forward job unless you don't deal with the bottom screw.

If the brake is not worn it may be oil soaked, often caused by leaking pinion seal/s. That's a dreaded job. LOL

d5cat
11-10-2011, 01:45 PM
Guess I'm late to the party on this one (as usual). The early D5's are nothing more than the old D6 (R and U series) back ends. The bottom screw is just a support for the brake band to keep the band from dropping down and riding on the drum. When your done with the brake work and adjustment, have someone press the brake pedal while you tighten the set screw then back off 1-1/2 turns and set the lock nut. Pretty straight forward job unless you don't deal with the bottom screw.

If the brake is not worn it may be oil soaked, often caused by leaking pinion seal/s. That's a dreaded job. LOL

When I started to take out the bolts for the top plate to adjust the right brake band I knew I was in trouble. There was oil on the threads. I lifted off the plate and everything was coated in oil. I think the final drive oil leaked into the brake compartment. I had to unscrew the bottom brake bolt to drain all the oil. That explains why the right brake completely stopped working.

I am also having trouble getting the left brake band tighter. I could feel plenty of pad on the band, but I can not get the top nut to tighten anymore. I can feel that the brake band is loose. It is almost like the top nut on the brake band is frozen.

Does anyone have ideas how to get rid of all the oil in my right brake compartment????? I am a feeling I am in trouble with this...

Old Magnet
11-10-2011, 03:36 PM
Yes, sounds like the left brake adjuster is froze up or the threads are corroded. There is a large drain plug under the steering clutch compartments for draining. Can be drilled for a cotter pin wiggler for permanent drainage.
There are techniques for washing the clutch compartment described in the Owners Instruction Manual but that is only a temporary fix. Usually it's the pinion seals that cause the problem as they are high in the housing and dribble on to the hub and drum. Bevel gear compartment seals can also leak but the oil normally does not get to the brakes unless the compartment fills to where the drum dips in the oil. Yup, looks like your in for some serious repairs.

54j
11-11-2011, 04:10 AM
do a search on a thread I started back in June (I think) about loosing all motion on one track...it'll go through what I had to do. Obviously you won't need to rebuild the final drives(great) but you'll need to work out why the oil is in there. two questions..how many hours has the machine done? and most importantly do you feel any 'pulsing' comeing back onto the steering brake pedal on the side with the leak?

d5cat
11-12-2011, 08:43 PM
do a search on a thread I started back in June (I think) about loosing all motion on one track...it'll go through what I had to do. Obviously you won't need to rebuild the final drives(great) but you'll need to work out why the oil is in there. two questions..how many hours has the machine done? and most importantly do you feel any 'pulsing' comeing back onto the steering brake pedal on the side with the leak?

The total hours is around 4500. I don't really feel a pulsing when I use the brake pedal. What would be the problem if I did feel that? I will do a search on your thread to see what it contains.

d5cat
11-12-2011, 08:55 PM
Yes, sounds like the left brake adjuster is froze up or the threads are corroded. There is a large drain plug under the steering clutch compartments for draining. Can be drilled for a cotter pin wiggler for permanent drainage.
There are techniques for washing the clutch compartment described in the Owners Instruction Manual but that is only a temporary fix. Usually it's the pinion seals that cause the problem as they are high in the housing and dribble on to the hub and drum. Bevel gear compartment seals can also leak but the oil normally does not get to the brakes unless the compartment fills to where the drum dips in the oil. Yup, looks like your in for some serious repairs.

I was able to drain all the oil. What happened is the plug that is usually there to drain the oil out of the brake compartment is no longer there. There was a bunch of dirt in the hole which caused the hole to plug up. This caused alot of oil to back up into the drum/band area. There was probably 2 gallons of oil that came out of there. My guess is it is the bevel gear seal. I knew the final drives leaked but it was never a problem until that hole got plugged because it was just able to drip out. I will do a search to see how to get all the remnant oil out of there so that the brake can engage without slipping.

d5cat
11-12-2011, 09:08 PM
do a search on a thread I started back in June (I think) about loosing all motion on one track...it'll go through what I had to do. Obviously you won't need to rebuild the final drives(great) but you'll need to work out why the oil is in there. two questions..how many hours has the machine done? and most importantly do you feel any 'pulsing' comeing back onto the steering brake pedal on the side with the leak?

So I looked up your thread. It seems gasoline is the consensus to dump into the compartment. Did you try this? If so, did it work? I am fine with the seal leaking, I will just make sure it is being drained properly. I called CAT and they quoted me $2700 to fix the final drive seals. I asked how much to replace both brake bands while there were at it and it was $1500/per side. I damn near fell on the floor.

54j
11-13-2011, 03:05 AM
no , I didn't try the gasoline trick as I had to pull everything apart. My opinion for what it's worth is that you may want to find out why the oil is there. The compartment is meant to be dry and from what I saw on my tractor was that the seals won't fail unless something is really wrong. I know thats an obvious thing to say but if the oil is comming from the final drive housing then I would be worried about the 10 tooth pinion at the top not running true and is 'stretching' the seal enough to allow the oil through. Before I bit the bullet and rebuilt the back end I did try degreaser and brake cleaner but it had no effect. My opinion is that you need to find out the problem, fix it and at the same time change the bands. Remember I'm no expert though.

d5cat
11-16-2011, 09:22 AM
Well I figured I would provide an update for the people who have been following along. I was able to make a brake pedal linkage adjustment to get my left brake to work again. I was able to drain out all of the oil in the right brake compartment, then had someone spray brake cleaner (alot of it) on the right brake band/drum as I drove it back and forth with applying the brakes. So far that did the trick and the right brakes works great again. It turns out both bands/pads were fine after all.

Thanks everyone for your tips, tricks, and ideas.

OldandWorn
11-16-2011, 02:52 PM
Good to hear when a problem takes the easy path.

Old Magnet
11-16-2011, 03:44 PM
But!!!! Haven't fixed anything.

acudanut
03-19-2013, 12:06 PM
This is what it looks like inside. Not a great pic but you can see how each end is pinned and the bolt on under the case.

That looks like my D7 Dozer. I unbolted one section of the brake band but cannot see any other sections to unbolt. This is kicking my butt and I cannot get the rest to slide out. errrrr

Metalman 55
03-19-2013, 05:45 PM
We had done the same job on our D4D a few months back & could not get the band assembly to slide around until loosing the bottom support stud....then it slid around quite easy. I wonder if the D7 is the same? We only had to take the top & back inspection plates off to gain access. Think the D4D was in either 3 or 4 sections.

acudanut
03-19-2013, 07:40 PM
I think there might be a bottom support stud. However, after taking the rear inspections plates off, I found it did me no good. I can't see anything with this cable unit mounted in the rear.
it's killing my view. eeer.
What's the purpose of this stud. ? What does it support. ?

Metalman 55
03-19-2013, 09:37 PM
On our smaller D4D, the stud seemed to be a support, riding against the bottom of the shoe assembly, to keep the bottom of the brake band assembly up close & tight to the bottom of the drums, thus preventing the shoes from a bottom sag. If you look at one of the earlier threads here, you see the diagram of the brake shoe assembly & you can see the stud on the bottom. Hope this helps.

acudanut
03-20-2013, 11:30 AM
The stud's job sounds legit to me. The Big question is: How to remove it, and is my cable unit mounted in the rear going to prevent this. ?
The diagram that was posted on page one is too small and blurry to see much at all. Does anyone have a better diagram of it. Thank you so much for your help.. Cheers.

Scrub Puller
03-20-2013, 02:07 PM
Yair . . .acudanut PCU shouldn't be a factor mate . . . access is from underneath tractor.

Cheers

acudanut
03-20-2013, 06:28 PM
Well, that's good. Can't see crap in the rear inspection holes with that dang Cable unit. It will be a few days before I try to find that stud underneath. I have only been able to disconnect one portion of the sleeve/shoe. I wish I could find a better diagram. Cheers.

Metalman 55
03-20-2013, 06:48 PM
Yes, I agree, if the D7 is the same as the smaller machines, the stud is located underneath & I think there is a jam nut to loosen first & then back off the stud for some clearance so the shoes can be slid around.

acudanut
03-20-2013, 09:18 PM
We shall see. I'll let you know. Cheers