PDA

View Full Version : Which excavators are made by the same people??



iceberg210
11-05-2006, 04:51 PM
I've been researching many excavators lately and learned that most are made by just a few manufactures and then relabeled by others. So I was working on putting together a list as a reference and was wondering if anyone could add to my list.

Kobelco (Manufacture) relabled as
Case, New Holland, Link Belt, Kobelco

Hitachi and John Deere

Cat and (JCB)?????? I don't know about this one but I thought there might be some possibility there. If anyone has any more it'd be very helpful. Thanks

Wulf
11-05-2006, 05:06 PM
There is a lot of collabaration between manufacturers but JCB aren't associated with Cat as far as I know.

JCB were working with Japanese manufacturer Sumitomo to build the original JS range but once they were ahead of the game they severed the tie and are now working alone.

I think Sumitomo are working with Linkbelt and are linked through the CNH group.

Someone may have better insight but I think Cat were working with Mitsubishi and now have some association with O&K after their bad experience with building their own mining shovels.

Volvo were working with Ackermann but purchased Samsung and that's what their mainline excavators are based on.

Komatsu work independently but purchased Demag to acquire large shovel technology.

jazak
11-05-2006, 05:28 PM
If CAT & JCB are together, you can't tel because they look nothing alike not to mention that CAT is way better built.

ASV & CAT are together on the tracked skid steers
Bobcat & IR (Ingersoll Rand)

Wulf
11-05-2006, 06:07 PM
If CAT & JCB are together, you can't tel because they look nothing alike not to mention that CAT is way better built.

ASV & CAT are together on the tracked skid steers
Bobcat & IR (Ingersoll Rand)

Interesting... JCB quality and finish looked very impressive on the JS series that were at Conexpo. If they are so much better where are new Cat C series excavators built?

iceberg210
11-05-2006, 06:24 PM
Okay that makes sense. I had heard just in passing that Cat had something to do with JCB but it makes more that they don't. Does anyone have connections with Hyundai that anyone knows about?

Mr HMK
11-05-2006, 06:31 PM
Okay that makes sense. I had heard just in passing that Cat had something to do with JCB but it makes more that they don't. Does anyone have connections with Hyundai that anyone knows about?

They use NAGANO mini excavators.

smalltime
11-05-2006, 06:57 PM
I know Bobcat builds their own, with the exception of the 442. I think Terex builds it for them. The rest, they claim are built in the U.S.

jazak
11-05-2006, 07:36 PM
True forgot about that ^^^^^

Woodstock
11-05-2006, 08:11 PM
I think JCB and New Holland are together on there bigger 4wd backhoes. But not for sure, my machanic said they were.

Cat420
11-05-2006, 08:28 PM
Case and New Holland are now part of CNH Global, so you'll see plenty of twins from them in all types of machines

DigDug
11-05-2006, 08:45 PM
I tried out a Case mini excavator and its made by Kobelco. But i thought the larger machines were made by sumitomo? doug

DigDug
11-05-2006, 08:50 PM
Heres my son trying it out.

dayexco
11-05-2006, 09:09 PM
i was always under the impression that case and linkbelts were sumitomos?

DigDug
11-05-2006, 09:22 PM
ya, thats what i thought. Linkbelt and Case, made by sumitomo. I will checkit out . I am pretty sure the new kobelcos dont look anything like the Case cx's.

iceberg210
11-06-2006, 12:17 AM
Okay I think your right although it doesn't make sense to me why Case wouldn't just use Kobelcos as they are all under the same overall umbrella it looks like Case and Linkbelt are Sumitomo while New Hollands are just Kobelcos with a different coat of paint.

So so far we have

Deere/Hitachi
Case/Link Belt/Sumitomo
Kobelco/New Holland

Any more?

Squizzy246B
11-06-2006, 04:40 AM
Someone may have better insight but I think Cat were working with Mitsubishi and now have some association with O&K after their bad experience with building their own mining shovels.


Cat owns 67% of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. MHI manufacture compact machines and components for the Cat line up.

dirthog
11-06-2006, 08:15 AM
Kobelco, Case and New Holland are the same as far as excavators Kobelco is making them all. The older New Holland's were made with help from O&K at least that the service rep tells our dealership. New Holland and Case do have seperate backhoe lines that are not involved with anyone else.

tylermckee
11-06-2006, 09:24 AM
our yanmar dealer says yanmar is affiliated with deere, im not sure how much, or if its even true.

Tigerotor77W
11-06-2006, 10:31 AM
It looks like there's a lot of confusion out there about this subject -- even dealers don't quite have it strait. (And I certainly don't know the exact progression either, so check my points!)

Older Deere mini-excavators were made by Yanmar, but are currently repainted Hitachis (with other tweaks as well). Case's small, medium, and large machines are NOT Kobelcos, but are rather Sumitomos (with Link-Belt). Kobelco makes the NH line for North America; Fiat produces the NH line for Europe. Case mini-excavators are now made by Kobelco, as are NH's; the old NH line used to be Schaeff (Terex) machines. The old NH larger excavators were Fiat-Allis machines -- I'm not sure if Fiat-Aliis had something going on with O&K, but that appears to be the case in the US, anyhow. The New Holland LB115 was originally a Fiat-Allis unit. Terex's excavators are a mutt of Atlas in Europe and Daewoo in the States. Volvos bought out Samsung and now produce excavators only under the Volvo name.

Steve Frazier
11-06-2006, 11:01 AM
Yanmar supplied Deere with engines for their compact tractors as well.

tylermckee
11-06-2006, 11:03 AM
Yanmar supplied Deere with engines for their compact tractors as well.

Yup, after my i was told yanmar = deere, i didnt really believe it so i did some research and thats all that i could find.

Cat420
11-06-2006, 04:16 PM
New Holland and Case do have seperate backhoe lines that are not involved with anyone else.

I saw a NH backhoe on a trailer about 6 months ago and it was obvious that it was a just Case 580 painted with NH colors. I know they aren't all like that, but it must be an option.

Tigerotor77W
11-06-2006, 04:20 PM
Cat420 -- Case backhoe loaders are not New Hollands or vice versa in the US. It's possible that someone intentionally painted a Case unit to look like an NH, but they're not at all the same. Key differences are an over-center design and bent loader arms on the Case backhoe. New Holland has a straight boom (but not over-center or over/under) and straight loader arms.

d4c24a
11-06-2006, 04:36 PM
Cat420 -- Case backhoe loaders are not New Hollands or vice versa in the US. It's possible that someone intentionally painted a Case unit to look like an NH, but they're not at all the same. Key differences are an over-center design and bent loader arms on the Case backhoe. New Holland has a straight boom (but not over-center or over/under) and straight loader arms.
they are in the uk a co worker has just brought one:thumbsup

Cat420
11-06-2006, 06:15 PM
Cat420 -- Case backhoe loaders are not New Hollands or vice versa in the US. It's possible that someone intentionally painted a Case unit to look like an NH, but they're not at all the same. Key differences are an over-center design and bent loader arms on the Case backhoe. New Holland has a straight boom (but not over-center or over/under) and straight loader arms.

I know they haven't been the same before. It is a night and day difference between Case and NH. I have run both and can say it would be a great improvement for NH to be a repainted Case, but I was as surprised as anyone when I saw the machine on a truck. It looked brand new like it was on the way to a dealer.

It's possible they had it painted, but why would someone care which brand was painted on their machine? Company logo is one thing, but changing brand designations seems like a waste of money. Unless it came from Europe, but again I would question the financial reasoning behind this.

MVFD
11-09-2006, 02:29 AM
There is a lot of collabaration between manufacturers but JCB aren't associated with Cat as far as I know.

JCB were working with Japanese manufacturer Sumitomo to build the original JS range but once they were ahead of the game they severed the tie and are now working alone.

I think Sumitomo are working with Linkbelt and are linked through the CNH group.

Someone may have better insight but I think Cat were working with Mitsubishi and now have some association with O&K after their bad experience with building their own mining shovels.

Volvo were working with Ackermann but purchased Samsung and that's what their mainline excavators are based on.

Komatsu work independently but purchased Demag to acquire large shovel technology.


I do believe that the old Volvo's were based from the old sumsung machines but I dont see any similarities with the new machines. up intill 2001? Our 2003 looks nothing like sumsung. the cabs are fairly square not rounded like the sumsungs use to be and the old volvo's use to be. When I first saw volvo's I was turned away from them because of how they looked. since the new style has come out I have been very attracted to them.


New style
http://www.titanplant.co.nz/images/equipment/EC330B.jpg

Old style
http://www.fradet.fr/images/VOLVO%20EC%20210%20LC%20Grande.jpg

Tigerotor77W
11-09-2006, 11:10 AM
they are in the uk a co worker has just brought one:thumbsup

That's true. Case markets a four-wheel steer backhoe loader in Europe that is simliar if not identical to the NH machine.

MVFD -- Samsung was actually bought out by Volvo and the original line tossed. Therefore, Volvo excavators got some of Samsung's technology, but the Samsung line is gone.

d4c24a
11-10-2006, 12:55 PM
That's true. Case markets a four-wheel steer backhoe loader in Europe that is simliar if not identical to the NH machine.

MVFD -- Samsung was actually bought out by Volvo and the original line tossed. Therefore, Volvo excavators got some of Samsung's technology, but the Samsung line is gone.

the machime he has brought is of conventional design (small front wheels)and is the same as a NH 95 i will try and snap some pictures :thumbsup

lars
11-12-2006, 08:24 PM
I believe Cats are made by MDI Yutani.

radd16
11-14-2006, 07:49 AM
New Holland and Case are running their own backhoes. They are not the same. The skid steers are not the same either. The New Holland box blade tractor is the same as the Case. The mini excavators are kobelcos for both brands. The big excavators are different between Case and New Holland. New Holland is with kobelco making the same excavotor. The dozers are the same for both brands. Also interesting is the fact that the Cat 416D is using the same rearend and transmission as a New Holland backhoe.

NHDealer
12-03-2006, 12:34 AM
I think JCB and New Holland are together on there bigger 4wd backhoes. But not for sure, my machanic said they were.

definatly not!

KSSS
12-16-2006, 03:46 PM
Interesting who is "in bed" with who. One thing I find perplexing is that CNH includes Kobelco and so why doesn't CASE use the Kobelco excavators? They have had great luck with Sumitomo but they are not part of CNH or at least not yet. They are fortunate to be able to pull from two different manufacturers but from a business standpoint it doesn't make alot sense to me. The only thing I can think is to maintain continuity in the product line. After the Proclain mess, maybe they have fielded a quality product now and don't want to jump around to different brands. On a related topic I am surprised that New Holland construction has survived the merger in tact. I really thought that they would try and streamline the product line. They have great market share in skid steers and some in backhoes after that I think it gets kinda light.

Tigerotor77W
12-16-2006, 06:19 PM
Kaiser, I have some opinions to address your points (what else is new!). :)

First, I think Case has kept the Sumitomo identity because it's had it for years. Their recent product (and the Link-Belt product) has been Sumitomo for as long as I can remember, and there's likely something to be said about product commonality from generation to generation that's worth keeping.

As far as the NHC brand surviving, I'm not too surprised here, because NH was never a huge name in earthmoving to begin with. It's mostly an ag brand, which made it weak on its own, but one that got stronger as more companies got pulled into the CNH network. For instance, NH was known for its skid-steers and backhoe loaders. These two product lines survived [nearly] untouched (manufacturing processes and certain components/technologies aside). However, Fiat-Allis wheel loaders and dozers and Kobelco excavators made sense for the company because neither of these two brands were that strong in the States. Therefore, by eliminating those and incorporating them into the NHC colors reinforces the NHC brand by bringing some of the stronger , but not necessarily well-known, products into that family. This essentially gives NHC the ability to mimick Cat up through, say, the quarry-size of machinery: skid-steers through medium wheel loaders; mini-excavators through large (but not mining) excavators. Why not put the NHC skid-steers and backhoe-loaders into the Kobelco family? Probably two reasons: Kobelco dealers are sometimes Case dealers; the NHC brand is known for those two products. While CNH said that it would continue to keep its identities separate, I think the rationale is to play the strengths of each company -- and if a company wasn't having huge luck penetrating a market, lump it in with a company that can use that strength (and its own previous leverage) to give more "oomph."

Who knows. Just my opinion.

farm_boy
12-17-2006, 02:23 AM
Tiger:

I am impressed with your assessment of who makes who in the world of CNH’s product lines. :notworthy I also enjoyed (and agree with) your incite into why CNH continued their relationship even after their acquisition of Kobelco.

If I may I would like to add a few details to your take on Fiat Allis/NH excavators and the NH/Case backhoes.

The NH excavator story starts back in ~1998 when Fiat purchased O&K Berlin which produced their 130 thru 600 size machines. From this point forward the Fiat Allis machines in North America were O&K machines. These proved to be shorted lived as shortly after F/A exited the NA market and rebranded their equipment as New Holland. New Holland continued to market the O&K machines as the “EC” series. The mini’s were indeed Schaeff machines and consisted of the EC15 thru EC45. In 2003 CNH purchased 65% of Kobelco America Inc (KAI) and 35% of Kobelco Asia. With controlling interest in the North American manufacturing and marketing arm of KAI it made sense to combine Kobelco with NH (marketing, dealer network and product). Because the O&K machines were being imported from Germany and the Kobelco machines were being built in GA, the EC line was short lived after the merge of the two companies. This was the birth of the “EH” line of NH excavators. This was about the same time that Terex purchase the compact excavator line from Schaeff. This ended the agreement between Schaeff with CNH and Kobelco started making all of the excavators for NH. Keeping in line with the strategy of a focus on “core customers” the new EH line of excavators only went as big as the EH215.

The story of the rubber tire backhoes is a different one. The first point I’ll make on the NH backhoe is that the LB115 (or B115 as it’s called now) has no relationship to the old Fiat Allis FT110.:nono The FT110 was Fiat Allis’ attempt to enter the utility class of equipment with a rubber tire backhoe. Needless to say it was not a very successful attempt. The product suffered several durability issues, but in spite of this it was a little ahead of its time. The original machines had EH controls on the seat that would spin around with the operator (similar to the JCB of today). The LB115 was developed independent of the FT110 and was sold congruently.

The question of whether or not the Case and NH backhoes are the same machine depends largely on the market. With that being said, even in markets where the machines appear to be very different upon closer examination they will prove to be very similar. In the North American market the machines are different (frames, cabs, loader and backhoe). The NH is built in Imola Italy while the Case goes down the line in Burlington IA. Although they appear to be very different if you look under the bonnet you will find they share the same engine, electrical components, hydraulic system and I think maybe even a transmission.

If you are in Europe you will find a different story. Up until late 2002/early 2003 the Case and NH machines were completely different. At about this time frame the Case Europe folks introduced the “R” series. This machine is virtually identical to the NH machine. There are a few subtle hints of a Case heritage such a forward tilting hood, a cab that has a Case “feeling” (same structure though), and bent loader arms straight from the LB115. The backhoe however is the same straight, non over centering design as NH. This is largely in part to the fact the over center boom does not work very well in Europe because of the dominance of the side shift backhoe.

Checkout the 580 and 590 Super R in this brochure:
http://www.casece.com/files/tbl_s85ProductDescription/ProductionSpecificationPDF470/2283/580-590%20SR_GB.PDF

As far as other CNH products and their similarity between brands I’ll run them down quickly:
• Dozers: The same. The exception to this is the 1150, which Case has an exclusive on.
• Skid Steer Loaders: Different machines between Case and NH, but built in the same plant with the same powertrain (engine, drive pumps, drive motors)
• Graders: The same.
• Wheel Loaders: The new models are the same. 21E=W50TC, 321E=W80TC, 521D=W110, 621D=W130, 721E=W170B, 821E=W190B
• Compaction: Same although short lived for NH
• Articulated Trucks: Same although short lived for NH

There was also mention of Cat using a NH axle in a previous post. This is true; in fact this was the case from the very beginning of the Cat backhoe. They used a NH axle all the way through the D series. The E series brought a new axle made by I believe Dana Corp. In true Cat fashion it is being talked up as a “new Caterpillar” axle.

It is hard to keep everything straight….and this is only one company….CNH!! :dizzy

KSSS
12-17-2006, 01:20 PM
Very impressive Farm Boy. I thought I was fairly savvy on all things CNH. I found the MASTER.:thumbsup

Tigerotor77W
12-17-2006, 04:30 PM
I'll second that, KSSS! I'm glad I wasn't completely out of my mind, though some of my earlier points are wrong, it seems. The whole story of how NH tranisitioned from Fiat-Allis machines to Kobelco still confuses me, so I'm hoping that I won't have to know it down to a T. (No pun intended cf. my next sentence) Terex is hard to keep straight, too, in that it has so many brands that produce similar products that it can get overwhelming. Some magazine should devote a section to the A-Z alliances in the industry (hint, Larry!) :bouncegri

Cat420
12-17-2006, 07:13 PM
Was the NH axle on Cat for the rear axle? Our D Series 420 has a ZF front axle, but I've never checked the rear.

farm_boy
12-17-2006, 09:05 PM
Cat420,

Rear axle only.

DigDug
12-17-2006, 10:02 PM
Farmboy. Thanks for taking the time to tell us how it is. I am a Case fan and like to hear whats up. Thanks again. doug

coopers
12-24-2006, 12:37 AM
That was a nice little history lesson. I'll depend on you now for updates on case! :bouncegri When I looked at the 580 SR model they have in Europe I cringed, not a good look but I guess I'm used to case's look. Oh well, as long as it doesn't make its way over seas. :)

Blake
WA

heymccall
02-19-2007, 07:26 PM
New guy here with 2cents. The Link-Belt excavator is a rebadged Case excavator with an exception under the hood. Link-belts are Isuzu driven whereas Case are still Cummins powered:) .

farm_boy
02-19-2007, 07:40 PM
New guy here with 2cents. The Link-Belt excavator is a rebadged Case excavator with an exception under the hood. Link-belts are Isuzu driven whereas Case are still Cummins powered:) .

Not for long....the new T-III B series Case CX's are now powered by Isuzu!!:eek2 Kinda makes the Case salesman have to talk backwards now since he has been selling the Case engine over the Isuzu in the Link Belts for some time now:falldownlaugh

N.B.CONCRETE
02-19-2007, 09:30 PM
Man this ought to keep the parts men busy .

Nick Drew
02-20-2007, 05:18 PM
Hi All,:)

Here in England you can buy Hyundai Excavators and also a range of Excavators made buy Hyundai but badged by the South African ADT maker Bell, exactly the same machines just with slightly different paint job, not sure how they compare on price??

:notworthy

Nick.

sleded700
02-21-2007, 10:53 AM
CAT/ Mitsibush

CASE/LINKBELT/Sumitomo

Hitachi/Deere/Daewoo

Komatsu

Hyundai

Volvo / Samsung

Kobelco/New Holland

as far as Minis go there are a whol lot more out there that are the same
Most excavators use a similar platform, the same pumps, with different engins

biggixxerjim
02-21-2007, 06:52 PM
I would like to state for the record, and this is not directed at anyone or anything said within this post, that just because something is made in Japan DOES NOT mean that it is the same as the next model built in Japan. It seems everyone that has a vendetta for CAT likes to say.."theyre all made in Japan, all the same machines" This is false and quite ignorant.

Also, to those who believe that Cat or any other "domestic" brand has lost its reliability due to being built in Japan or overseas, get real. If Japanese build their machines anything like their cars, it's only going to help reliability.

Kinda like domestic vs. foreign cars........ Americas got a little ways to go when it comes to competing with Japan. Is anyone wondering why Ford and GM are in such a financial crisis???

hmmmm...........

sleded700
02-21-2007, 09:05 PM
as for the machines being made in America or Japan or anywhere else, all the manufactures have quality assurance programs and guidelines to follow. CAT makes machines all over the world and none are better than others. you will however find that some of the brands like Hyundai, volvo, daewoo, kobelco and a few others do not build their machines to the sames specs as everyone else. They fall in the same weight class, but just use a heavier counterweight to achieve the weight. CAT is still #1 worldwide by offering the biiggest dealer network, the largest parts network and by far the best resale value. For all the contractors out there , stick with CAT and support one of your nations best and largest companies. As for the japanese machines yes they are good but lets keep the dollars at home......

lars
02-21-2007, 10:23 PM
I'll add to this.....

Terex / Doosan Daewoo

JCB

As far as the little guys you got Bobcat, Case, Cat, Coyote, Deere, Daewoo Ditch Witch, Gehl, Hitachi, Hyundai, IHI, JCB, Kobelco, Komatsu, Kubota, Mustang, New Holland, Takeuchi, Terex, Thomas, Vermeer, Volvo, and Yanmar.

In my opinion there are too many guys in the mini business. As companies merge and take or 3rd party manufacturers to create a full line guys are going to be left out. The small companies really start to fall behind when it comes to funding development costs and maintaining a good dealer network. I think the IHI's, Thomas's, and Takeuchi's will have trouble keeping up with Deere, Cat, and the big guys, especially since mini's are more than the novelty they used to be 10 years ago.

As far as New Holland goes, did they even have a big dealer network before the CNH merger? I'm sometimes surprised that CNH tried to push NH construction equipment instead of reverting to an AG brand and going all Case for construction. There are still a lot of costs of keeping the second line - I guess CNH thinks it's worth it. Then again CNH had some troubles merging the two brands.

farm_boy
02-21-2007, 10:56 PM
As far as New Holland goes, did they even have a big dealer network before the CNH merger? I'm sometimes surprised that CNH tried to push NH construction equipment instead of reverting to an AG brand and going all Case for construction.

There was actually quite a large NH Construction dealer network before Fiat bailed Case out (AKA the formation of CNH). The formation of CNH did nothing to the NH dealer network as these were mostly separate owner groups (with a few exceptions.) As far as keeping only Case instead of NH, the NH brand actually had a larger and fuller line of equipment at the time of the merger. New Holland had graders, large dozers, compact excavators, large excavators (45 and 60 tonne), a 6 yd loader, compact loaders, and larger line of telescopic handlers and skid steer loaders. The Case brand has since added almost all of the items mentioned above and many of these have been taken away from the NH brand. :IMO New Holland had a much better product offering before the formation of CNH. If left alone and without the influence of Case management within CNH I believe NH would be a much different company today than what it currently is.

sleded700
02-22-2007, 09:49 AM
hey Farmboy

did you used to work for CASE or N/H ?

farm_boy
02-22-2007, 10:12 AM
I guess you could say that I worked closely with the CNH organization for a while. I'll leave it at that.:cool2

iceberg210
01-22-2008, 06:20 PM
CAT/ Mitsibush

Hitachi/Deere/Daewoo

Komatsu

Hyundai

Volvo / Samsung

Kobelco/New Holland


Turns out that Daewoo has nothing to do with Deere or Hitachi.

Also add to the list Daewoo/Terex, and Case/Link Belt/Sumitomo. And I think that's about it. Any others?

Another question. More matter of opinion really, if International had survived do you think that it would be producing its own excavators or signing on with some other manufacture, and if so whom?

My bet would be that they would have tried to struggle against the cheaper better Asian imported excavators in the 80's and then hooked up with one of the larger ones like Komatsu, or Kobelco.

Were the last of the Dresser excavators made by someone else?

JCBgm
01-22-2008, 07:14 PM
A bit late to the party, but JCB is standalone, working from their previous joint venture with Sumitomo.

Although they do source the cab from the same OEM as CAT:D

Worth noting...Buckets are compatible between JCB, Case, and Link-Belt.

Burnout
01-22-2008, 07:44 PM
Now this has been a thread worth reading. I have wondered though for some time, why is there such a large difference between the Case and Link Belt excavators? The company I work for has a 2006 LB 210LX which is an amazing little machine. It has earned the nickname of the Ninja compared to our 320C/D's. But when they bought a Case 210 this year I jumped in it for a few hours and it seemed like a complete dog compared to the Link Belt. With the WBM Couplers we have on the machines we were able to switch out the ditching bucket for a 330BL onto the link belt and the little machine handled it nicely... except for the whole balance thing. The Case on the other hand had enough of a time trying to get its 36" digging bucket through the ground much less a larger one.

Just wondering what the major difference would be between the 2 series of machines. I knwo the engines are different, but that should account for so much of a difference.

skata
01-23-2008, 12:27 AM
A bit late to the party, but JCB is standalone, working from their previous joint venture with Sumitomo.

Although they do source the cab from the same OEM as CAT:D

Worth noting...Buckets are compatible between JCB, Case, and Link-Belt.

but jcb still uses a few japanese components, correct? like motor, wiring/electronics, drive motors, etc?

pwrstroke6john
01-23-2008, 01:51 AM
I believe all the JCBs have used the perkins diesels, at least the backhoes did, but now they are coming out with there own 4 cylinder diesel.Caterpillar purchased perkins around 2002 i believe.

Sam sung
01-23-2008, 06:23 PM
Hi everone, I have a 1992 Samsung SE130 LC and I am looking for a Factory Service Manual. I ordered one from Volvo but it was a reprint and completely useless all black and white no color for wiring diagrams etc. which I am mostly interested in,any help would be appreciated. Thanks Dennis

JCBgm
01-23-2008, 07:29 PM
but jcb still uses a few japanese components, correct? like motor, wiring/electronics, drive motors, etc?

JCB's JS excavators are still based on the original Sumitomo design. Components are mostly japanese with global influence.

For example:
Hydraulics components are from Kawasaki, Toshiba, and Kayaba. These are the world's leading suppliers of excavator hydraulic components

Isuzu Engines (same as Link-belt, Hitachi, Kobelco, and some Case)

Burco Undercarriage

I can't recall the cab OEM. They're out of Italy and are the same supplier as CAT

Very few JS components are UK sourced. JCB does build their own cylinders and frames/body work. OE buckets are from Esco or CP.

Countryboy
01-23-2008, 10:32 PM
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Sam sung! :drinkup

cat300
01-24-2008, 02:50 AM
What about takehuchi??? and Yanmar..... i know there smaller sized machines but is takehuci by its self????

PETE379
01-24-2008, 07:48 AM
Sam Sung, you can try looking on ebay from time to time, they always have a lot of cat manuals up for bid. I know theres a lot more of them around but maybe you'll get lucky.

mascas
01-24-2008, 01:44 PM
I dont know for sure but I have worked on alot of Liebhersrs and the engines in them have deer logos on some of the pieces.

iceberg210
01-24-2008, 01:48 PM
Deere and Lieber have been working together as of late. For example at least some of the Deere track loaders are really Liebers with a new coat of paint, and the same goes for the largest dozer they sell I believe. Takeuchi and Yanmar I think at one time or another were connected. We've got a Takeuchi with a Yanmar engine that looks exactly like a Yanmar I saw the other day in Montana (ok this summer but same thing). Anyway....

MKTEF
01-24-2008, 02:43 PM
I heard Komatsu and JCB's excavators are buildt on the same factory in England.:beatsme (realy doubt that, but a salesman said so)
Sharing some common components?

Jcb and Sumitomo is the same, jcb prodused the Sumitomo for the European marked.
That deal stranded, and jcb started production on the basis of the Sumitomo. They prodused a copy with jcb marks on.:)
Sumitomo didn't say anything cause they couldn't prove copy of the drawings.
Later jcb has developed it into their own brand.
Making some changes to it, like using their own engines and stuff.:)

Spend some time in a 210 and a whelled 175 Jcb, and they are good machines.:)

drewtam
01-24-2008, 08:55 PM
Let me clarify some incorrect info on this thread about Cat and Mitsubishi.

Cat does not own any portion of Mitsubishi (and vice versa). Many years ago Cat and MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) became involved with each other. At the time, Japan was a closed country. American companies could only get in the Japanese market if they created joint ventures with Japanese companies. So Cat partnered with MHI and has created various joint ventures (JV) in the following years. Two of the more important ones are Mitsubishi Caterpillar Forklift America (MCFA) and Shin Caterpillar Mitsubishi (SCM). Both started off as 50/50 JVs. Nowadays, MCFA majority ownership is by MHI.

SCM is important because that is the JV that created Cats introduction into the excavator business. And since then has been a critical part in Cats growth in the excavator business. It was recently announced, in business news, that Cat is intending to buy majority interest in SCM.
Cat and SCM are highly integrated with each other at the engineering and management level.
Beside the excavator business, SCM builds Cat designed machines and engines; always working together in a very strong relationship.

MHI is a very large company and has its own complicated relationships as a part of the Mitsubishi keiretsu. MHI is a separate and autonomous company from all the other Mitsubishi's (eg. "M" Motor Company, "M" Fuso Truck and Bus, "M" Electronics, "M" Bank, etc), but they are all deeply involved with each other as members in the keiretsu. The relationship and culture is so complicated that I find it nearly impossible to keep it straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi

68ATractor&Box
01-26-2008, 02:20 PM
I heard Komatsu and JCB's excavators are buildt on the same factory in England.:beatsme (realy doubt that, but a salesman said so)
Sharing some common components?

Jcb and Sumitomo is the same, jcb prodused the Sumitomo for the European marked.
That deal stranded, and jcb started production on the basis of the Sumitomo. They prodused a copy with jcb marks on.:)
Sumitomo didn't say anything cause they couldn't prove copy of the drawings.
Later jcb has developed it into their own brand.
Making some changes to it, like using their own engines and stuff.:)

Spend some time in a 210 and a whelled 175 Jcb, and they are good machines.:)

Your salesman is incorrect JCBs are not built on Komatsus factory in the UK.

John C.
01-26-2008, 04:04 PM
A very interesting thread indeed.

I have worked for most all of the major dealers in my area and might be able to put in a couple of points I've picked up over the years.

Case bought either the rights or the entire line of Sumitomo excavators some years ago. That also meant they got Link-Belt's excavator line at the same time. They did not get the Link-Belt crane line and I believe Link-Belt crane is one of the only independant owned crane lines left. The dealer networks were not changed in my area I believe because Link-Belt has such a strong presence in the logging industry. I know for a fact the Case dealers tried to market Case log loaders and failed miserably even though it was the same product with different paint. Dealer support in my opinion was the biggest problem. In this area Link-Belt is still considered a better machine than a Case. Go figure.

Link-Belt has now aligned with someone else to become LBX or Link-Belt Construction. I have seen some artic trucks in the area but have heard nothing making them any different than the rest. I have seen literature with loaders but have yet to see one.

International was bought out by Dresser Corporation in the late eighties. Dresser is a conglomerate that was at that time into heavy mining and drilling. They joint partnered with Komatsu for a year or so and then Komatsu bought out the International line complete. International marketed a couple of excavators, anyone remember Yumbo. Enough said about that. International was a very good competitor to Cat for years on dozers and many of their designs are still in production today. In my opinion the TD7,8,9 small dozers were and still are competitive with anything made today.

Kobelco was tied up somehow with MDI Yutani for years. Dealers had both brands built into logging machines. It was my impression at the time that Kobelco, Mitsubishi and Kato had common links. I know Mitsubishi and Kobelco severed any ties when Cat joint partnered with Mitsubishi on excavators. Cat built its own excavators, the 200 series, since the sixties. Cat was caught completely flat footed when Hitachi and Komatsu hit our market.

I don't know all the history of the CNH deal but I remember it happened quick. The Case line was stagnant for years and in real danger of going the way of International. Case was owned by Tenneco corporation for years. That was the time of the Case, Poclain and Drott relationships. Case bought themselves out of Tenneco in the eighties. The only real innovation I'd seen from them during that time period was the joint partnership with Cummins in the development of the B series engine. That is the engine that ended up in the Dodge pickups and a large portion of construction equipment.

If I remember right International sold their Ag lines to Case a little while after they sold the construction lines to Dresser. I don't remember the full story but Agco also became big at that time and it seemed that manufacturers were changing hands like a deck of playing cards being shuffled. It seemed to me the linkage between Case and New Holland was the end result of all the shuffling of Ag equipment and the Construction equipment just got drug into it. If I remember right the Sumitomo deal happened before the New Holland deal so Case got caught handling two line. In our area we have two seperate dealers for those lines.

Komatsu as far as I can tell has had many joint partnerships over the years but still completely designs and builds it own equipment. Komatsu joint partnered with Cummins to built, I think, 743 series and 855 series engines in Japan. Early Komatsu dozers had those motors for power. They also joint partnered with Cummins to build the K series.

Terex has been nothing but a giant holding company for years. They have bought and sold manufacturers as they make of lose money on them. I don't believe they have actually designed and built a piece of equipment in fifty years. The closest link to machines for them is the decal they put on someone elses machinery.

Statements were made as to manufacturers in Japan and their quality. I have come to the opinion that all the equipment made in Japan is done so under government supervision. I do not work on Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Komatsu and Kobelco. To me they are all Japan Inc.

I've been told they are all financed by the Sumitomo Bank. You might have heard the name earlier in this post.

drag1line
02-07-2008, 02:28 PM
Great Job Farm Boy, on explaination of CNH..but can I change one small part and muddy the water more.
CNH or Fiat did not buy ALL of O&K, but only the 50 ton and down excavators and wheel loaders. TEREX bought the larger 60 ton and up excavators...which now they are negotiating with Cat for some type of deal.
Kobelco makes the mini's for NH, Kobelco and Case, but Case larger machines are Sumitomo...for now...Case just announced some type of joint venture with Hyundai...supposedly for one large wheel loader???? Can't wait to see how that comes out.
Some case models in South America are Kobelco's in larger sizes..example the 20 ton
Case design and NH Dozers are made at the Kobelco factory in Calhoun Georgia. The larger Case dozers are Fiat.
The MDI Yutani machine was OEM brand of Kobelco, but made by Kobelco and distributed by the old Mitsubishi dealers, as they lost the Mitsubishi excavator line when Cat bought into deeper the Shin Caterpillar Mitsubishi organization and took over the Akashi Factory, which made the Mitsubishi Excavator. Most of these dealers became Kobelco later. Note, In Japan, the Mitsubishi Motor Graders are marketed as Cat out of Sagamihara.
LBX which calls the excavator Link Belt in the US, but Sumitomo in Japan, is partly owned by Case in the US ONLY. Note, in Europe, the NH 80 ton machine is or was a Sumitomo, but now Kobelco produces a much better machine so I guess that will change????
Furukawa was, not sure now, involved with Mitsubishi Corporation early and then John Deere.
In Japan, Kobelco also produced, not sure now EXCAVATORS for Kawasaki,,,who also supplied wheel loaders to Kobelco,,but not now.
Sumitomo also produced another brand of excavator that I have seen as gray market in the Northwest area..cannot remember the name.
Massey Fergesson changed hands and became Fermac and produced Kobelco mini's under license in the EU, sold Loader Backhoes to Kobelco, was bought by Case, who had to sell the factory when Fiat got involved and is now owned by Terex.
Case has had so many excavator manufacturers, that I cannot remember them all. Drott, Case, Proclain, Sumitomo, LBX, Kobelco, ???
Just to add...Whew!! The European Yumbo excavator was the beginnings of Mitsubishi excavators,,who are now Cat,
Bucyrus Erie had a joint venture with Komatsu to design their early machines. They can still be seen in Japan as Komatsu/Bucyrus. Yutani Heavy Industries (Back Ground Poclain) was the company purchased by Kobe steel to expand their line, which was based upon Cat.
Hyundai came from a joint Venture with Kobelco also.
JSW when they stopped producing excavators, were OEM branded by IHI.
My Two Cents

PETE379
02-07-2008, 03:56 PM
Dragline, I know Kawasaki makes hydraulic pumps for excavators, but didnt know they ever produced one. What years would that have been?

drag1line
02-07-2008, 04:31 PM
Kawasaki is a Huge company of which the hydraulic components and gearboxes are just a part. http://www.khi.co.jp/index_e.html
Consider the motor cycles for example, ships, steel, and Wheel Loaders. http://www.kawasakiloaders.com/
Like most foreign companies, they are very vertically intergrated than allowed here and Mitsubishi MUCH MORE!
To answer your question more completely, THEY themselves did not produce an excavator...Probably to not interfer with their HUGE customer base who produce and use Kawasaki Hydrualic components in almost all modern excavators in some form or other.
Kobelco produced the Kawasaki Excavators for the Heavy Equipment side of Kawasaki in Japan and yes, a few have migrated to North America.
My Two Cents

PETE379
02-07-2008, 04:37 PM
I realize who they are and what they make, I know they make Wheel loaders, I didnt know them to make excavators like you mentioned.

drag1line
02-07-2008, 04:41 PM
You know, when this post runs it's course...Wonder if someone will take the time to make a spread sheet on all this? Naw...would be out of date in a week!! Ha Ha

lumber61
02-28-2008, 02:48 AM
If you want some info on the history of the Construction Equipment I recommend the book "Yellow Steel: The Story of the Earthmoving Equipment Industry" by William R. Haycraft. A easy read and very interesting. In my opinion all the Equipment Companies are in bed together. They are a very powerful industry, that is never discussed in terms of influence or pricing. This is one of the only industries everybody is selling the same product so marketing brand loyalty is the most important factor, especially in the excavator market. All 20ton excavators will dig the exact same hole in about the same time, but people will pay more for name on the machine then the machine. Very smart marketing!

Countryboy
02-28-2008, 02:57 AM
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums lumber61! :drinkup

CascadeScaper
02-28-2008, 04:29 AM
Link-Belt has now aligned with someone else to become LBX or Link-Belt Construction. I have seen some artic trucks in the area but have heard nothing making them any different than the rest. I have seen literature with loaders but have yet to see one.



I've seen a Linkbelt loader here in WA, it was a sight indeed. I drove by it every day for a couple weeks as crews were rebuilding a storm water retention system alongside my route to work. I didn't think Link Belt loaders existed until I saw that one, I'm sure it'll be the last one I see for quite some time.

coopers
02-28-2008, 04:32 AM
I've seen a Linkbelt loader here in WA, it was a sight indeed. I drove by it every day for a couple weeks as crews were rebuilding a storm water retention system alongside my route to work. I didn't think Link Belt loaders existed until I saw that one, I'm sure it'll be the last one I see for quite some time.

I saw two large Link Belts in Kent on my way to Federal Way. :cool:

coopers
02-28-2008, 04:36 AM
I saw two large Link Belts in Kent on my way to Federal Way. :cool:

Excavators that is.

drag1line
02-28-2008, 05:11 PM
"CascadeScaper" the Link Belt Loaders that you saw...Deep Breath..Were made by O&K out of Kissing Germany and distributed by Link Belt after CNH bought O&K construction division. Years ago O&K was sold in the US as Trojen, and also as Kobelco before CNH got involved, Now CNH has shut down the over 100 Year Old Company.
The O&K mining division was sold to Terex...who is now discussing selling it to Cat...per the rumor mill.

farm_boy
02-28-2008, 08:54 PM
dragline....you are so smart. when I grow up I want to be just like you!!

smart that is....

drag1line
02-28-2008, 09:19 PM
Farm Boy.
I am humbled in your presence!!
Just too much gray hair...or lack there of!
Good Luck at Conexpo!

Tigerotor77W
02-28-2008, 11:43 PM
"CascadeScaper" the Link Belt Loaders that you saw...Deep Breath..Were made by O&K

I used to have O&K literature for the L35 and L45 loaders... recycled them. :(

Tribalfarmer
03-03-2008, 12:49 AM
Someone told me that my ex60 is the same as a cat e70b. True or false.
I'm having trouble finding the book for the ex60.

Tribalfarmer
03-03-2008, 01:07 AM
When I just bought the Hitahi E60urg thair was this big Cat right next to it and someone came by and said that his Hitahi was the same right down to the tin.

drag1line
03-03-2008, 10:08 AM
Nope, the Hitachi is a Deere or Hitachi Makes for Deere is correct. Cat is a Mitsubishi or part of Shin Caterpillar Mitsubishi..not to be confused with Mitsubishi Caterpillar Forklift America. Is ANY ONE keeping score???.........Never mind...would be out of date tomorrow.

Tri-Star
03-03-2008, 11:19 AM
Does anyone know if Terex made the IR ZX125, and if so has anyone ran one? Does anyone have any info on the Terex mid size? Just wondering, I was thinking of buying the IR ZX125 but IR doesnt have any website for them anymore, guess because they arent in production. Any info would be very helpful!!!!!
Thanks,
Tri-Star

drag1line
03-04-2008, 01:59 PM
Ok,,got your score card out?
The Ingersoll Rand 12.5 ton and 7 ton were made by the German company Schaff...Who made the mini excavators for New Holland until Kobelco came in the picture and makes the mini's for Case and New Holland...and yes, Kobelco.
Deep breath...Ingersol Rand is now owned, at least the big part, by Volvo..and Schaff is now owned by Terex..Who sells Doosan Excavators and Wheel loaders.
Have a good day.

drag1line
03-04-2008, 03:06 PM
Opps..forgot..Schaff from above also makes or made the 442 for Bobcat.

Tri-Star
03-04-2008, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the info drag1line! Does anyone have any Idea where you would get parts IR/Volvo/Terex? Has anyone been on one? And are they reliable?

Bellboy
07-30-2008, 02:00 PM
Hi All,:)

Here in England you can buy Hyundai Excavators and also a range of Excavators made buy Hyundai but badged by the South African ADT maker Bell, exactly the same machines just with slightly different paint job, not sure how they compare on price??

:notworthy

Nick.

As far as I know, Kato makes Bell excavators, but I don't know anything of Hyundai and Bell sleeping in the same bed. I will try to find out though.

My Cat dealer told me as we were looking at a 385D that Cat has or is going to buy Buycyrus to start making mining shovels and the like... anyone else heard of this?

Dogger
07-30-2008, 04:00 PM
All Case Mini excavators under 5 ton are made by Kobelco. Anythink over is made by Sumitomo

drag1line
07-30-2008, 04:23 PM
Bellboy. As for Cat buying Bucyrus..Uh...Might want to watch TEREX mining division HARD!!!

QUANIE
07-30-2008, 07:50 PM
Have been reading the posts and found alot of insite, but will like to know if anyone knows who cat started its backhoe line from ?

ror76a
07-30-2008, 08:36 PM
Cat developed it's own excavator line, orginaly. The 200 series was all Cat, started with the 225 in 1972 I think. The E and 300 series came from the Cat-Mitsubushi joint venture.

QUANIE
07-30-2008, 08:58 PM
Its the backhoe, not the excavator model.

3964B
07-30-2008, 09:08 PM
1978 international = yumbo warner-swassy= massy ferg,? and so on. some good some bad.

Countryboy
07-30-2008, 09:56 PM
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums 3964B! :drinkup

texascadillac42
07-30-2008, 11:31 PM
Not sure if its been said, but Ditch Witch Excavators are repainted Komatsu machines.

Bellboy
07-31-2008, 11:06 AM
Bellboy. As for Cat buying Bucyrus..Uh...Might want to watch TEREX mining division HARD!!!

Didn't they get O&K????

drag1line
07-31-2008, 11:13 AM
Terex bought O&K mining or from 160,000# and up and CNH took the construction side,,which they closed.

Bellboy
07-31-2008, 01:03 PM
Interesting. Case and Terex in this country are run by the same people.

Now what about Doosan / Bobcat.:stirthepot

drag1line
07-31-2008, 02:00 PM
Boy are you going to make someone mad..Not me.
Case currently is owned by the Italians from Fiat.
Terex is a separate company.
You really need a score card to keep all this in mind and it changes almost every week.
Example..Bobcat and Doosan...Did not see that coming!

sanyguy
08-12-2008, 02:27 AM
theres a excavator called sany there buying the same parts were Komatsu buys from and there prices are way more competive in the market for large excavtors 200/420 look in to them

Paystar
08-14-2008, 09:37 AM
I'm thought I read somewhere a while back that Terex excavators (not the big O&K mining shovels) were Samsungs? Or was it their loaders.:confused:

drag1line
08-14-2008, 10:16 AM
Terex, large are Daewoo..oh..sorry...now Doosan...small are Schaff, which they own...Samsung are Volvo, who own them.
Any one got a cheat sheet on all this?

talus
08-14-2008, 11:05 PM
If you look at case,nh,kobelco and yanmar mini ex they look identical other than paint. Are they made by kobelco or yanmar? They seem to spec out a little different also. Why is this? :beatsme

drag1line
08-15-2008, 08:40 AM
Yanmar is a separate company and design, but you are correct that Kobelco makes the Mini's for Case, NH and Kobelco.

farm_boy
08-15-2008, 09:17 AM
What about all those Chinese excavators?? Are they all the same copy of old Cat technology or are they actually using designs of their own?

drag1line
08-16-2008, 08:14 AM
No, they do not copy Cat, but like any excavator design engineering department, you always look at your competition. Cat excavators are not the most technically advanced machine or the best spec's. The current Cat is made and designed by their joint venture company Shin Caterpillar Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi excavator comes from Yumbo, Kobelco comes from Poclain, Komatsu is from Bucyrus Erie, Hyundai is from Kobelco and so on. So you will see influences of many earlier machines if you look. On the loader side, LiuGong was actually the OEM manufacturer for Cat for around 8 years, but not the excavator.
Most Chinese excavators use Kawasaki, Hi Dash, Kayaba, and similar components, same as most of the other machines in the world. Most have Cummins engines that are made in the US for emmission reasons. Note, the local Chinese specification will use a local engine similar to Wei Chai.
The cost savings is in the less expensive steel and labor to produce them.
Just keeps getting more complex to figure out who is in bed with whom.

AtlasRob
08-24-2008, 01:26 PM
Terex, large are Daewoo..oh..sorry...now Doosan...small are Schaff, which they own...Samsung are Volvo, who own them.
Any one got a cheat sheet on all this?

I stand to be corrected BUT I think you are mixing DEMAG up with DOOSAN

Big Terex mining exc I believe are original Demag.

drag1line
08-24-2008, 08:13 PM
Terex buys their excavators and wheel loaders below 40 ton from Doosan or formarly Daewoo. The mining division of Terex OWNS the mining division of what was O&K above 60 ton. 100% positive. The 40 ton and down part of O&K and the construction machinery division was bought by Fiat and now closed down.
Good Point on Demag..forgot about them...They are aligned in some fasion with Komatsu.

stretch
08-24-2008, 08:30 PM
Terex buys their excavators and wheel loaders below 40 ton from Doosan or formarly Daewoo. The mining division of Terex OWNS the mining division of what was O&K above 60 ton. 100% positive. The 40 ton and down part of O&K and the construction machinery division was bought by Fiat and now closed down.
Good Point on Demag..forgot about them...They are aligned in some fasion with Komatsu.

Komatsu bought out the mining equipment part of Demag.

AtlasRob
08-25-2008, 07:43 AM
Komatsu bought out the mining equipment part of Demag.

Yes you are quite right :notworthy I had my head stuck up my ......... well you know, read so much in this thread the head was still spinning and forgot to double declutch before engaging the keyboard :D

AtlasRob
08-25-2008, 07:50 AM
Terex buys their excavators and wheel loaders below 40 ton from Doosan or formarly Daewoo. The mining division of Terex OWNS the mining division of what was O&K above 60 ton. 100% positive. .

Maybe in the States but Terex TC excavators machines ( Terex Crawler) in Europe above 12t ( I believe ) are a new build from the drawing board up as the original Atlas tracked machines that Terex took over were so outdated it was decided to start again from scratch. The smaller machines I believe are reborn Shaeff.

skip
08-27-2008, 08:47 PM
cat is made by mitsubishi

OneToughAnimal
08-28-2008, 04:05 AM
I've been researching many excavators lately and learned that most are made by just a few manufactures and then relabeled by others.

Hitachi and John Deere

I always thought that Komatsu made Deere excavators/payloaders considering their mechanical resemblence...?
maybe im wrong...

OneToughAnimal
08-28-2008, 04:17 AM
You really need a score card to keep all this in mind and it changes almost every week.
Example..Bobcat and Doosan...Did not see that coming!

I agree, Doosan "Daewoo" Bobcat... how f'd up is that??? Goodbye skidloader innovation time for a blast of mini-excavators:eek:. awesome point tho its not even worth trying to be up to speed with all of it... what a headache:Pointhead

Elbonk
12-26-2008, 09:26 PM
When you guys sort all this out it would make a a great FACT sheet if you do that kind of stuff on here. Thanks for all the info.. Good spot for a wannabe like me to read up!

Reuben
12-26-2008, 11:15 PM
Kobelco, Case and New Holland are the same as far as excavators Kobelco is making them all. The older New Holland's were made with help from O&K at least that the service rep tells our dealership. New Holland and Case do have seperate backhoe lines that are not involved with anyone else.

case and linkbelt are sumitomas.

Reuben
12-26-2008, 11:20 PM
All Case Mini excavators under 5 ton are made by Kobelco. Anythink over is made by Sumitomo

Well this one is correct

darinray
12-27-2008, 09:17 AM
dang now I have a headache. :) Not to worry though I will forget everything i read in a couple hours. :) Shoot I already forgot as i was typing this. :)

Darin

stock
12-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Hokuetsu also make mini for Hitachi and retail them ,themselves as airmans ax series
Bell and Hyundai excavators are the same and made by Hyundai .
Hyundai are making a shovel for John Deere in europe
The new cat tracked skidloader has tracks made byASV who are owner by Terex.

cannonman
12-27-2008, 10:16 PM
some eye opening info

Taylortractornu
12-27-2008, 11:28 PM
I think Terex also bought out ATLAS for there excavator I know at one time they had the worlds largest wheel excavator.

redline
12-28-2008, 02:27 AM
can anyone tell me anything about a SHANDONG P380???

is a spitting image of komatsu

Kfarmer
12-29-2008, 07:41 PM
Clearly a lot of you guys really know the manufacturing history. Are particular manufactures that are likely consolidation candidates/victims during this economic downturn?

roddyo
12-29-2008, 09:55 PM
I think Terex also bought out ATLAS for there excavator I know at one time they had the worlds largest wheel excavator.

I think you are right about Terex buying out Atlas. I bought a couple of New/Old Stock Atlas Demolition Grapples from Terex a few months ago. The Atlas's that I got were made in Germany, I think the new Terex/Atlas Demolition Grapple is made in South Haven Mississippi. Which one would you rather have?:rolleyes:

I think Terex also bought out Fuchs. A lot of people think they are THE machine for scrap handling, Especially in Europe.

It looks like Terex is doing in the Construction Market what AGCO has done it the AG market the last 10 years or so. Buying everything under the sun and making a super company with not a lot of growth from the original line. AGCO came out publicly around last year and stated their growing was over with for a while. Who knows why.:beatsme

stock
12-30-2008, 03:53 AM
Found this but who made her??


30501

Alfapillar
12-30-2008, 06:10 AM
maybe a Fiat-Hitachi :beatsme

redline
12-30-2008, 07:16 AM
mmmmm u have to love it when people put random stickers on a new machine,

the digger i have been running is a LISHIDE SC130.7 (made by shandong) (CHINA)

roddyo
12-30-2008, 08:40 AM
Found this but who made her??


30501

Just by looking at the Front End Loader, Rear Boom, Hood, Rear Fenders, ETC, it looks like a Ford-New Holland to me. One thing about it, I've been wrong before.:usa

Steve Frazier
12-30-2008, 10:04 AM
That's my guess too roddyo. My buddy has a 655 and this looks just like it in a different color and Europeanized. The slope of the engine cover has New Holland lines too, along with the glass.

stock
12-30-2008, 11:16 AM
30519

30521

30523

A Fiat hitachi 100.3 built by Ford/ new holland

Speedpup
01-01-2009, 10:29 PM
I would like to state for the record, and this is not directed at anyone or anything said within this post, that just because something is made in Japan DOES NOT mean that it is the same as the next model built in Japan. It seems everyone that has a vendetta for CAT likes to say.."theyre all made in Japan, all the same machines" This is false and quite ignorant.

Also, to those who believe that Cat or any other "domestic" brand has lost its reliability due to being built in Japan or overseas, get real. If Japanese build their machines anything like their cars, it's only going to help reliability.

Kinda like domestic vs. foreign cars........ Americas got a little ways to go when it comes to competing with Japan. Is anyone wondering why Ford and GM are in such a financial crisis???

hmmmm...........

gee what country with auto manufacturing lets other countries dump cars in their home market like we do in the USA? Japan, Korea, China, Italy, and many European countries are just about perfect about blocking foreign car sales in their country for how many years?

I think they have closed all gaps with foreign cars now it is just perception.

Taylortractornu
01-02-2009, 01:33 AM
A friend of mine works for a Grey market machine dealership I bought my Komatsu hoe there and from time to time they have an oddball machine. One was a small crawler loader with a backhoe attachment. It had a Mitsubishi engine in the back, I think a 3 cylinder, and looks almost like a 943 0r similar rear engined loader. the toothed bucket was round backed like a tracloader bucket but only the size of a small skidsteer bucket. The tracks were a little over a foot high. and the machine was only wide as a skidsteer. everything on it said Mitsubishi but I can find another one any where. I even checked out Mitsubishis heavy equipment line on their website. The other machine of weirdness was a Hitachi dozer. It was bigger than a 650 but smaller than a 750 and it was power shift. They had a customer that bought it and painted it JD yellow. I told them I had seen a link on POlytrac.de that Fiat Hitachi had a deal. Turned out it was a Fiat machine for Hitachi. Great machine I spent a great deal of time on it.

Bellboy
01-02-2009, 03:01 AM
As far as my knowledge of Fiat Hitachi/ New Holland goes, the Fiats are New Hollands. I saw one New Holland, payed close attention to it, and then looked at a Fiat, and they were exactly the same.

As for Bell Hyundai, that ones come up a few times on this thread, and it doesn't seem right to me, but if you can get some pics of a Bell excavator that you believe is a Hyundai, by all means.

As for Terex Doosan, that one needs some investigation!

Tegian
01-06-2009, 05:57 AM
Volvo excavators: In 1991 the venerable (Started in 1939) kerman company became part of Volvo, in 1997 the machines was introduced with Volvo stickers and color. 1998 Volvo bought out Samsung's excavator production and the next year Volvo branded machines were being built in Korea. Volvo made their way into the compact excavator business by buying french manufacturer Pel-Job in 1995, introducing Volvo branded machines in the year 2000.

Wheel loaders: An orignal Volvo product (The first machine is from 1954) in 1985 Volvo and Clark-Michigan merged. Michigan's smaller machines were phased out (Instead Volvos with Michigan stickers were sold on the North American market) and Volvo put their paint on Michigans bigger machines. I belive this lasted until the early 90'is when Volvo bought out their partner. With the Volvo 350F replacing the 330 last year most if not all of Michigans influence on Volvo's wheel loader design are gone I would say. Zettelmayer was bought in 1991 to help Volvo take market shares in the compact wheel loader segment of the market. Parca, Samsung and Pel-Job are other brands that Volvo aquired but their wheel loader lines are today dead.

Skid steers: Volvo bought Scat trak in 2001

Backhoe loaders: Volvos own design. Introduced on the market in 2002. It is worth nothing that Volvo produced "backhoes" earlier. Bigger (And many according to the scandinvians better!) ones but they were discontinued in the late 90is due to the small market. Their EL70c a articulated 10-13 ton machine are missed. Their current line of backhoes arent really even imported to Sweden ... A Swedish Volvo salesmen could prolly not sell one of those "toys" to save his life!

Articulated haulers: Original Volvo (Or atleast Swedish product) springs from Bolinder-Munktell / Livab which started producation of machines in 1955 that have evolved in the todays articulated haulers.

Graders: Have "always" been a Volvo (Or atleast Swedish) product under different brand names. Cannot find the years but for some years (In the 90is?) there wasnt any Volvo graders until Champion was bought in 1997 and Volvo painted Champions showed up in 2001.

Road machinery: In 2007 Volvo bought and repainted Ingersoll Rand's pavers and compactors.

Rigid Haulers: Euclid and Kockums have ended up under the Volvo umbrella but no Volvo rigid haulers have been made since the early 90is. Maybe time for a comeback soon?

Dozers: Never have been any ... Maybe in the future?!

Volvo have a great history site online at Volvo: http://www.volvo.com/constructionequipment/global/en-gb/AboutUs/history/products/introduction.htm

FWD
01-09-2009, 08:33 PM
Unbelievable what's going on in the manfacturing and merger of equipment companies.
I think I read not long ago that Cat sold their interest in ASV and Terex now owns ASV. Like it's been said before, tomorrow this info could be wrong.
FWD

Hyundai
01-12-2009, 02:26 PM
Hi
I have similar question to this thread ( but as I am new to the site I am unable to start a new thread)
I have a 1996 Hyundai LC130-3 which is in dire need of a new set of chains and sprockets . The problem is a new set of chains and sprockets is 3000 plus then I still have to fit them and also replace an idler which has a chunck out if it .
As the machine is our farm machine and worth 5-6000 it seems too much money to invest.As there are fire damaged machines out there I was wondering if anyone knows which machines have the same chain and sprockets ? I know the LC130 is 46 link but any other help re compatability is much appreciated
Thanks
James

AtlasRob
01-12-2009, 05:55 PM
Hi
I have similar question to this thread ( but as I am new to the site I am unable to start a new thread)
I have a 1996 Hyundai LC130-3 which is in dire need of a new set of chains and sprockets . The problem is a new set of chains and sprockets is 3000 plus then I still have to fit them and also replace an idler which has a chunck out if it .
As the machine is our farm machine and worth 5-6000 it seems too much money to invest.As there are fire damaged machines out there I was wondering if anyone knows which machines have the same chain and sprockets ? I know the LC130 is 46 link but any other help re compatability is much appreciated
Thanks
James

On the side of the chain link is a number, I understand every link is marked, clean one up and get the number then your rocking.
My understanding is that many machines will use the same chain and you know how many links you need.

32263

Get the number and come back.
You need to make at least 3 posts then after about an hour you can start your own thread to post.
Rob.

DarrylMueller
01-14-2009, 01:17 PM
I worked for International Harvester in the early 70's as a field machanic for a time, I did power shift trans. Anyway IH was letting Komatsu use some of there patents. Then about 30 years later I saw a Komatsu that was real close to a IH Hough 65 I looked and checked it out the engine even looked like a 466. And yes Deer did copy some of the crawler loaded arm and linkage design from the IH 100 125 175 and 250,s. No one has mentioned HOUGH. Hough was bought by IH and Hough was a pioneer in the rubber tire loaders. and this is were you get the bucket linkage on the modern loaders with the cylinder in the middle, can't think of that special name of the linkage, sorry.

aongheas.macask
01-14-2009, 07:10 PM
I worked for International Harvester in the early 70's as a field machanic for a time, I did power shift trans. Anyway IH was letting Komatsu use some of there patents. Then about 30 years later I saw a Komatsu that was real close to a IH Hough 65 I looked and checked it out the engine even looked like a 466. And yes Deer did copy some of the crawler loaded arm and linkage design from the IH 100 125 175 and 250,s. No one has mentioned HOUGH. Hough was bought by IH and Hough was a pioneer in the rubber tire loaders. and this is were you get the bucket linkage on the modern loaders with the cylinder in the middle, can't think of that special name of the linkage, sorry.
Z Bar Linkage ?.

DarrylMueller
01-14-2009, 10:03 PM
Z Bar Linkage ?.

Makes my brain feel good to recall that!

Hyundai
01-15-2009, 08:47 AM
DEar All

After some help from AtlasRob many thnaks I now have the chain reference for my Hyundai lc130-3 The chain has a D then a larger gap and then the following X6R05 .
I am trying to source a second hand set for my Farm machine as spending 3K on a new set is about 50% of the vlaue of the machine.

Any help re what other machines have these chains would be appreciated

Thanks
James

laketreefarm
01-18-2009, 02:16 PM
Terex has merged ASV and Schaeff product lines to cpmpete in the compact equipment market. All Terex/ASV dealers will handle Terex branded Schaeff loaders and excavators. Schaeff previously built New Holland excavators til Kobelco and New Holland branded each others equipment.

yellowsteel
03-26-2009, 12:31 PM
O&K is also of CNH group. more related to New Holland than CASE or KOBELCO.

drag1line
03-26-2009, 08:17 PM
Sadly CNH has closed down O&K construction. This mining division was bought by Terex and word is that Cat is working with them on some "projects".

MR. KOBELCO
03-27-2009, 10:38 AM
RE: CNH -> CASE, NEW HOLLAND
BASICALLY, WITHOUT GETTING INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL;
THE FIRST NEW HOLLANDS OUT WERE SUMITOMO's.
NEW HOLLAND WAS LOOKING FOR A BETTER EXCAVATOR AND CNH BOUGHT INTO KOBELCO NORTH AMERICA IN ORDER TO GET IT. VERY RECENT OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. THUS BECOMING CASE, NEW HOLLAND, KOBELCO,...
THE END RESULT IS THAT KOBELCO NOW MAKES THE EXCAVATORS FOR BOTH CASE AND NEW HOLLAND.
OTHER THAN THE PAINT AND DECALS & STARTING UP IN A DIFFERENT MODE IT IS A KOBELCO.
CASE MINI EXC (COMPACTS) ARE MADE BY KOBELCO.
THE NEW HOLLANDS' FROM THE MINI EXC, SR UP TO 135SR UP TO THE 20 TON SIZE, EH215 ARE MADE BY KOBELCO TOO.
WHILE KOBELCO STILL CONTINUES TO MAKE AND SUPPORT THE FULL EXCAVATOR LINE
THRU ITS MANY KOBELCO DEALERSHIPS CARRYING THE 17SR ALL THE WAY UP TO THE LATEST LARGEST BUILT TO DATE THE SK850LC-8.

LINK-BELT IS SUMITOMO.

HITACHI MAKES THE JOHN DEERE MINUS THE DIFFERENCE OF THE ENGINE.
JOHN DEERE PUT IN ITS OWN ENGINE.
IF YOU NEED JD PARTS MANY OF THE PARTS ARE INTERCHANGABLE ACROSS BOTH HITCHI AND DEERE. THE END USER CAN GET QUOTES NOW FROM THE LIKES OF WAJAX.

MITSUBISHI EXC ~ CAT

SAMSUNG IS NOW LABELLED AS VOLVO

OUR FAMOUS MDI/YUTANI WAS BASICALLY RELABELLED WHEN IT BECAME KOBELCO

CHECK US OUT @ http://www.robertgreenequipment.com

Burnout
03-27-2009, 02:58 PM
RE: CNH -> CASE, NEW HOLLAND
BASICALLY, WITHOUT GETTING INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL;
THE FIRST NEW HOLLANDS OUT WERE SUMITOMO's.
NEW HOLLAND WAS LOOKING FOR A BETTER EXCAVATOR AND CNH BOUGHT INTO KOBELCO NORTH AMERICA IN ORDER TO GET IT. VERY RECENT OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. THUS BECOMING CASE, NEW HOLLAND, KOBELCO,...
THE END RESULT IS THAT KOBELCO NOW MAKES THE EXCAVATORS FOR BOTH CASE AND NEW HOLLAND.
OTHER THAN THE PAINT AND DECALS & STARTING UP IN A DIFFERENT MODE IT IS A KOBELCO.
CASE MINI EXC (COMPACTS) ARE MADE BY KOBELCO.
THE NEW HOLLANDS' FROM THE MINI EXC, SR UP TO 135SR UP TO THE 20 TON SIZE, EH215 ARE MADE BY KOBELCO TOO.
WHILE KOBELCO STILL CONTINUES TO MAKE AND SUPPORT THE FULL EXCAVATOR LINE
THRU ITS MANY KOBELCO DEALERSHIPS CARRYING THE 17SR ALL THE WAY UP TO THE LATEST LARGEST BUILT TO DATE THE SK850LC-8.

LINK-BELT IS SUMITOMO.

HITACHI MAKES THE JOHN DEERE MINUS THE DIFFERENCE OF THE ENGINE.
JOHN DEERE PUT IN ITS OWN ENGINE.
IF YOU NEED JD PARTS MANY OF THE PARTS ARE INTERCHANGABLE ACROSS BOTH HITCHI AND DEERE. THE END USER CAN GET QUOTES NOW FROM THE LIKES OF WAJAX.

MITSUBISHI EXC ~ CAT

SAMSUNG IS NOW LABELLED AS VOLVO

OUR FAMOUS MDI/YUTANI WAS BASICALLY RELABELLED WHEN IT BECAME KOBELCO

CHECK US OUT @ http://www.robertgreenequipment.com

Actually JD and Hitachi no longer have different engines. Most if not all the Deere hoes have lost the Deere engine option.

And dispite what everybody tells you...... CAPS LOCK is not cruise control for the awesome.

drag1line
03-27-2009, 08:43 PM
RE: CNH -> CASE, NEW HOLLAND
BASICALLY, WITHOUT GETTING INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL;
THE FIRST NEW HOLLANDS OUT WERE SUMITOMO's.
NEW HOLLAND WAS LOOKING FOR A BETTER EXCAVATOR AND CNH BOUGHT INTO KOBELCO NORTH AMERICA IN ORDER TO GET IT. VERY RECENT OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. THUS BECOMING CASE, NEW HOLLAND, KOBELCO,...
THE END RESULT IS THAT KOBELCO NOW MAKES THE EXCAVATORS FOR BOTH CASE AND NEW HOLLAND.
OTHER THAN THE PAINT AND DECALS & STARTING UP IN A DIFFERENT MODE IT IS A KOBELCO.
CASE MINI EXC (COMPACTS) ARE MADE BY KOBELCO.
THE NEW HOLLANDS' FROM THE MINI EXC, SR UP TO 135SR UP TO THE 20 TON SIZE, EH215 ARE MADE BY KOBELCO TOO.
WHILE KOBELCO STILL CONTINUES TO MAKE AND SUPPORT THE FULL EXCAVATOR LINE
THRU ITS MANY KOBELCO DEALERSHIPS CARRYING THE 17SR ALL THE WAY UP TO THE LATEST LARGEST BUILT TO DATE THE SK850LC-8.

OUR FAMOUS MDI/YUTANI WAS BASICALLY RELABELLED WHEN IT BECAME KOBELCO

CHECK US OUT @ http://www.robertgreenequipment.com

Sir,
Not to stir you up...but you have the facts WRONG.
New Holland was never Sumitomo. The EC series was made by O&K, which, like NH, is owned by Fiat. O&K Now shut down for the construction machinery.
Case Excavators above the mini's, have NEVER been Kobelco. Currently they are Sumitomo,,before that. Case, Poclain, Drott, and probably a few more. Today, they are owned by Fiat.
Kobelco does make the Case mini's,
Kobelco does or did, make the excavators for .........KAWASAKI.....in Japan
MDI/Yutani...was ALWAYS made by Kobelco. It was an OEM arrangement, marketed simultaineously with Kobelco Brand, in only North America. This was similar to Link Belt and Case today or Hitachi and John Deere today.
Today, all NH brands in NA are made by Kobelco. In the EU NH is also Kobelco built under liscense in Italy. Not sure about the 80 ton NH. At one time it too was a Sumitomo, but probably Kobelco now.
At one time, there was one model of Case excavator in ONLY South America factory of CNH that actually was a Kobelco. Not sure today situation.

oversize
03-28-2009, 08:12 AM
All i can tell is that my Kobelco key will open and start a case 30 ton machine and my sumitomo key will not open or start a 12 months old Volvo machine, I do know that dawoo machine's are the same as a doosoon, And i think hyunda machines are kato's

drag1line
03-28-2009, 09:40 AM
Volvo came from Samsung. Note sure of key situation today.
Doosan company bought Daewoo. Note, this is Daewoo's or Doosan's second try to come to the USA. They pulled out for no support in the late 1980's.
Hyundai came from a license agreement with Kobelco via Mitsubishi Corporation..Confused?
Been in this business wayyyy TOO LONG!

Burnout
03-28-2009, 04:11 PM
Sir,
Not to stir you up...but you have the facts WRONG.
New Holland was never Sumitomo. The EC series was made by O&K, which, like NH, is owned by Fiat. O&K Now shut down for the construction machinery.
Case Excavators above the mini's, have NEVER been Kobelco. Currently they are Sumitomo,,before that. Case, Poclain, Drott, and probably a few more. Today, they are owned by Fiat.
Kobelco does make the Case mini's,
Kobelco does or did, make the excavators for .........KAWASAKI.....in Japan
MDI/Yutani...was ALWAYS made by Kobelco. It was an OEM arrangement, marketed simultaineously with Kobelco Brand, in only North America. This was similar to Link Belt and Case today or Hitachi and John Deere today.
Today, all NH brands in NA are made by Kobelco. In the EU NH is also Kobelco built under liscense in Italy. Not sure about the 80 ton NH. At one time it too was a Sumitomo, but probably Kobelco now.
At one time, there was one model of Case excavator in ONLY South America factory of CNH that actually was a Kobelco. Not sure today situation.


You sir seem to have the Kobelco/Sumitomo brand meorized. Can you help me with something then?...lol

My grandfather has an old John Deere #7 Mini Ex. I am pretty sure they were manufactured by Yanmar back in the day. Are the new ones still built by Yanmar? The company I work for has a ton of em but I can never remember to look at the plates. And were the earlier model 35C's built by Kobelco? I remember checking one out at rb and it has a Kobelco tag on it. I thought that seemed weird I figured it would have been either Yanmar or a Hitachi if their into the small hoes like that. Any help would be appareciated.

drag1line
03-28-2009, 07:43 PM
Burn Out
LOVE your avitar..have three jeeps and know the pain!!!!
To my fading memory, I do not know of Kobelco every producing Mini's for Hitachi or Deere. I would GUESS the mini's are Hitachi.
THere is or was a tie in with Furukawa and Deere on wheel Loaders.
Just to add to the confusion, early Kobelco mini's were built by Takeuchi, then a wholy owned subsidiary of Kobe steel...Mind not up to that name. They also made transmissions for loaders, then Kobelco took over complete design and manufacturing around 10 years ago. Same engineering group as the large machines.

farm_boy
03-28-2009, 10:31 PM
Actually JD and Hitachi no longer have different engines. Most if not all the Deere hoes have lost the Deere engine option.

Burnout...I'll give you a pass on this one b/c you know the 450 - 850 pretty well....but the 120 - 350 do in fact have Deere engines and Deere cooling packages. This excludes the 135, 225 and wheeled models.

coopers
03-28-2009, 10:57 PM
Burnout...I'll give you a pass on this one b/c you know the 450 - 850 pretty well....but the 120 - 350 do in fact have Deere engines and Deere cooling packages. This excludes the 135, 225 and wheeled models.

So the 135 does not have a Deere engine? The 120's and 160's...does this apply to the C models too and not just the D's?

farm_boy
03-28-2009, 11:04 PM
So the 135 does not have a Deere engine? The 120's and 160's...does this apply to the C models too and not just the D's?

Nope....the reduced tail swing machines are built in Japan like the 450D-850D. All of these machines have an Isuzu engine.

C models as well. The conventional machines have Deere engines, 120 and up to the 350 in the D-series. The 450CLC had a Deere 12.5, but the D-series went to an Isuzu 15.7L.

Burnout
03-29-2009, 04:09 AM
Burnout...I'll give you a pass on this one b/c you know the 450 - 850 pretty well....but the 120 - 350 do in fact have Deere engines and Deere cooling packages. This excludes the 135, 225 and wheeled models.

This is true.... little hoes get little John Deere engines.

As for Drag1line.... yeah it's different when you own a Jeep. I just managed to talk the girlfriend unit into letting me buy a brand new set of 36" BFG M/T's because my M/TR's suck in the snow.

drag1line
03-29-2009, 04:34 AM
Burn out.
How true. Small Deer's.... Little Engines. Wonder if same Isuzu as in the Chevy Pick Up?

However in YOUR case, big tires..you need a stroker! Got one!!
You got the tires for her safety!!!!!! Yeah!!!!.....

We digress. Any one want to start topic "who makes what engine for what machine???" This topic has become a monster!...No, did not keep notes.

Farm Boy..where do the Wheeled models come from???

Burnout
03-29-2009, 04:35 PM
Burn out.
How true. Small Deer's.... Little Engines. Wonder if same Isuzu as in the Chevy Pick Up?

However in YOUR case, big tires..you need a stroker! Got one!!
You got the tires for her safety!!!!!! Yeah!!!!.....

We digress. Any one want to start topic "who makes what engine for what machine???" This topic has become a monster!...No, did not keep notes.

Farm Boy..where do the Wheeled models come from???

I'm already lookin for a stroker. 35's with 4.10's and playing in the mountains suuuuuuucks. I have a set of 4.88's sitting in boxes here just waiting to throw em in.

Bellboy
04-02-2009, 11:04 AM
I do know that dawoo machine's are the same as a doosoon, And i think hyunda machines are kato's

Doosan=Daewoo. True. And on that note, I don't think that Daewoo is around anymore. ?
Hyundai=Kato. False.

Hyundai, as far as I know, is Hyundai, with some bought out Halla technology. Bell, a South African brand, definately uses Kato excavators. In fact, the Bell machines are sold with the Kato badge still on them, with some Bell paint of course. Bell HD820E iii= Kato HD820E iii. There seems to be some general confusion about this, but the two machines, Hyundai and Kato look nothing alike, seen the cabs of both, and they are completely different, and they just don't look like one another. Kato uses Mitsubishi engines, Hyundai's, Cummins i think.

blueman
04-03-2009, 04:16 PM
Someone ought to write a book about all the relations. Here's a current list (brand = source) and commentary at the end, sorry I don't know all the mini/compact relations:

Kobelco = Kobelco
New Holland = Kobelco (Americas)
New Holland-Kobelco = Kobelco (Europe)
Case = Sumitomo
Link-Belt = Sumitomo (Americas)
Sumitomo = Sumitomo (Asia)
Cat = Cat/Mitsubishi (JV)
Deere = Hitachi (Americas, a few models with Deere engines)
Hitachi = Hitachi
Hyundai = Hyundai (bought Halla some years ago)
Volvo = Volvo (bought Akerman and Samsung in the 90's)
JCB = JCB (started with Sumitomo but went their own way)
Komatsu = Komatsu
Komatsu mining = Komatsu (bought Demag)
Liebherr = Liebherr
Bell = Kato (Africa and now UK)
Doosan = Doosan (bought Daewoo)
Terex = Doosan (USA)
Terex = Terex (Europe, based on Atlas who they bought)
Terex/O&K Mining = O&K (owned by Terex)

Sidenotes:
. CNH (Case New Holland, owned by Fiat Group) owned O&K Construction and briefly marketed that excavator as New Holland in the Americas. It was rationalized and switched to Kobelco.
. Case used to be Poclain before the switch to Sumitomo.
. CNH sold Hitachi in Europe as Fiat-Hitachi's but that dissolved in the early 2000's and led to the Kobelco relation.
. Cat excavators are from a 50/50% JV with Mitsubishi. Cat just took a majority share last year.
. Some Deere and Hitachi models are built in a 50/50% JV factory in USA, the rest from Japan.
. Deere sells and supports all Hitachi in the Americas, while Hitachi sells their own in the rest of the world.

Tigerotor77W
04-03-2009, 08:39 PM
That's a pretty darn good summary. You wouldn't happen to work in Asheville, would you? ***

DarrylMueller
04-04-2009, 01:54 AM
That's a great list. Case does use Kobelco in the compact line of mini excavators along with Sumitomo in full size excavators.

stock
04-06-2009, 11:46 AM
Copied from elsewhere

Case, Sumitomo expand excavator alliance - Case Corp. and Sumitomo Construction Machinery Company Ltd. joint venture
Ngy đăng: 19/01/2009 10:53:56

Continuing the '90s trend of alliances and joint ventures between large manufacturers, Case Corp., Racine, Wis., and Sumitomo (S.H.I.) Construction Machinery Co., Ltd., of Japan, have signed a letter of intent to form a global alliance to market and manufacture hydraulic crawler excavators.

The agreement, announced in late January, builds upon a 1992 North American supply agreement between the two companies for hydraulic crawler excavators.

When fully implemented, the alliance is expected to provide both Case, one of the world's largest light-to-medium construction equipment suppliers, and Sumitomo, one of Japan's leading construction equipment manufacturers, greater penetration in the global excavator market.

The agreement with Sumitomo is just the latest in a series of interesting strategic moves on the construction equipment side by Case. Earlier in January, the company announced a supply agreement through which Ingersoll-Rand will supply three models of its telescopic handlers for sale as Case-branded equipment through Case dealers in North America beginning in 1998.

Last year, Case acquired Bor-Mor Inc., a maker of horizontal directional drilling equipment and in late 1996, Case bought Fermec Holdings Limited, a U.K. construction equipment company.

According to Case, the implementation of the alliance will vary in structure and timing in the companies' regional markets. In North America, Case will acquire 50 percent interest in Sumitomo's Link-Belt subsidiary, a manufacturer and marketer of excavators and cranes. The Link-Belt operations become part of a North American joint venture between the two companies that will market a full line of Sumitomo-designed excavators through a dealer network that will incorporate selected parts of the Case and Link-Belt distribution networks.

Link-Belt currently offers nine Quantum series excavators from 14,990 lb. to 99,800 lb., along with specialized equipment for scrap and logging applications.

The joint venture will also expand its manufacturing capability to better serve its customers in North America. The joint venture will manufacture and market the Link-Belt crane line exclusively through the Link-Belt existing distribution channels and under the Link-Belt brand name. Link-Belt offers a range of nine hydraulic rough-terrain cranes from 18 to 65 tons; seven hydraulic truck cranes from 14 to 100 tons; a 22-ton hydraulic all-terrain crane; three lattice boom truck cranes from 150 to 300 tons; and five lattice boom crawler cranes from 75 to 200 tons.

In Latin America, the alliance will include a supply agreement through which Case construction equipment dealers will sell Sumitomo-designed excavators beginning in 1998. This will significantly expand Case's construction equipment line in the Latin American region, where the company does not currently market a full line of hydraulic excavators, Case said.

In Asia, Case and Sumitomo will form a distribution joint venture to increase sales of Case and Sumitomo construction equipment.
In Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and the Former Soviet Union, Case will augment, where appropriate, the sales of its excavator line with Sumitomo-designed units.

Case began selling excavators in North America supplied by Sumitomo in 1992. Today, Case offers six Sumitomo-designed excavator models in North America, all in the medium industrial range of 12 to 50 tons. In 1998, Case is introducing two additional Sumitomo-supplied models for specific industry applications.

Case is selectively adding to its product line to capitalize on growing segments of the light-to-medium construction equipment market. Approximately 40 percent of Case's 1996 revenue of $5.4 billion came from sales of construction equipment, which includes loader/backhoes, wheel loaders, skid steers, excavators, trenchers, crawlers and drills.

stock
04-06-2009, 12:04 PM
Someone ought to write a book about all the relations. Here's a current list (brand = source) and commentary at the end, sorry I don't know all the mini/compact relations:

Kobelco = Kobelco
New Holland = Kobelco (Americas)
New Holland-Kobelco = Kobelco (Europe)
Case = Sumitomo/Poclain
Link-Belt = Sumitomo// case/New holland (Americas)
Sumitomo = Sumitomo/Case (Asia /Russia)
Cat = Cat/Mitsubishi (JV)
Deere = Hitachi /Yanmar(Americas, a few models with Deere engines)
Hitachi= FIAT HITACHI (Europe)
Kobelco= Kobelco(Europe)
Hitachi = Hitachi
Hyundai = Hyundai (bought Halla some years ago)
Volvo = Volvo (bought Akerman and Samsung in the 90's)
JCB = JCB (Sumitomo /Case )
Komatsu = Komatsu
Komatsu mining = Komatsu (bought Demag)
Liebherr = Liebherr
Bell = Kato (Africa and now UK)
Doosan = Doosan (bought Daewoo)
Terex = Doosan (USA)
Terex = Terex (Europe, based on Atlas who they bought)
Terex/O&K Mining = O&K (owned by Terex)


and I stand to be corrected

blueman
04-06-2009, 07:13 PM
That's a pretty darn good summary. You wouldn't happen to work in Asheville, would you? ***

Hey, good guess! You have the advantage on me - are we neighbors?

linesman1
04-07-2009, 09:27 AM
Hi Guys

anyone seen this video of a climbing Liebherr excavator.

Amazing

http://www.engineering.com/Videos/VideoPlayer/tabid/4627/VideoId/816/LiebherrThe-Climbing-Excavator.aspx

Squizzy246B
04-07-2009, 09:39 AM
Hi Guys

anyone seen this video of a climbing Liebherr excavator.

Amazing

http://www.engineering.com/Videos/VideoPlayer/tabid/4627/VideoId/816/LiebherrThe-Climbing-Excavator.aspx

Hello Linesman: We have had a number of threads on this machine but that is the first time I have seen that video.

Welcome to the Heavy Equipment Forums

DigDug
04-07-2009, 06:41 PM
I hadnt seen that video either. Thanks for sharing. I am saving that video for sure. doug

Tigerotor77W
04-08-2009, 12:54 PM
Hey, good guess! You have the advantage on me - are we neighbors?

Haha, no... it was just a guess. Your user name is blue man and your location is North Carolina... I assumed that the "blue" meant Blue Ridge Mountains, and since you know construction equipment, I assumed that meant Asheville... and a specific manufacturer.

Maybe my sleuthing is completely off the mark, but that's why I asked, anyhow. :D

RentEquipment
04-10-2009, 09:25 AM
Doosan and Terex excavators

Red Bank
04-10-2009, 03:26 PM
Hi Guys

anyone seen this video of a climbing Liebherr excavator.

Amazing

http://www.engineering.com/Videos/VideoPlayer/tabid/4627/VideoId/816/LiebherrThe-Climbing-Excavator.aspx

Thanks for the video link, I have seen the pictures and was impressed, after seeing how it pins into the tower and latches on to the tower I was disappointed, trust me, I do not want to climb the tower, but it was a let down. But thanks!

AtlasRob
04-10-2009, 05:40 PM
.......seeing how it pins into the tower and latches on to the tower I was disappointed,

I thought it was held on by magnets :rolleyes: :D

Bellboy
04-12-2009, 05:25 AM
Doosan=Daewoo. True. And on that note, I don't think that Daewoo is around anymore. ?
Hyundai=Kato. False.

Hyundai, as far as I know, is Hyundai, with some bought out Halla technology. Bell, a South African brand, definately uses Kato excavators. In fact, the Bell machines are sold with the Kato badge still on them, with some Bell paint of course. Bell HD820E iii= Kato HD820E iii. There seems to be some general confusion about this, but the two machines, Hyundai and Kato look nothing alike, seen the cabs of both, and they are completely different, and they just don't look like one another. Kato uses Mitsubishi engines, Hyundai's, Cummins i think.

Ahem, after much digging, and now feeling like a complete dork, I have found out that Hyundai did indeed supply Bell with excavators. However, that product line has subsiquently fallen through, and now Bell uses only Kato excavators. The Hyundai product range was the B...CDLC range under Bell. In fact, the paint scheme didn't really seem to change.:D

trace11
07-25-2009, 11:10 AM
I tried to post a new tread but cant since im new here. this question does pertain to this thread. Where can i find specifications on mitsubishi mini excavators. i cant seem to find any info on these machines. Are all cat minis the same as mitsubishi with a diffrent label and paint. which models are the same? any help would be great.

Case 580e
07-25-2009, 01:50 PM
volvo and akerman i think

watglen
07-25-2009, 06:16 PM
Case/linkbelt/sumitomo relationship was established before case and new holland got together. Same thing for the new holland/ kobelco relationship.

I may have heard the case machines will soon be built by kobelco once the contracts run out.

And, i could be all wrong...

watglen
07-25-2009, 06:18 PM
Oh yeah, Komatsu minis are built by kobelco i think

zxa
07-25-2009, 10:50 PM
Hi Guys

anyone seen this video of a climbing Liebherr excavator.

Amazing

http://www.engineering.com/Videos/VideoPlayer/tabid/4627/VideoId/816/LiebherrThe-Climbing-Excavator.aspx


impresive....ouch...:)

drag1line
07-27-2009, 09:25 AM
Just a couple of notes on above posts.
1. Kobelco does not build Mini's for Komatsu. Those are Komatsu. Kobelco mini's are Case, New Holland and Kobelco. Kobelco in Japan, did supply excavators for...Kawasaki.
2. Hyundai did not start with bought out Hella technology, as there was blood relatives involved in those two companies. In fact Hyundai technology is actually from Kobelco, from whom they had a contract to build under some sort of agreement...brokered by Mitsubish Corporation..>Confused??

Greg
07-27-2009, 08:19 PM
As for JCB fit and finish looking good at Conexpo what would you expect? Do you think anyone is going to take machine to a big show like that does not get special attention to details not given to going to dealers? Cat builds their excavators in Aurora, Il where they also do the wheel loaders in the same plant. Was just there in February.

drag1line
07-28-2009, 09:53 AM
Yes, Cat does build some of their excavators in the US..............BUT...they are built under license from Shin, Caterpillar Mitsubishi, using Mitsubishi technology that they bought in the middle 80's..............which originated from Yumbo!!!!!!!!
Most are imported from Japan or Belgium.

Tigerotor77W
07-28-2009, 08:48 PM
BUT...they are built under license from Shin, Caterpillar Mitsubishi, using Mitsubishi technology that they bought in the middle 80's..............which originated from Yumbo!!!!!!!!

Er, the "technology" is created from a joint venture, so it's not entirely under license per se. There are a fair number of Cat engineers who work on excavators -- the main design center is in Japan, but that's not to say that Cat has nothing to do with the design and that it's all the brainchild of another company.

Squizzy246B
07-28-2009, 09:24 PM
Er, the "technology" is created from a joint venture, so it's not entirely under license per se. There are a fair number of Cat engineers who work on excavators -- the main design center is in Japan, but that's not to say that Cat has nothing to do with the design and that it's all the brainchild of another company.

and especially not since Caterpillar owns over 60% of MHI

lrk
08-03-2009, 06:13 PM
Do case still have a tie up with Poclain,I would like to get a cicuit diagram for the hydraulics on a poclain FC 80.
Lawrie

goddard56
08-04-2009, 12:39 AM
depending on the model some of the cats are built with mitubishi

Machine head
08-11-2009, 08:29 AM
Good evening all , i am new to this site and i am very imprest in what i have read and seen so far.
I am curious to know if Yanmar mini excavators and Wacker Neuson mini excavators have some sort of conection, do Yanmar manafacture mini excavators for Wacker neuson ? maybe one of our european members can fill us in.
thanks

jsw
09-21-2009, 05:32 PM
Need Help!! I have a JSW BH80E LC that needs a swinggear box and pump motor. I was told linkbelt or Koreing may have been manufactured by the same company, does anyone
know?

wolfman
09-21-2009, 06:59 PM
Deere/Hitachi made at the same time side by side only differance is color and deere has deere engines in them, toured the North Carolina plant in 2002. Very impressive they told us from the time the order sheet come in the front door the machine parts were picked was built, painted, tested and loaded for shipment in 14 days. cool operation.

MR. KOBELCO
09-21-2009, 09:04 PM
i can help.
my boss sold jsw machines before mdi yutani & now kobelco.
yes some of the components used in koreing are the same.
if you e-mail me all the numbers off the tag i can look into where you can purchase.
i have had luck in rebuilding the main hyd pumps on these machines with using after market pump components.
they can be rebuilt.
you can also try H&R construction parts out of buffalo.
1-800-333-0650
i have two customers i know of that are parting out their jsw machines...they are bh80e
i need your serial number of the machine itself for there is a serial number break that helps me determine what your major components are comprised of in order to properly match.
hf_hydraulics@hotmail.com
you do have options i can offer.

Squizzy246B
09-21-2009, 10:25 PM
Good evening all , i am new to this site and i am very imprest in what i have read and seen so far.
I am curious to know if Yanmar mini excavators and Wacker Neuson mini excavators have some sort of conection, do Yanmar manafacture mini excavators for Wacker neuson ? maybe one of our european members can fill us in.
thanks

G,day Machine Head: I doubt it. Yanmar and Hitachi mini-ex come out of the same factory with some minor differences. Many mini-ex use Yanmar engines.

willie59
09-21-2009, 10:35 PM
G,day Machine Head: I doubt it. Yanmar and Hitachi mini-ex come out of the same factory with some minor differences. Many mini-ex use Yanmar engines.

That's interesting Squizzy...didn't know that.

I know that Deere has had connections with Yanmar for years back, I've worked on Deere FL series mowers that have Yanmar engines. Maybe that's another thread topic; how many mfgs use Yanmar or Kubota diesel engines? Seems those two mfgs have their small diesel engines in a lot of different machines. Oh yeah, maybe Isuzu as well?

Squizzy246B
09-22-2009, 06:33 AM
That's interesting Squizzy...didn't know that.

...ummm... ...nope..better to say nothing:rolleyes::D


I know that Deere has had connections with Yanmar for years back, I've worked on Deere FL series mowers that have Yanmar engines. Maybe that's another thread topic; how many mfgs use Yanmar or Kubota diesel engines? Seems those two mfgs have their small diesel engines in a lot of different machines. Oh yeah, maybe Isuzu as well?
TIGEROTOR77W might know the details of the actual facility in which Hitachi and Yanmar make their mini-ex....I read about in a trade mag a few years ago; but it was just after I bought the Yanmar and had had the local Hitachi salesman blowing heated air up my pants. The Hitachi man contended that his machine was vastly superior. I was actually sitting on aforementioned "superior" machine at the time. Whilst I was at least paying some attention to the good gentleman I was really thinking how similar it was to the Yanmar I had been on the day before. The only real difference I could spot was the sticks and the Yanmar had hydraulic quick hitch while the Hitachi had auto idle.

It looked to me that Hitachi had made their own stick..maybe with Deere???:beatsme but the Yanmar had much better cylinder guards so I went that way. We rarely see Deere mini-ex down here so I don't know if the similarities cross to the Deere mini...I think not.

The reference Wolfman makes above to Deere/Hitachi is certainly true on mid and large machines to some extent but I don't think that applies to the compact ranges.

The Wacker Neuson thing well...with all the re-shuffling in the compact world..re Terex/Bobcat/Ingersoll Rand et al...who knows whos doing who???. Maybe the Yanmar/Hitachi plant is also producing for Wacker...I thought it was terex but:beatsme:confused:

jsw
09-22-2009, 10:02 AM
Hello Mr Kobelco,
Thanks for the response, Below is the serial# of the machine however I can't tell
if it starts with a 5 or a S, I believe it is 56L1013. It looks like the part model number is SG08e-008 or 5608e-008 the tag was not very clear, and the serial number is 8712002. If you like you can call me FRANK at 248-343-3667, there are some other numbers that are stamped on the part I'm not sure if they will help , one set is on top 1311-161F the other set is on the bottom 7511-046. I can email a photo.

Tigerotor77W
09-23-2009, 01:48 AM
TIGEROTOR77W might know the details of the actual facility in which Hitachi and Yanmar make their mini-ex....

I have no idea, sadly... maybe farm_boy?

I wasn't aware that Yanmar and Hitachi are still in a relationship. I know the mini Deeres are Hitachis, but I didn't know that Yanmar is still in the picture.

heavylift
09-23-2009, 02:30 AM
I think the equipment is almost like a the new Nascar cars,,,, more or less the same body... just a different manufacture sticker stuck on the side...

We have Deeres' with orange parts....
a Cat with a bright yellow cab door instead of the dull yellow Cat.... I can't remember if the door has a mitibushi sticker on it or not

milleam
09-24-2009, 08:44 PM
Does anyone know what brand of fuel system (bosch, denso, etc.) is on the Isuzu 9.8L engine in the CX470B?

stock03
09-26-2009, 10:46 AM
So is there a particular brand to avoid? I'm really confused with my limited knowledge of tractors and such. I was under the impression to stay away from the "gray" market units.

jsw
09-26-2009, 12:31 PM
I have a JSW BH80E-LC, which manufacturers were involved in these excavators?

garieresco
09-27-2009, 04:59 PM
I have a JSW BH80E-LC, which manufacturers were involved in these excavators?

COSIGN, I'm curious as well, or did they just go under?

Pgentech
09-30-2009, 04:41 AM
Does hitachi and deere have similiar makes and models? If yes which ones?

Squizzy246B
09-30-2009, 07:49 AM
Does hitachi and deere have similiar makes and models? If yes which ones?

Hello Pgentech. Welcome to the Heavy Equipment Forums. If you have a read back through this thread you will find a good explanation of the Hitachi/Deere arrangement as applicable to the medium and large size excavators.

Pgentech
09-30-2009, 08:22 AM
Hi Squizzy Yes I know that is why the lame question. My real question was submitted regarding a hydraulic cylinder bleeding off in one direction only. But the rules state you must submit at least three replies before you can post thus I tried to pick three that where or would not get allot of replies.

If you can help with the bleed off I would be greatful

EquipmentEditor
10-01-2009, 02:20 PM
Does hitachi and deere have similiar makes and models? If yes which ones?

Yes, they do. You can do side-by-side comparisons at our specifications site: http://specs.constructionequipment.com/Specs.aspx?CatId=76772&Category=Earthmoving&ReqType=M&ReqEquipType=Crawler%20Excavators%20%3E6%20metric% 20tons&

buddfalen
10-04-2009, 10:23 AM
Hello

Any one have any idea how far back the Case/Link Belt/Sumitomo marriage has existed? I have a 1996 Link Belt LS 2800. For that matter, ( I know this thread is about excavators, but) I have a 1976 Link Belt 22 ton crane, is it the same as any other brand names?

stock
10-04-2009, 02:45 PM
I think it started around that time,when Jcb split from summitomo case moved in,and stopped manufacturing proclain.The case 9010 was the same as a JCB Js130 of 94 vintage..

John C.
10-04-2009, 03:21 PM
Link-Belt and Sumutomo have been together since the early eighties on excavators. They were the small ones at first, 2650, 2700, 2800 and 3400 size were all made in Japan by Sumutomo. Link-Belt made the 5400, 5800, 6400 and 7200 in Kentucky. Link-Belt cranes were always made in Kentucky.

Drott, Case and Poclain were owned by Tennico Corporation until sometime in the late eighties. Poclains were marketed by Case in the United States. Poclain made the twenty ton and larger units while Case concentrated on the smaller machines in the Drott product line. The Case product line was inexpensive and built to stay that way. The didn't provide a long service life and their cost per hour went sky high after a few thousand hours of operation. The Poclain line was usually priced in the premium market, had very poor factory and dealer support and the sky was the limit as far as cost per hour was concerned.

Case bought itself out of Tennico sometime in the eighties and formed some kind of joint partnership with Sumitomo in the early to mid nineties. They got the new model of machines before the Link-Belt dealers did which caused a lot of confusion and plenty of hard feelings at the time.

I don't know what all is happening nowdays with either as their market share in my area of the country is very poor. Link-Belt has owned the logging market until the last couple of years with the Deere/Hitachi lines taking a big bite. There are a few companies using Link-Belt excavators as leverage to get better prices on the market leaders. Case seems to be completely out of the mid to large machine lines around here.

ftb
12-19-2009, 07:35 PM
I know Bobcat builds their own, with the exception of the 442. I think Terex builds it for them. The rest, they claim are built in the U.S.

let me correct you the 442 is made by schaeff

CM1995
12-20-2009, 01:07 AM
let me correct you the 442 is made by schaeff

Terex bought Schaeff in 2002. Here (http://www.terex.com/main.php?obj=content&action=VIEW&nav=content&id=about_history&cancel_login) is the info from Terex's website.

A couple more threads that discussed this machine:

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=11193

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=7821&highlight=Terex+TC75

he2009
12-20-2009, 08:25 PM
In the EXCAVATORS in North America are for the most part made by those you already mentioned, the rest come into the U.S. as "Gray Market Machines"; these "Gray" machines are made overseas and sold here at bargain prices, but when it comes to getting parts for these "Grays", not so easy to get, especially when the clock is ticking away on a project and the machine is down. - Word to the wise: Check parts availability first because the money you save now could cause you to be an "also ran" in future project bids.

iceberg210
08-24-2010, 04:49 PM
I'm really happy to see all the information gathered in this thread. Really interesting and amazing information on such a tightly knit industry...

Seeing some posts on JSW's I'm curious, were these just rebadged MDI Yuntai machines? They look somewhat similar,and even more so similar to the last Koehring models before they disapeared off the charts... Does anyone know who was building JSW and Koehring's before they disapeared? And why JSW and Koehring disapeared?

Thanks.

mannix
08-27-2010, 12:55 AM
Interesting fact .

stock
08-27-2010, 03:41 AM
:D
Interesting fact .


Which one?????????????????????

JCBiron
09-03-2010, 08:57 AM
If CAT & JCB are together, you can't tel because they look nothing alike not to mention that CAT is way better built.

ASV & CAT are together on the tracked skid steers
Bobcat & IR (Ingersoll Rand)

JCB is not together with anyone on their excavators (or anything for that matter). As someone above posted, in the earlier years, JCB had a joint effort with Sumitomo (hence the JS name), but that dissovled in the mid-90's. The JCB JS excavator is designed and built by JCB in their Heavy Line plant in the UK. Now I'm not claiming that it is entirely JCB components, because like everyone in the industry, they use a lot of Japanese pumps, valves, motors, etc. But the machine is engineered and built by JCB.

I think some of the confusion comes from the fact that JCB used to make Cat's backhoes for them in the 80's, and still made their cabs into the 90's I believe.

SweCE
09-04-2010, 08:18 AM
http://www.volvo.com/constructionequipment/asia/en-gb/newsmedia/pressreleases/NewsItemPage.htm?channelId=2344&ItemID=77062&sl=en-gb