open cabs why?

[wnydirtguy]

just looking at pics and photos and am surprised to see it. Up here in this area you see more enclosed cabs than open. I have never seen an 8 or bigger with an open cab. most push cats I see in the south and out west are open. Is there any good reason besides price to have an open cab?

[stinkycat]

weather

[Fastdirt]

I really like the open cabs for their feel and visibility

[digger242j]

I've never been on any machine with an enclosed cab that offered quite as good of visibility as the same machine with an open cab. Although later models seem to have improved over the earlier models.

(A possible exception would be any excavator larger than a mini, because I don't think I've ever seen one of those that was designed with an open cab, although I've seen a few where the cab kinda became open over the years. )

[lgammon]

i hate replacing windows! and i seem to have a better feel for what is going on around me, but we work on tight sites

[stumpjumper83]

In good weather I prefer an open cab machine. One less step to get in or out, better visibility...

Now when your working in the winter, or when you have 30 degree mornings, or its raining sideways, yeah cab it. One machine that hardly ever gets a cab and needs one the worst is a roller. Something with the vibrate function send the cold right into your bones.

[jmtrackworks]

Down here in South Carolina all my equipment is open cab due to the lack of extreme weather (hot/cold). However, at times in dry conditions the dust can get so bad you can't see or breath while operating the equipment. That's when you actually pray for just a little rain! Other then that, open cabs are just fine around here. It keeps cost down and visibility is better.

[oldseabee]

A/C systems are prone to quit on the hottest day of the year in the South and you can't get a tech for 3 days. They cost a lot to repair and when they quit the fishbowl you are sitting in gets nice and toasty. Cabs are great in the cold climates but not here.

[wnydirtguy]

stumpjumper I agree with you about a cab on a roller. A dirt roller with a cab would be great year round. would not be good on a blacktop roller because you always are running close to stuff.

[rabbit]

when I lived in warmer climates it was nice to have open machines.. Now that I live in the Pacific Northwest near Canada it sure feels good 8 months out of the year to have enclosed and heat.

:usa :)

[John C.]

A few years ago MSHA was making noise about requiring cabs on all machines. Has anyone heard anything new on this?

[Dozerboy]

Better visibility? I have ran a lot of open and closed cab iron and never seen much of a difference in it. I sure can see a lot better when I don't have dust in my face and sweat running in my eyes. I don't care what the weather is I would always take a closed cab. I'm sure they cost more all around, but thats probably offset by increased production.

[2stickbill]

A few years ago MSHA was making noise about requiring cabs on all machines. Has anyone heard anything new on this?
I think MSHA requires inclosed cabs now.I know here the Coal Mines have to do this.Big thing now days is where are you going to find an operator to run open cab machines?

[d6peg]

I'm with dozerboy all the way. A cab for me is the only way to go. This winter we had sub-zero temps and I'm sure this summer we will see 100+.

[DPete]

OROPS is cheaper to buy and no maintenance compared to an EROPS AC, windows, wipers etc. However being in a clean quiet cab is worth the extra cost to me, most operators appreciate cabs and are more productive. Ate my share of dirt over the years, ashes, wind, rain, insulated coveralls, I don't see a reason to anymore, scrapers included.

[CM1995]

OROPS is cheaper to buy and no maintenance compared to an EROPS AC, windows, wipers etc. However being in a clean quiet cab is worth the extra cost to me, most operators appreciate cabs and are more productive. Ate my share of dirt over the years, ashes, wind, rain, insulated coveralls, I don't see a reason to anymore, scrapers included.

That pretty much sums up my philosophy on the subject too DPete.

[bill5362]

I couldn't agree more with DPete, and CM1995

[RonG]

You don't see many guys flipping up their seat anymore when parking the machine for the day:))
I did that for years before I even had a roof over my head.I thought that just being in the shade was as good as it could get.Ron G

[Hendrik]

just looking at pics and photos and am surprised to see it. Up here in this area you see more enclosed cabs than open. I have never seen an 8 or bigger with an open cab. most push cats I see in the south and out west are open. Is there any good reason besides price to have an open cab?
Depends on situation, if you have a dozer that only gets used now and again, like say on a farm, you are better of with open cab due to less cost.

[Rooster75]

I have an open station dozer and a cab back hoe. During Arkansas summer with high humidity A/C is nice but every year there is some problem and A/C quits and it's not always at good time to put down for repair. I have run cab dozers and I have trouble adjusting to visibility issues. However when funds allow it I think I could get used to cab dozer.

[RocksnRoses]

Open cabs are not an option for us on our wheel loaders, we live and operate in very windy conditions, hot and cold. I like Pete, have ate my share of dirt and I would not expect my operators to work in those conditions, like loading a crusher hopper into the wind. I find myself and the same goes for the operators, they are much more productive in a controlled envirionment, rather than having to battle with the elements day in and day out.

Air conditioners are a constant PITA and are a big expense for us. I have not found a factory fitted a/c that will keep a cab cool in our summers. We usually end up fitting more condensors to dissapate the heat. Without the a/c, the heat in the cab is almost unbearable, but we have to keep the doors and windows shut because of the dust.

I don't think there is any OHSA requirement here to have closed cabs, but they do monitor dust levels in quarries, so by having closed cabs, it keeps the operator from inhaling dust. I doubt that there would be any new machines, apart from very small machines, sold without cabs, in Australia today.

On a lighter note, when pushing out trees and stumps, the space in front of the machine suddenly turns black from an exploding swarm of bees, one is very appreciative of a sealed up air conditioned cab.

RnR.

[andoman]

We've seen increased production out of enclosed machines of usually 5 to 10%, so all of our dozers, backhoes, and loaders now have them.

[Dozerboy]

O
Air conditioners are a constant PITA and are a big expense for us. I have not found a factory fitted a/c that will keep a cab cool in our summers. We usually end up fitting more condensors to dissapate the heat.

We have the same problem on some iron you should try tinting the windows. Some tints block out more heat then others too so do a little research. I have hung towels over over the windows I don't need to be looking out of and try and keep that side of the machine facing the sun.

[snocrete]

I'm surprised see so many posts about NOT having cabs. But to each their own. Spring and fall arent so bad w/o a cab, but the summer and winter operations can be brutal.

We have always painted the top of our Bobcats w/erops white.....drops the temp inside the cab about 10-12 degrees in the hot summer. We never need to run the AC or Heat full blast for extended periods of time.

[Hendrik]

We have the same problem on some iron you should try tinting the windows. Some tints block out more heat then others too so do a little research. I have hung towels over over the windows I don't need to be looking out of and try and keep that side of the machine facing the sun.
I have seen machines where they have fitted a false roof with a veranda to keep the sun off the cab, we did that to a MF 760 harvester and it made a big difference.

[Hendrik]

I don't think there is any OHSA requirement here to have closed cabs, but they do monitor dust levels in quarries, so by having closed cabs, it keeps the operator from inhaling dust. I doubt that there would be any new
Whilst there is no requirement for closed cabs you do need to provide dust masks for employees working in dusty conditions and those things are a nuisance.

[lgammon]

We've seen increased production out of enclosed machines of usually 5 to 10%, so all of our dozers, backhoes, and loaders now have them.

how could you increase production when you add in down time to fix the a/c and the 20-30 mins a day cleaning windows. that is my biggest grip.i hate cleaning windows, grease and dust make a mess! you have less viability, more metal and dirty windows.

[Colorado Digger]

i have a trim dozer (case850h) it is bald headed and i like it that way. in the winter i have a heater and tarp system rigged up and it keeps me quite warm any large production dozer should probably have a cab. i will never own one but that is my opinion.
the summer never gets too hot out here, maybe 95f so i can handle it. if i live anywhere further south i would have a cab.
the other deal is i only put 500-1000 hours a year on the machine, so it is not quite worth it.,
cleaning windows does not bother be nor does greasing or cleaning out cabs. we clean every cab on friday and blow out the in cab filters regularly.
even my skid and minis have cab and a/c/heat. but these run over 1500-2000 hrs a year.
regards

[DGODGR]

Interesting opinions here. Here's my 2 pennies. I will not own a dozer without a cab. Of course that will include heat and A/C. If I rent one I would go out of my way to get one with a cab. It's never been an issue though as all the ones I've rented thus far have all had cabs. My main issue is the dust. Dozers seem to do a really good job of kicking up dust (cooling fan). Over the past 25 years I have put enough dirt in my lungs. I don't need anymore. Cab units have never really created a visibility issue before (for me). IMO the only thing you can see anyway is what's rolling off the end of the blade anyway. For me most adjustments are based on feel anyway.

[JD955SC]

Open cabs also have no glass for vandals to smash out which, according to my father, happened very quickly to any piece of equipment on the construction site that had glass.

I'd still like to have equipment with a cab and A/C, though. Would make spending all day on the tractor more comfortable, for sure...until I get to those happy, happy days, I'll have to stick with a decent pair of goggles and a dust mask.

[Deeretime]

Hah i dont think i have ever seen a open cab in alberta in the latst oh say ever!!! My grandfathers d2 even had a aftermarket cab put on it, I did see a feedlot here buy a 644 with a open cab on it and i thought they were stupid for that

[RocksnRoses]

We have the same problem on some iron you should try tinting the windows. Some tints block out more heat then others too so do a little research. I have hung towels over over the windows I don't need to be looking out of and try and keep that side of the machine facing the sun.

You are right, Dozerboy, if we ever have to replace glass, we use tinted glass. I have never been a great fan of stick on tints, some of the old ones went all crappy after a while, but I guess the newer ones are much better. Anything to keep the sun out, towels included, it all makes a big difference.

The problem with a lot of machines, the manufacturers put the condensor in behind the engine bay where it is already hot and it cannot get rid of the heat from the system. On one machine, we have mounted an extra condensor up on the back of the cab, just under the roof line and in the cab, it went from only just doing the job, to very cold. Not only is there more cooling area, but there is also a much larger volume of gas in the system.



I have seen machines where they have fitted a false roof with a veranda to keep the sun off the cab, we did that to a MF 760 harvester and it made a big difference.

That is also a good idea Hendrik, the only problem we have is that we have clearance problems now, especially under trees and a false roof would make it that much higher again.

RnR.

[ttazzman]

Open cabs are not an option for us on our wheel loaders, we live and operate in very windy conditions, hot and cold. I like Pete, have ate my share of dirt and I would not expect my operators to work in those conditions, like loading a crusher hopper into the wind. I find myself and the same goes for the operators, they are much more productive in a controlled envirionment, rather than having to battle with the elements day in and day out.

Air conditioners are a constant PITA and are a big expense for us. I have not found a factory fitted a/c that will keep a cab cool in our summers. We usually end up fitting more condensors to dissapate the heat. Without the a/c, the heat in the cab is almost unbearable, but we have to keep the doors and windows shut because of the dust.

I don't think there is any OHSA requirement here to have closed cabs, but they do monitor dust levels in quarries, so by having closed cabs, it keeps the operator from inhaling dust. I doubt that there would be any new machines, apart from very small machines, sold without cabs, in Australia today.

On a lighter note, when pushing out trees and stumps, the space in front of the machine suddenly turns black from an exploding swarm of bees, one is very appreciative of a sealed up air conditioned cab.

RnR.

I was doing some brushpile moving work at night with the cab door open and got into a nest of Yellowjackets (ground wasps) and they had filled the cab in the dark before i knew it stung me in the eye etc......so they work good IF they are closed up :eek:

[WaterDoc]

That is also a good idea Hendrik, the only problem we have is that we have clearance problems now, especially under trees and a false roof would make it that much higher again.

RnR.


Perhaps some Dynamat (or similar product) installed on the inside of the cab might help you out? It's basically some sort of a dense celulose rubber type product with a foil layer on one side to reflect heat and noise. Dynamat is a brand name and is expensive, but they have a nice website :)

http://www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_introduction.html

[wnydirtguy]

very interesting to see the different views. I do wish they came with factory tint. would be nice. Dozerboy thanks for the tips. never thought of a simple towel to get out of the sun.

[Dozerboy]

You are right, Dozerboy, if we ever have to replace glass, we use tinted glass. I have never been a great fan of stick on tints, some of the old ones went all crappy after a while, but I guess the newer ones are much better.

New stick on tint is way better there are brands you can get here in the states with a lifetime warranty. A nice thing about tint to is if you bust out a window it doesn't go all over.


Who the heck spends 20-30 mins cleaning windows every day? First I would fire the guy that is using so much grease that it falling out on to the windows next would be the window cleaner. Although I bet it does take me 20-30 mins if I do them inside and out on something with a lot of glass that is semi hard to get to like a AG tractor.

[John C.]

I used to absolutely hate enclosed cabs until they started putting tilt mechanisms in them. When you have to do a transmission they could add 6 or 8 hours to R&R times.

The other big issue was the wiring harnesses getting cut up inside the channels. You had to drag the whole harness out and could never get all the ends back in the same place.

Now days when asked by customers what I recommend I ask who is running the machine. If it is a lot of different hired help I tell them get the open units. Lots of different people leave lots of different trash that draws rodents and snakes. If only one operator, get the Cadillac. The other issue is the first time I see someone spitting chew all over the inside of the cab, I generally tell the owner and leave the job until it's cleaned up.

[shooterm]

I find I like open cabs on D6 down for grading and trimming. Even in the winter just turning the blades changing your floor plate to a grate and putting a tarp around the platform height turns it reasonable. Honestly in MN we just dont running dozers that much when the ground freezes. Most of my enclosed cab experience on larger dozers has been with old TD25 where I hated it and D7g 79 model where I liked it in the sand. The new D9 I ran was like was in a different world and honestly took some time to get used to.

[struckzb]

1st post! Just trying to be able to start my own topic since I plan on buying a TD8E in the next couple weeks and will have questions...

But on my input about open cabs:

I have operated a 450G with an open cab and a Hitachi EX-60 that my dad owned. I liked the visibility with the 450, but there is nothing like having a heater/AC/Radio/CB all right there, and to stay dry. Also in the summer it was nice to not have dust in your face all the time since you're so close to the work on the little hoe. I guess it was quieter but the little Nissan engine was pretty quiet anyway. Oh, and myself and my dad both bent the door. Hitachi wanted something like 1500.00 for a new stripped, primed door. So my dad just straightened it, probably the better route.

[qball]

for dozers, i want an open cab. better visibility is very important to me. the heat doesn't bother me all that much, heck, it makes that first cold one at the end of the day taste that much better. as for cold, a turned fan and a tarp can keep you pretty toasty.
i hate running a hoe or track loader through glass. too much glare. and, i find air conditioning usually won't keep up.

[Hjolli]

Well, I´ve never been able to comprehend how it is possible to operate and own an expensive machine like a dozer without an enclosed cab. After all, you wouldn´t want to drive in your car without glass in the windows or sit in your living room or office exposed to the elements.

In Europe enclosed cabs have been standard on most machines for decades. In America I´m sure that dust and debris will fly ever as easily as in the rest of the world...
As for visibility for grading etc. front doors on new cab designs will open up quite well.

[jbernd]

when I operated equipment I prefered open cabs. Better visibility I thought. Now I think the cabs have become much more operator friendly and eaiser to see out of. If I had to vote today I probably would go climate control all the way.

[Hendrik]

Well, I´ve never been able to comprehend how it is possible to operate and own an expensive machine like a dozer without an enclosed cab. After all, you wouldn´t want to drive in your car without glass in the windows or sit in your living room or office exposed to the elements.

Well I guess if I lived in a place called Iceland, I would want a cab with all the goodies and a big big heater, however open cabs do have better visibility, which is a good thing for some jobs and not so important for others.

[Randy88]

My vote goes to cabs, if I have to run the machine I'll trade operator comfort for visibility any day, I spend most of my day in the cold and wind and want something warm to step into to run for a while, sitting on the seat with my hands frozen to the controls isn't my idea of fun, I operate trenchers and some other odd stuff with no option of a fan blowing warm air onto me so a cab is a must in my opinion, don't care for ac, we just take the doors and some of the windows out for extreme summer heat but in colder weather my doors and windows get put back on and the heater gets fired up toasty warm.

[shopteacher 1]

I run a backhoe not a dozer, but I dislike enclosed cabs. If there is no AC they are hot in the summer, and make it harder and slower to get in and out. Visibilty is reduced as well. Even in the winter I prefer an open cab as the windows fog up when plowing snow making it even harder to see!

[Tinkerer]

If you do have to run an open cab in the winter here is tip that will make it a little more bearable in dry material. If you are running a dozer with the fan blowing back at you ,cut a tarp the same size as the radiator. After covering the radiator with it and when the engine warms up, lower the tarp from the top of the radiator. do it just enough to keep the motor up to operating temperature. This will decrease the amount of dirt that is blowing back at you and is a lot easier on the lungs.

[JDOFMEMI]

One of the big reasons for the open cab machines in California and other SouthWestern places was the operators union. They got it written into the union rules that if they were running a cab machine and the AC quit working at anything over I think 80 degrees, they got to go home with a full days pay. They had the right to park a machine and go home with pay due to a broken AC unit, but only if the machine was equipped with a cab. If there was no cab, then the operator was expected to dress for the conditions, be it hot or cold.

The union companies responded by going to all open cab machines to avoid the cost and downtime. I even seen a brand new 992C delivered to the job and less than a week later, the Cat dealer was there removing the cab and putting an open canopy on the new 992.
It was not until Cat refused to warrantee the electronics in the newer machines if they did not have a cab that they started showing back up here in CA.

There are other reasons for the small users of equipment, but that is the main reason in the big dirt spreads out of CA.

[lgammon]

we run a 953, 943,941b,420 hoe,312, and a couple of skid steers on mainly new home sites. i can see if you are pushing 100,000 yards a day then a cab would be fine but we are working with in inches all day every day and you just can not see as well. when you work with this close of tolerances you have to clean the glass. if it is dusty and you get a little mist of rain, you have to clean the glass. we don't work if it is 15 or below, you can't fine grade when the ground is all frozen here, it just comes up in chunks 4 inches thick. and with our clay if it rains we are out to. in the summer....well we act like men and go to work and sweat if we need to. another thing is sound, now i do hate our 941b with the open cab, staring at the loud stack in front of you all day, but you can hear alot about the machine, if it needs grease, if somthing fails. in a cab machine with the radio jamming you are not going to hear the starter hung eating your flywheel up! but in all fairness if you are in a place where you can have a cab and it does not hurt your preformance then by all means enjoy you office job while the rest of us do it like men=-)

[Colorado Digger]

here are a few shot of my wintertime setup. it works really well:tong

[Dozerboy]

we run a 953, 943,941b,420 hoe,312, and a couple of skid steers on mainly new home sites. i can see if you are pushing 100,000 yards a day then a cab would be fine but we are working with in inches all day every day and you just can not see as well. when you work with this close of tolerances you have to clean the glass. if it is dusty and you get a little mist of rain, you have to clean the glass. we don't work if it is 15 or below, you can't fine grade when the ground is all frozen here, it just comes up in chunks 4 inches thick. and with our clay if it rains we are out to. in the summer....well we act like men and go to work and sweat if we need to. another thing is sound, now i do hate our 941b with the open cab, staring at the loud stack in front of you all day, but you can hear alot about the machine, if it needs grease, if somthing fails. in a cab machine with the radio jamming you are not going to hear the starter hung eating your flywheel up! but in all fairness if you are in a place where you can have a cab and it does not hurt your preformance then by all means enjoy you office job while the rest of us do it like men=-)
:notworthy
Ya must be getting old. I nor do any blue top hand I have ever worked with have any trouble cutting finish all day every day with a cab. Nothing wrong with my hearing and I'm sure I hear as well as you can with ear plugs in. Now if you don't wear ear plugs I know I can hear better then you after a few year of that 941. I make sure to keep our groundmen busy enough to sweat for the both of us.;):D

[farmntilen]

cheaper-hired help doesn't just sit in there soaking up the heat or ac.

[WV earth mover]

while were on the cab subject i just bought my first cab dozer a D4CXL hystat its identical to our other dozer other than the cab and i was surprised at how much louder the hydrostatic noise is .Its so bad ear protection is almost a must just for comfort and its never been an issue on the other .When i first started operating it i thought ther had to be a hydro problem but after 10 hrs it pushes great and hydro temp stays cool . The cab can be removed with some work and needs to be anyway due to no ac just heat .We didnt buy it because of the cab so it may come off for good to be more user friendly .Is this normal?

[dust eater]

We have a 6R an 8R and an 8T where I work all with cabs in either of the R series machines I wear ear plugs because of the transmission noise. I think the only reason it seems loud is because the engine and track noise isn't drowning it out. As far as the cab or no cab there are unseasonable days in early spring and late fall that I wish I was "outside". But most days I really appreciate going home clean, not having to worry about what chemicals are in the dust I'm breathing or if today's sunburn is going to be the one that gives me a melanoma

[andoman]

Never had a problem with AC units, and we power wash the windows every night when it comes into the yard. Washing windows is something you just get used to doing if you've ever run a grader, so not a big deal in my book.

[alan cox]

heat boys. heat. easy bake oven mean anything. imagine a cab on a roller on top of 2 lanes of new blak top all day. oh man. that would kill me . i have a 9g with 6 bolts. we put it on in the f all. take it off in the spring. totally different machine . toally. love the fresh air and the smell of the dirt instead of the heat and smoke of the trans coming up through the floor boards.. turn the fan around and its almost like riding a motor cycle.. well a big one that is.

[dpwallace]

open cab is less stuff to replace when you hit a bridge=)

[wvlogger]

I love a open cab. But i like mine to have a cage. No glass. Breaks to much in the sticks. Nothing like the smell of fresh cut dirt.

[jms1387]

Bought a 963c brand new and 3 months later the operators never cleaned ac filter or cab filter etc... showed up and our 250k investment was running with no doors and windows open due to laziness. Our account at local cat was set up so employees could purchase any maintenance item needed and it would be delivered to shop same week. Needless to say that operator earned the privilege of running a 621 open cab non cushion hitch for the rest of the season. Firm believer in earning your way to luxury regardless of your rank. we run our operation in the manner of you treat our equipment with respect and responsibility your luxury of the job will increase. your machines are only as nice as the operators who run them so its somewhat of a catch 22.

[hammerman]

Wow! I prefer a good cab with a/c,radio-cd, CB transceiver (I have got one 12-24v very useful),at the end of your work day, your body is grateful to you.:)

[Payday]

Hah i dont think i have ever seen a open cab in alberta in the latst oh say ever!!! My grandfathers d2 even had a aftermarket cab put on it, I did see a feedlot here buy a 644 with a open cab on it and i thought they were stupid for that

Worked with a fellow this winter in Chipawyen lake Alberta. He has 8k set up for brushing, it worked every day and we had some cold days.

There's lots of open cab dozers in Ab, not sure where you've been hiding at Deertime :tong

[Taylortractornu]

THe old D5B at work has been open cabbed for years. When it went down this time we rented a D5K with AC and a cab. Its nice but I worry about all the sticks and things that flay at it in the day. My gosh that glass is strong a bowed up 1x1 strip 10 feet long let go and flew at the cab like a harpoon. I do like the fact the dust and the such stays off and im not as tired. It was pretty and i was on a wet sandy are and I opened the doors and let the spring air in. Man that little hydrastat makes some noise. I get regular brakes waiting for the compactor to work on the rubbish THe open cab on the D5B is great to stretch out on lol.


In the past we had some side and rear metal and plexi glass cab panels made and that kept us out of te winter wind. I was nice looking and kept you pretty warm with a floor heater. It was a bit aggravating to get in an out of because the opening to get in out of was covered over. We had to squeeze between the rops post and hood. THen the company made a full cab that used our panels and some new aluminum frames. THe proble was it rattled ungodly, Then it let dust in the cab and it would just float there with you. I hated it. It also was heck when it was fall or spring one of the days would be cold and then hot and it was a pain.

THe other thing that I didnt like was the facct the window slide were on the outside whe ndust would get in them you couldnt open it. I had a lift get away from me and it let me slide into a pile and I was trapped as the doors was pinned and the winows woulnt open. I wiggled the machine till I free. I told dad I wasnt putting the cab back on since I was the operator. After a weeks arguing I stayed late and hid alot of the panels lol. I bundle up in the winter and dont worry about the wet weather.

[Deeretime]

:
Worked with a fellow this winter in Chipawyen lake Alberta. He has 8k set up for brushing, it worked every day and we had some cold days.

There's lots of open cab dozers in Ab, not sure where you've been hiding at Deertime :tong

I used to have a D6 open cab when i was 7 , and when i get into my 7R or 850c or even my 289c I think back to those days and am thankful for my cabs.
Either that guy with the 8k is old skool or he cant afford sompthing else.:D

I havent been hideing i have just been keeping up with the technology