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View Full Version : Opinions on CAT 416B



Duke
02-16-2007, 06:56 PM
Just wanted to get opinions on CAT backhoes from that era (1994) from owners & operators of them. No kids please. ;)
I'm down to a CAT 416B or CASE 580. Leaning towards CAT based on what others have told me.

The Perkins diesel is great, no worry there.

How do you think CAT ranks in terms of backhoes?

HeyUvaVT
02-16-2007, 07:30 PM
Friend of mine had a CASE..it was decent I guess but seemed a bit under whelming when it came to power...I would go with the CAT

biggixxerjim
02-16-2007, 07:52 PM
Cat over case anyday, any machine. Period.

Duke
02-16-2007, 07:58 PM
Friend of mine had a CASE..it was decent I guess but seemed a bit under whelming when it came to power...I would go with the CAT


Funny you say that...Case 580 has about 10 more HP than a CAT416B (~82HP vs ~72HP). The cases I ran seemed more hopped-up on power, but that was the only advantage I saw that they had.

Otherwise, the CAT seemed heavier built, but a little gutless power-wise. Could have just been the one I was running....

Cat420
02-16-2007, 08:27 PM
What year Case are you comparing it to? A newer Case would be better than an older Cat depending on price difference. If they are about the same age, neither will have bells and whistles, but should be plenty reliable and have enough power to get the job done. Cat made a decent jump from the B to the C, just like Case did from K to L. As long as you feel that your local dealer for either brand is dependable, I wouldn't be too worried about the differences between two equally aged machines.

Duke
02-16-2007, 09:13 PM
The case & CAT were both mid-90's machines.

There is a CAT 416C available to me as well. The only differences I could see were in the cab & FEL. The rest looked almost the same.

Are there more differences than that?

Cat420
02-16-2007, 09:45 PM
They added some HP. The engine is referred to as Cat 3054, rather than Perkins, so I assumed that Cat did some work there. I'm pretty sure Cat did some structural stuff. The C series looks like it sits lower and wider. The front axle and backhoe boom are also heavier. There's a lot more plastic and fiberglass, so it won't rust out on you. Visibility is much better on the C series, not enough to spend a ton more, but noticable. I can't seem to remember a whole lot more right now. I did a lot of research before we bought our backhoe and I didn't save anything:Banghead. If I remember more I'll add it here.

Duke
02-16-2007, 09:56 PM
Thanks, mucho-appreciated. From what I read, the "C" is 79HP. I think the B is 72 or 74 HP. Not exactly a lot of power compared to case or NH. Similar to deere in power.

Most 416C's are above my price ceiling ($25,000) since ex-hoe, enclosed ROPS and 4x4 are my minimum needs..

The 416B I have my eye on has 4200 hrs, Ex-hoe, 4x4, enclosed ROPS, A/C, 4 in 1 bucket, 2 backhoe buckets, 2 new CAT batteries and rotating beacon for $25K. Pretty loaded up, but kinda old-school and a little low on power. Also it has CASE controls. I wanted Deere controls.

Most 416C's are over $30K I do like the idea of plastic/fiberglass on cabs. They really seem to rust badly.

Cat420
02-16-2007, 10:12 PM
I will always recommend affordability. That sure sounds like a lot of machine for the money. A newer machine is nice, but not when the payments beat you over the head. I wouldn't let the controls hold you back. One of the places we looked said that they would change the controls to whatever pattern we wanted, so it can't be too expensive to do. 4X4, ext hoe, and 4n1 bucket will do a lot of work for you. Our's doesn't even have A/C, so you'd have me beat:p

Lashlander
02-16-2007, 11:21 PM
Also it has CASE controls. I wanted Deere controls.


Case came with two types of controls. Two sticks and 4 sticks if its an extendahoe. Since I've never heard of a Cat with 4 sticks I'll assume its got 2. Case and John Deere used the same pattern on their hoes. We bought a new 580K and I had to buy a kit to switch it to Cat controls.

tylermckee
02-17-2007, 02:56 AM
I like the old CASE controls with the foot swing.

mflah87
02-18-2007, 05:54 AM
if tis a case 580L then buy it, but if its a 580K don't they had more problems than anything. I had a brand new one back in 92 and the damn thing had all kinds of wiring problems, and the floor rotted no matter how quick i washed it. And when you do wash it, make sure youtake the rubber mat out in the cab.

Duke
02-18-2007, 11:33 AM
I noticed some 416B's are made in England. Are they all made there or are they made in USA. too?

sbrem
02-18-2007, 11:55 AM
Glad to see you made it over here Duke!

Duke
02-18-2007, 12:11 PM
Glad to see you made it over here Duke!

Thanks, Steve!!:drinkup

Steve Frazier
02-18-2007, 12:54 PM
The early Cat TLBs were a conglomeration of components from various manufacturers and assembled by Cat. They had not designed their own components at that point. I'm not sure if that ran into the B series or not, it might be worth checking into. I believe the rear axles and housing were from New Holland, the engine was Perkins, and the transmission came from another manufacturer. Since these components weren't designed to be used as a unit, there were quite a few problems with them.

Duke
02-18-2007, 02:07 PM
You mean like the models built before 1990?

On the B series, the diesel is a Perkins (owned by CAT) the front axle is a ZF. Those are very good names in their respective fields.

My next door neighbor is a CAT heavy equip mechanic. The 416B is actually thought of as a very reliable machine among the service guys. They actually dislike the newer CATs because they are electronic everything with lots of sensors & tons more wiring. More difficult to troubleshoot & repair. :Banghead

Cat420
02-18-2007, 08:35 PM
We have a few electrical gremlins on our 420, like the fan having a mind of its own. Everything electrical is nice when it works, but nothing but trouble when it doesn't.

jimmyjack
02-18-2007, 09:40 PM
Case came with two types of controls. Two sticks and 4 sticks if its an extendahoe. Since I've never heard of a Cat with 4 sticks I'll assume its got 2. Case and John Deere used the same pattern on their hoes. We bought a new 580K and I had to buy a kit to switch it to Cat controls.
the cat machine up to the D series you could get in four stick, had one at the last place i worked ( old timer ran it only felt comfortable with ford pattern). i ran a case 580 a few years ago, i didn't like it. i hated the way the boom locks, u look like a newbie when you don't get it the first time:Banghead

drvit
01-28-2009, 10:49 PM
I just bought CAT 416B 94. When checked, didn't see problem, but when start using it got into a problem with machine shutting down in about 10min. Drained and changed fuel, changed fuel filter, pump looks new. Tried to charge batteries and warm up engine block - same deal - machine starts and then shuts down like somebody turned off key. ANy help would be appreciated.

willie59
01-28-2009, 11:15 PM
Read this thread and see if it fixes your problem. ;)

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=10033

Bearmtnmartin
03-12-2009, 01:30 AM
I had a 94 416B. It was a good bullet proof machine, but there wqs stuff you had to live with: 1-The swing post is cast with no bushings. When it wears, the whole back end is loose as a goose with no cure except buying a new swing post. 2-It is very low on power. 3-It is very heavy. 2 plus 3 = pathetic performance 4-weak hydraulics, especially craning. 5-very tippy when swinging a lot of material to the side. 6-Extenda hoe is weak. I snapped mine in half. $6000.00 mistake If these are minor details to you, then its a good machine.

LonestarCobra
03-12-2009, 12:19 PM
I think a Cat 416B is i good machine overall. Differant brands will excell at one feature, it will be the selling point to one person, but not another. I have worked around most brands of backhoes, and if I did not buy a Cat, I would buy a John Deere. Cat has available any type of controls you want, even the 3 stick with foot swing.

accumac
03-14-2009, 03:21 PM
I just had a 94 416B with 7200 hours on it and not a weld on it. It ran great and always started instantly even on the 12 degree days of this past winter. The worst thing that I found on it and others around that age was the rust in the doors and window frames. I have also seen a lot of the B models with welded backhoe booms, where the lower boom mounting pin mounts the boom to the swing post. That lower boss will break off of the boom, there might have been a campaign from Cat on that problem, the 416B was Cats first machine with the arch boom after the 416 series 2, so they had a few bugs to work out. I have also found a lot of chattering brakes, they still stop the machine but I think you have to pull down the rear differential to repair the brakes if they are chattering. (I have never done the job but heard about it). Perkins are popular engines, I think the Cummins is stronger, more able to put up with abuse or a missed service. The Cat 416B with 8ZK in the prefix of the s/n was made in the USA. The 416B with the prefix of 8SG was made in England. They both run the Cat 3054 engine that I understand to be built to Cat specs. but made by Perkins, (now owned by Cat anyway). The older 416's had the Perkins 4.236. very common engine, run in JCB. Accumac.

LonestarCobra
03-14-2009, 07:10 PM
Accumac, you speak of the 416B brakes. A large percentage of the time, the chattering comes from someone putting the wrong oil in the diff. Cat says to use the multipurpose tractor oil, not just the regular powertrain oil. Cat also sells a conditioner that I have used with some success to relieve the chattering. Those chattering brakes are a bad nusience.:usa

willie59
03-14-2009, 07:37 PM
Accumac, you speak of the 416B brakes. A large percentage of the time, the chattering comes from someone putting the wrong oil in the diff. Cat says to use the multipurpose tractor oil, not just the regular powertrain oil. Cat also sells a conditioner that I have used with some success to relieve the chattering. Those chattering brakes are a bad nusience.:usa


I was fixin' to say the same thing and you went and beat me to it! You can't use just regular old hyd oil in wet brake sumps. You have to use a tractor/trans oil designed for wet brakes, and I have run across a few machines that only the OEM fluid cured the brake chatter problem. ;)

JS580SL
03-15-2009, 05:34 PM
My dad had a 416 and 416B, after owning 2 cats, he'll never buy another one again. Traded the B in for a Case L.

416B Problems I can remember,
Boom cracked were dipper and boom met, right across the pin.
bad rings in the motor
doors rusted away bad
bad trans torque convertor problems
Dump piston cap was crossthreaded
parking brake never lasted
paint faded much faster then other and rusted
extendahoe poor design
no bushings in backhoe, had it line bored to rebush it
problems with the swing pistons

Majority of people I know who buy cat's ended up being unhappy. Id stay with Case and Deere my self.

crdigging
11-02-2012, 10:05 PM
Just bought a 1993 Cat 416b, got a smoking deal, I thought, have a few minor issues to deal with but hoping the deal was good enough to offset some repairs.
Problems
1. Gauges work periodically, seems to be electrical, any guidance?
2. Shuttle shift - when put in F or R has a very long lag time before engaging, once engaged in F it is all business, engaged in R the machine barley moves felt like I was shredding something inside to back out of a spot I couldn't turn around in.
3. Doesn't seem to have as much power as I thought it should, all kinds of digging power, but less than impressed bucket scraping and digging than expected.

Any ideas?