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slagpot
10-02-2010, 12:58 AM
I didn't want to post it on the forum for obvious reasons. I was wondering a couple of things after watching it though. First the back story...

The name of it is " Dozer rolls down a mountain" on youtube. My first thought was does this guy have the first clue of what he is doing ? Answer....No. Secondly I see he was trying to push very large boulders down the slope and I mean slope. I don't have anymore information other than the video. It was shot in Ca.

Unfortunately the operator of this bulldozer lost his life doing something very foolish. For that may he rest in peace. Still I thought. Why take the chance if you don't know what you're doing. Sadly this sort of thing happens all the time. Harry the home owner ,wants to save some money. Rents a piece of equipment {Knowing full well** he doesn't have a clue how powerful it is. Then destroys something,kills someone or self.

This is why we have HEAVY EQUIPMENT OPERATORS as a trained,skilled group of folks who know what to do. Now, I've both seen,done & heard of things that weren't safe. This video top's the cake on unsafe operation on any scale...

olddozerhand
10-02-2010, 02:14 AM
That can happen to "High Time" operators too. Sometimes a situation develops that is unforeseeable and the worst happens. I went to school with a kid, elementary at the time, about 1955, whose dad was as experienced as they get. He was working a steep "Side Hill" on an old D8, no roll cage or overhead protection. Low-Side Slope gave way and he didn`t get the machine turned in time. Low side track bit in and the CAT went over. Threw him out and rolled over him. He was dead where he lay. I remember the incident as a kid. My uncle, who was good friends with the guy, told me about it years later after I started runnin' Dozers and I never forgot it. It`s dangerous work and it only takes a split-second lapse of concentration to get past the "Point of No Return"..

JDOFMEMI
10-02-2010, 02:33 AM
Slagpot

Good call on not posting it. Someone did post it a while back, and it got moderated out of existence soon after.

It is a horrible result of someone without the level of experience needed to do the job in dangerous conditions.
It could be a good education on what NOT to do when working a steep slope. The main thing I seen was that the operator was more concerned with rolling the large rocks off the mountain than he was in making and keeping safe working area for his machine. You should NEVER go out to the end of the loose material like that just to chase a rock. Build out to it. The rock will still be there. Once you have plenty of room, then roll it. If it does not go, don't chase it too far.

The other thing, once he was off of the road he was building, and clearly in trouble, STOP and get help. It would not have taken much to get it pulled back to the road, but the inexperienced operator kept trying, and ended up rolling down the mountain.

You are absolutely right about the homeowner angle. I do not know if that is what happened here or not, but a few miles from my house there is a D-9L laying on the side of a similar mountain for the same reason. Been there since about 2005. Property owner thought the local contractors wanted too much money to build him a road, so he bought a D-9L at Ritchie Brothers and started himself.
He slipped off on a big rock, and rolled about 200 to 300 feet down the side of the mountain. I am sure his family wishes he would have left it up to a professional.

I also know of another operator on permanant disability with a broken back for the same reason. And he was a many year experienced dozer hand, but with no experience on steep hills in the rock. Did the same thing with a D-8N, but only went a short ways down the mountain. It was far enough to get a broken back though.

Leave the dangerous work to those with the experience to get it done safely.

Trakwork
10-02-2010, 02:38 AM
Wow... no disrespect to the dead, but what an idiot. Here is a similar roll over

http://californiadozeroperatorsgroup.org/colorado_fire_fatality_report.pdf

I'm surprised the machine in the video at youtube totally fell apart, no chance. Accidents on slopes happen, I had a close on one myself on icy soil that only stopped from the ripper catching the trunk of a Ponderosa pine, I had my blade down but wouldn't cut ... scary.

DirtHauler
10-02-2010, 05:00 AM
While tragic they are also tools to educate. Excavators in similar situation: YouTube - Excavator Crash CAT 330D crane Accident Driver Killed Bagger Unfall Pelle Koparka Excavadora Makina (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgUeaOQ9ypI)
claims to have been also a fatality.

jimmyjack
10-02-2010, 08:36 AM
I didn't want to post it on the forum for obvious reasons. I was wondering a couple of things after watching it though. First the back story...

The name of it is " Dozer rolls down a mountain" on youtube. My first thought was does this guy have the first clue of what he is doing ? Answer....No. Secondly I see he was trying to push very large boulders down the slope and I mean slope. I don't have anymore information other than the video. It was shot in Ca.

Unfortunately the operator of this bulldozer lost his life doing something very foolish. For that may he rest in peace. Still I thought. Why take the chance if you don't know what you're doing. Sadly this sort of thing happens all the time. Harry the home owner ,wants to save some money. Rents a piece of equipment {Knowing full well** he doesn't have a clue how powerful it is. Then destroys something,kills someone or self.

This is why we have HEAVY EQUIPMENT OPERATORS as a trained,skilled group of folks who know what to do. Now, I've both seen,done & heard of things that weren't safe. This video top's the cake on unsafe operation on any scale...

i posted this video about a month ago , it got removed ......but thats besides the point

Aliate
10-02-2010, 10:14 AM
While tragic they are also tools to educate. Excavators in similar situation: YouTube - Excavator Crash CAT 330D crane Accident Driver Killed Bagger Unfall Pelle Koparka Excavadora Makina (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgUeaOQ9ypI)
claims to have been also a fatality.

amen to that, until now I had no idea an excavator that big could slide like that....

DPete
10-02-2010, 10:28 AM
RIP but clearly he had no clue what he was doing or the limitations of a dozer

powerjoke
10-02-2010, 05:06 PM
A couple of things bother me about this Dozer video.....

1. The camera shifted away from the Machine when it started rolling (giving the operator time to exit the machine)

2. The camera man was not any more emotional or excited than he was

3. They call the machine a D9 and it is clearly not.

4. I want to believe it was a setup and there was no-one inside the machine.

I hope/Beleive it was a setup.....maybe for an insurance check??


Pj

OCR
10-02-2010, 11:35 PM
Wow... no disrespect to the dead, but what an idiot. Here is a similar roll over

http://californiadozeroperatorsgroup.org/colorado_fire_fatality_report.pdf

That's interesting that you found and posted that fire fatality report, Trakwork... nice job.

Here's some discussion about the incident, from a couple years ago, here on HEF.

The thread starts here:

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?t=5819





The fellows name was Matt Will... May he rest in peace.


Dozer accident that took Matt Will:
It's a rather long thread, so if you want just the discussion, start at post #85, at the URL below.

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?t=5819&page=6



OCR

JoeinTX
10-02-2010, 11:40 PM
Never seen the vid before and didn't know it had been posted here or anywhere for that matter.

Watched it. Looks like a recent model JD all right, not a Cat.

The cascade down the mountainside looks real, allright. The motions and terrain make me think it an actual piece of real equipment tumbling down a slope.

Don't know who was shooting the thing.

The chopper reaction toward the end, over the exact terrain captured earlier in the vid, makes me think it a real occurrence. Any and everything to prove the opposite appreciated....

Trakwork
10-03-2010, 12:23 AM
Thanks OCR... I never knew Matt Will, what a sad story. .I have thought of joining Calfire, as a contractor, but I have fought only one fire with a Terex 8240 and was amazed at how fast the fire moved. I would only cut in fire breaks at a safe distance, no point of injury or worse losing you're life.

OCR
10-03-2010, 01:01 AM
Thanks OCR... I never knew Matt Will, what a sad story. .I have thought of joining Calfire, as a contractor, but I have fought only one fire with a Terex 8240 and was amazed at how fast the fire moved. I would only cut in fire breaks at a safe distance, no point of injury or worse losing you're life.
You're welcome, Trakwork.

Well, the first fire we went to, we took our old 8230... lol



Here's a few more videos on YouTube, called "Dozer Boss"... some rather good, some rather mediocre... guess you can pick and choose.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=023B8213E39B3D29&feature=bf




OCR

Trakwork
10-03-2010, 01:32 AM
Great videos OCR. I will be viewing all of them.. book marked ! Thanks... watched the first one, what a professional effort those guys do. If ever I do that for Calfire first thing i'm doing is putting grouser bars on, i like a dozer that grips hard.

thebaz
10-03-2010, 05:56 AM
A couple of things bother me about this Dozer video.....

1. The camera shifted away from the Machine when it started rolling (giving the operator time to exit the machine)

2. The camera man was not any more emotional or excited than he was

3. They call the machine a D9 and it is clearly not.

4. I want to believe it was a setup and there was no-one inside the machine.

I hope/Beleive it was a setup.....maybe for an insurance check??


Pj

I'm with you on this one. I know I am being optimistic in this case, but like you, I am hoping this is a setup. I was expecting some kind of banter in the background and at least some expletives during the rollover. The time stamping on the video looks a little suspect, although it could be legit. It seems very strange that the dozer rollover was caught on video only after it was rolling with an obvious break in filming at the crucial moment.
I sure hope it is a fake, that is an awful way to die, (not that there is a great way)
Baz

95zIV
10-03-2010, 09:07 AM
I sure hope it is a fake, that is an awful way to die, (not that there is a great way)
Baz

Oh yeah there is, when I go, I want to be like my grandfather, peaceful and in his sleep.






Not screaming like the passengers in his car.

I'm glad someone brought up the camera just going away from the machine like that right before the roll started. The machine is really moving before the camera gets back on it.

thebaz
10-03-2010, 09:19 AM
[QUOTE=95zIV;255952]Oh yeah there is, when I go, I want to be like my grandfather, peaceful and in his sleep.


Not screaming like the passengers in his car.




an oldie but a goody. LOL

Trakwork
10-03-2010, 12:19 PM
A couple of things bother me about this Dozer video.....

1. The camera shifted away from the Machine when it started rolling (giving the operator time to exit the machine)

2. The camera man was not any more emotional or excited than he was

3. They call the machine a D9 and it is clearly not.

4. I want to believe it was a setup and there was no-one inside the machine.

I hope/Beleive it was a setup.....maybe for an insurance check??


Pj

Looked like the camera holders knew nothing about equipment, possibly just on lookers, persons in the area, residents, campers, who knows. The operator for whatever stupid reasons, pushes the rocks and then finds himself wondering how to get out of the bad position, at that point the camera crew appears to have decided to stop filming , who knows why? then the camera is quickly turned back on the dozer as it rolls.
Just guessing of course, but there were two men on the top of the hill, one the operator , the machine a Deere , and an on looker.. my guess maybe a land scaper/contractor wanting a few large rocks and the operator totally ignorant of the dangers involved. maybe the camera crew was down below to haul the rocks away? either way not real smart.

digger242j
10-03-2010, 04:30 PM
i posted this video about a month ago , it got removed ......but thats besides the point

Are you saying you posted it here? :confused:

jimmyjack
10-03-2010, 08:17 PM
Are you saying you posted it here? :confused:

yup , posted it and the same day it was removed , forgot who took it down said it says the guy dies so he was removing it, but i put it up to get this type of discussion going , oh well , glad other people have seen it and hopefully got something out of it

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?t=18857

shooterm
10-03-2010, 08:38 PM
In my younger years at Camp Pendelton I did around the same thing coming off a road into a firebreak. I left my blade up alittle to long and started to slide down the fire break as I slowly unfroze. I slowed it down enuff by getting my blade down and pulling track steer/using blade I cant even remeber. Single most stupid thing I've ever done that video really creeps me out. Its to bad this operator didnt get a 2nd chance.

thebaz
10-03-2010, 08:44 PM
While tragic they are also tools to educate. Excavators in similar situation: YouTube - Excavator Crash CAT 330D crane Accident Driver Killed Bagger Unfall Pelle Koparka Excavadora Makina (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgUeaOQ9ypI)
claims to have been also a fatality.

I was traumatized for days after seeing that video. Some mistakes are so final.

powerjoke
10-03-2010, 08:44 PM
I guess that sort of thing happens when there are too many moderators and there is no communication.....same thing happened to me one time ;)

It does some like the kind of thing that would be over the imaginary, moving boundries and lines here on HEF :rolleyes: ......never mind trying to educate someone by allowing a vid like this that might save a members life someday by learning from example.

Pj

digger242j
10-03-2010, 09:41 PM
yup , posted it and the same day it was removed ,

Sorry, I didn't look far enough back. I'll take the blame for missing that. You said a month, so I didn't look much further, but I see now it was back in June. Time flies...

And Pj, the mods work as a team, communicate quite frequently, and we don't make a habit of second guessing each other. Not all judgements can be totally objective. There's plenty of gray area, and we get a lot more compliments than we do complaints.

But thanks for your input.

DirtHauler
10-03-2010, 09:44 PM
I was traumatized for days after seeing that video. Some mistakes are so final.

i actually just ment to post a link and not embed it but it autoembeded. I know seeing these two vids and reading about the Calfire accident that my definition of "safe" has shifted a bit. No warning your in trouble just bam your on your own. A local guy was working on a steep fill and kept telling us he would be fine, that if he started to slide he would just drop the rippers to stop himself.... Then the whole fill slid, so sinkin in the rippers did not do a thing, was like an avalance. He survived but broke his back. I think about that anytime i see someone where "I am not going out there".

JDOFMEMI
10-03-2010, 10:08 PM
I remember a lengthy discussion on the one with the 330 going down the slope a while back. Maybe a year or so. I searched, but did not find it. It would be good reading for some of the recent members and those who missed it the first time.

When I get on my hi speed connection, I will search for it again.

There is also a full length video, 4 or 6 minutes, on youtube.

thebaz
10-03-2010, 11:53 PM
Yeah,
I viewed that vid of the 330 when that thread was alive. Although a horrible thing to witness, it sure brings home the reality of what we do and how it can all be over in a second. I personally hate working on big slopes especially with a track loader as it only takes a rock outcrop or old slippery log that is invisible under grass and you are out of control. No steering, no brakes.........:shf

JDOFMEMI
10-04-2010, 12:09 AM
Found it

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?t=15684

This is a good refresher on slope work.

DirtHauler
10-04-2010, 04:24 AM
I was traumatized for days after seeing that video. Some mistakes are so final.

here is the Real video that shows the 8 mins that led up to that accident.

YouTube - accidente en autopista mexico tuxpam excavadora 330.3gp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RPfkldzPQs)

powerjoke
10-04-2010, 09:56 AM
i'm not saying that seat belts would help either outcome but......why wouldnt a guy wear a seatbelt especially if working on terrain such as this.

it bothers me that the door is open on the hoe too, but oh' well

Pj

DPete
10-04-2010, 10:34 AM
Much like the dozer vid the hoe just didn't quit to get help and passed the point of no return. A tow at the right time would have prevented both disasters.

Tracklayer
10-04-2010, 01:21 PM
I was a little surprised that the earlier thread with the video was locked. The rollover was a tragedy, but the video was not gory. We talk about the details of accidents on this forum, so I donít see how that is much different from a video showing a dozer roll, but no actual human involvement. And the video does raise some interesting questions about how the accident happened and how it might have been prevented.

Some have wondered if the accident was staged in some way. If you stop and start the video several times during the roll sequence, and watch close, I think it conveys a more graphic depiction of the roll and disintegration of the dozer. In the end, the blade flies off, sailing high into the air. At the very end, you can see one track (just the chains and grousers) running free down the hill like a rolling tire. Interestingly, it does not look like the ROPS came apart. The operator may have not been belted, and may therefore have been thrown out at some point. But if the operator had been wearing a seatbelt, I wonder if he might have survived the roll, assuming that the ROPS held together.

I get the impression that rolling those rocks might have been just a little horseplay. What other purpose could there have been? Even if you had to get them removed from where they were, sending them for what might be over a mile roll seems a bit careless, considering that some person might somehow end up in their path.

The people doing the video do seem rather mysterious. If rolling the boulders was just horseplay the video people might have been in on the plan and taking video to show the spectacular results. But their reaction to the dozer roll does seem almost as though they do not realize what is happening. I think the missing video might just be coincidence. They might have decided that there was no point in running the video until a rock came down, and just then, the dozer came down.

I speculate that the operator got the dozer so steep that it could not back up. With the weight of the blade, and the steep downgrade, the tractor would have been front-heavy. The tracks would be loaded up on their idlers, and as they slipped, they would dig down and worsen the angle. Slipping the tracks, trying to back up, would bounce the dozer around on the loose, gravely / rocky soil. Once the machine was up on its tiptoes, it would be easy for it to swing/fall to one side or the other. And once that happened, it would be sideways to the slope, and the momentum from the swing would begin the side roll.

It would be interesting to learn the actual details of this accident.

qball
10-04-2010, 08:31 PM
that was brutal to watch, and, if he was belted in, he was dead in 4 or 5 rolls.

slagpot
10-05-2010, 03:07 PM
Didn't think this post would fly. In any case at least we got the real story on it and learned something from it.

Never operate a bulldozer on a sandy steep slope and then turn ,while the blade is in the air,while doing something you know you shouldn't be doing in the first place. {Complete utter run on sentence structure.**

Slagpot

thebaz
10-05-2010, 06:30 PM
Oh yeah, and if you are doing something that is stupid enough to warrant someone videoing it, have another think if it is going to end in tears.

d9ripper
10-15-2010, 08:56 AM
I doubt that was set up he clearly had no experience with operating a excavator with the boom al the way in the way it was he should of had his boom out and the bucket in the ground to give somne stability once it started rolling there was no stopping it just sad what a waste of a nice machine and im sure a nice guy!!

logger mike
10-17-2010, 10:24 AM
The dozer video you have all reffered to is definately real. It ocurred in Lassen County California not far from the Nevada line off hwy 395. The machine as some have stated was a John Deere, unbelievably this machine still works in Nevada somewhere. Yes the operator is no longer with us, i have seen the Lassen and washoe county nv coroner photos as it was iffy whether it was in nv or ca, the folks that filmed it had no clue what was going on they were just traveling on 395. The part that always got to me is when he gets up on that rock the guy watching him doesnt try to stop him. And i also knew Matt Will as well thats all im willing to say about his accident. Both preventable, definately.

Wawrecker
10-25-2010, 01:33 PM
I believe the following link is the accident report for the referanced video.

http://www.msha.gov/FATALS/2000/FTL00M17.HTM

andoman
10-25-2010, 04:43 PM
Much like the dozer vid the hoe just didn't quit to get help and passed the point of no return. A tow at the right time would have prevented both disasters.

+1,000,000

I was watching the hoe thinking the same thing. The machine began to slide and he caught it with the bucket (on a steeper portion of the slope then the initial starting point of the slide) and tried to adjust the machine instead of hooking up for a tow. I think I would have bailed after it stopped sliding the first time but hind sight is 20/20. :beatsme

Tracklayer
10-25-2010, 05:38 PM
Wawrecker,

Thanks for posting that accident report. It does provide insight to the accident. The operator probably would have avoided the roll if he could have kept the dozer length aligned with the slope. But as the slope got steeper, he did not have the traction to back up. As the tracks slipped, the dozer swung down sideways to the slope. The operator may not have expected that to happen, and it probably happend fast. And once the dozer had fallen into that sideways position, it easily rolled sideways.

The best course of action would have been to stop and get a tow when he found he could not back up. But it is hard to give up if you think you can work your way out of the problem.

DirtHauler
10-25-2010, 08:37 PM
I believe the following link is the accident report for the referanced video.

http://www.msha.gov/FATALS/2000/FTL00M17.HTM

Thank you for that post. I wonder if MSHA knew about the video.