Western Star

[Nac]

So what do you guys think of Western Star. I finally got my Solid Waste lisence so have to get a triaxle roll off or hooklift. I am stuck between Western Star and Volvo. Was looking at a Vovlo VHD or a Western Star 4900 SA/ FA. Both with similar spec. 20,000 or 22,800 fronts 52,000 rears and 20,000 lift axle 18 0r 8LL trans 450+ HP motor 75,000 roll off or 65,000 hooklift. Let me know what you think. Around year there are to big waste companys one has a fleet of Western Star and the other has a fleet of Volvo. Any info or suggestions would be appricated.

[2004F550]

didn't you already buy a volvo tridem drive? or something like that?.....But anyway to your question I have no personal experience about either but I've heard stars are good trucks. On the other hand a paving company from around here had to wait 4 weeks for a pwr window part for one of there Volvo's. I would go with the western if I was choosing, don't forget to check out KW, its a tough truck.

anyway if you go roll-off, go for the 75,000 lb hoist, we have a 75 and it will do more than the 65 can for sure. I don't have any experience with hooklifts.

[cat320]

well my brotherinlaw worked for a waste hauler as a mechanic and they had a fleet of 20 plus trucks hauling trailers, there is another guy in NH here ans he has a mega fleet of westerns for tractors.

[Ford LT-9000]

I thought you already ordered the Volvo ?

My choice would be a T-800 but second choice would be a Star and if I was going with a Star it would be the 4900SA. For what you want you want the Logger Chassis with the 20,000lb front you don't need anymore than that. For engines don't skimp on power the C-15 would be the way to go especially if you are going to drag a trailer with another box on the back. Go with a 13 or 18spd Western Star doesn't offer the 8LL actually the 8LL won't take the big power. I don't know if you are going with a tridrive (3 drive axles) like you were thinking of before or a triaxle with a air drop axle.

If you are going with a regular tandem with a drop tag axle then you wouldn't need anymore than 46,000lb Meritors also have double locks.

For suspension and if you want air ride try see if you can get this its a combination walking beam air ride. Its designed in Alberta and its used in the oil fields. The Mack dealers are installing this suspension system on dump trucks so far its working good. www.raydanmfg.com/Air-Link-main.html

[nedly05]

I have limited experience with Western Star but a lot of loggers around here run them and that tells me they are a tough truck. A dealer about an hour south of me has 2 on the lot with the 8LL so it is possible to get that tranny in a Star, however it may limit what motor you could get with it. IMO I would go with the Star, they are a little more expensive but worth every penny. Good luck!

[jazak]

I know a couple of guys that bought them, they say they'll never go back to their Macks. Good well built trucks, couple of the local towns have started to buy them.

[Hydro101]

my cousin runs about 10 or 12 of them..

http://www.achesse.com/


overall hes been happy, way better than the macks hes had in the past. but hes due to order some more and he doesn't know whether to try petes or continue with the stars...

[jazak]

Almost forgot to add that I talked to the dealer down in Flanders a while ago. He priced me out a 4900 SA tri-axle with the C3 CAT and dump body, all the extras; it cam out to be around $150K with all taxes, fees & extended warrenty.

[Nac]

I had to order in for the Volvo but had to put it on Hold Because was unsure of when my lisence was coming. No I would rather get a truck that is built so I do not have to pay 8,500 for the EPA and the 2-3% increase for an 07. There is a truck dealer Hudson County Motors who has a Volvo VHD (Foward Axle instock ready to go and a Western Star 4900 FA in stock. I was leaning toward the Western Star but wanted a 4900 SA I would have to order one and that is 3-6 monts away. So will see tommarow when the dealer sends me the spec on the 2 trucks he has built sitting in the lot.

[NateV]

Almost forgot to add that I talked to the dealer down in Flanders a while ago. He priced me out a 4900 SA tri-axle with the C3 CAT and dump body, all the extras; it cam out to be around $150K with all taxes, fees & extended warrenty.

Why is a 16yr old pricing out a $150k truck?

[jazak]

Who said I'm 16?? My son may be but not me.

[NateV]

Sorry, read onne of your old post wrong.

[jazak]

NAC, to bad you can't get the SA because they it would be much liked since we have to deal with all the surrounding buildings, car, small roads, ext here in NJ. Also what if you bought one prebuilt in another state, say NY or Mass.? I know a couple big truck guys out there who have some nice stuff sitting on the lot.

BTW NateV you read a thread my son started asking about wich setup would work best for him here in NJ. In several years you may see him posting up some pics of his equipment. As long as everything goes well and something else doesn't come up. :thumbsup

[digger242j]

BTW NateV you read a thread my son started ...

We do allow more than one member per family, and they can each have their own name too! :)

[Ford LT-9000]

The FA version is just as good you won't loose that much turning radius but the one thing you will have to get used to is the hood. Depending on the hoist you are going with Hook or conventional rails is going to dictate the wheelbase. With a conventional rail system probably looking at a truck with a 230-244" wheelbase which isn't too bad h*ll some truck tractors have a 260wb.

If you can't get a Star look at Kenworth T-800 in my mind a better truck over anything else. May cost a little more but one of the toughest trucks on the planet.

[rino1494]

We have a Volvo tri-axle dump and it has been a great truck. The only gripe about it is that Volvo rears are expensive. We recently replaced the front rear this past winter and it cost $6,000 for a new rear. Luckily we can do all of our own repairs.

[SunServicesLLC]

Have two volvos and two KW t800's like them both buying another volvo as we speak KW's are just too much money esp when paying in full.
NAC let me know if you have any questions
Brian

[jazak]

We do allow more than one member per family, and they can each have their own name too! :)

Thanks for the info, most sites won't let you.

[Ford LT-9000]

You guys must pay more for Kenworth trucks in the US than we do ?

I guess with B.C. and Alberta buying Kenworth trucks for logging and oil fields Kenworth must give better deals. Kenworth is pretty well all what is used in logging and you look at the tar sands in Alberta Kenworth dominates the brands.

I looked over Volvo VHD pretty closely when the lumber yard bought 2 of them. The first thing is the odd T ride suspension it looks like a odd version of Mack's camel back. The second thing I noticed was the cabs on the trucks looked cheaply constructed.

If Volvo truck parts are like their marine parts where they are very very expensive that makes repairing the truck even more costly. The other problem with Volvo trucks is they don't offer rear axles heavier than 40s or the ones on dealers lots mainly have 40 rears. You can't run a vocational truck safely with 40 rears they just are not heavy enough especially for any kind of offroad work. A loaded truck in soft ground and 40 rears with locks is bad news your going to hear something snap.

Driving into landfills your always in soft ground any of the rolloff trucks in this area have minimum 44s most of them have 46s with locks. Trucks are also running 11R24.5 rubber with the heaviest treaded tires you can get usually new tread depth of 33/32. Basicially the same tires we run on gravel trucks regular highway truck tires don't cut it.

I would probably buy a 9500 Sterling over a Volvo alteast with the Sterling you can get big power heavier axles. The Volvo your stuck with a 12 litre engine maxed out at 465hp which isn't good. Sterling you can get a C-15 producing the same power and lasts longer. The Sterling is a proven economical priced workhorse. Can get a 9500 Sterling dump with heavy axles big power for 140,000 dollars CND a T-800 Kenworth is around 150,000.

The area also has lots of Volvo Articulated trucks running around the bush and with them you can buy them cheaper than other brands but when it comes to parts and repairs its "I Got Ya". Volvo has some of the most expensive parts even OEM O rings cost a fortune. With the marine side of things your paying 40 grand just for a 4.5 litre diesel engine.

[SunServicesLLC]

LT-9000
My volvos have hendriken sp? suspension with 44 rears and around Washington DC anything over 400 hp is more than enough. All of my trucks are roll offs so when they are loaded on average they may have 5-6 tons in the box. The occasional 20 ton box does happen just not enough to need huge rears and huge engines. I also have a Sterling and I think the cab is much worse than the volvos. Just my two cents
Brian

[Nac]

The Volvo VHD they have in stock now has 435 HP 8LL Trans 20 front 20 lift 52 rears

[Ford LT-9000]

All you carry is 5-6 tons in a box :confused:

Most Rolloff trucks here are maxed out to gvw of 26,100KGs or 57,545lbs the trucks probably heavier than licensed gvw but we have no highway scales. A 40 yard bin of busted up used drywall is heavy as h*ll the truck is sucking wind pulling the box on the truck. All what gets used around here is 40 yard or 20 yards for the real small jobs.

Any gravel truck or rolloff truck with less than 400hp its a real drag we have to many steep grades to pull. Its tiring driving a low powered truck because your constantly shifting trying to maintain any kind of speed.

I do agree Sterling Cabs are on the cheaper side but the rest of the driveline is tough. Sterling kept with the same thinking as Ford the old Louisvilles cabs are a little rattley but the rest of the truck was just as good as a KW.

On edit to add more

I wonder why they would have a truck spec'ed with 52's it must have been a redimix truck chassis they are a little overkill especially when legal weight on a set of tandems is 37,000lbs. If you break a set of 46,000lb Rockwells (meritor) your abusing the truck. Lowbed tractors running 575-600hp grossing 140,000lbs run 46s and never had any axle problems. A 12L engine putting out 435hp and 8LL wouldn't even come close to straining a set of 46s.

[SunServicesLLC]

The 5-6 ton cans come from various jobsites. When its just C & D debris from commercial or residential contractors thats usually on average what they weigh. I have one company that will only use 40yd cans and that in the last year have had one over 5 tons. We do get heavy ones but that may be 4 out of 35 done in a day.
Brian

NAC what kind of suspension all volvo guys have told me that the T ride is very pricey to repair(bushing springs etc...)

[Ford LT-9000]

The T ride is similar to Mack Camel back and its expensive to repair if you can go with old faithfull suspension systems like Hendrickson Walking Beam or go with the super smooth riding solid mount suspension :D

If you go with solid mount suspension you will loose weight because your guts will be churning from the nice smooth ride. Definatly no stopping at McDonalds for lunch LOL.

For a rolloff truck got to have something stable I know when I was tilting up a full 40 yard box of wet garbage was a little nerve racking. Truck used to sway side to side pulling ahead with the box up. The two trucks I drove the most was Mack with camel back suspension and a 9000 Ford with Hendrickson spring both trucks pretty much the same. The Mack rode rougher with camel back. Broke the cable on the Mack pulling to hard on a heavy box oops. The Ford had electric over hydraulic controls that took a little getting used to the Mack had manual hyraulic levers both trucks had the hoist controls inside the cab operated.

[Nac]

I am waiting for the full spec the dealer was suposed to fax it today. Will give him a call tommarow. In NJ a tandem can run 70,000 GVW a triaxle 80,000 GVW this truck (Truck was ordered as a rolloff has the 75,000 hoist mounted allready)is a tandem that is why the 52 rears they are adding the 20 lift axle.

[Nac]

Here is a link to the Volvo VHDhttp://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1272050&guid=7E779497E9BB410AB2488AAEF29B5D7D

[jazak]

So you went with the Volvo? How much are those bodies going to cost you?

[Nac]

Not yet waiting for an exact number on the truck tommarow. The truck has the hoist mounted on it allready.

[Ford LT-9000]

The Volvo looks good the only thing I would be concerned about is the 10spd they are usually geared a little on the tall side. I noticed the dealer has a few Stars with hoists but they all have the Mercedes power not worth the headache. Get good fuel mileage but the engine brake doesn't hold worth a damn.

I'am surprised you guys are allowed to gross a tandem that high the trucks got to be lacking brakes. We load a tandem to 60,000lbs you have to watch the brakes using the JAKE is a must. Had 18 ton on a rolloff and I was really worried about braking power.

If you do buy the Volvo make sure you have the dealer change the front tires so they match the axle rating 385s don't have enough load rating should be running 425/65R22.5 the DOT will ding you for not enough tire capacity when you have a 20,000lb front axle. Also if the size listed for the drive tires on the truck won't carry enough weight either not to be nit picky but its little things you have to consider. If the tires don't even come close to the axle rating why have it. If the tires are 12R-24.5 your fine.

Better get your financing ready the Volvo might be sporting your company name. Probably wouldn't paint it your company colors untill your sure you like the truck you leave it basic white for 6 months or how ever long to see how the truck will work for you.

[jazak]

I see it has the roll-off but does it have any bins/bodies for it?

[SunServicesLLC]

The boxes/bodies or dumpster as we call it are bought usually from the manufacturer direct. A 30yd can runs about 3800 delivered. I remember the day i only had to keep track of 6, now its well over 200 in just two years.
Brian

[Ford LT-9000]

Thats allot of bins would be a little hard to remember where you left 200 of them.

Most bins are pretty well built to the same standards or they are around here as all conventional rail trucks are outside rail and there is no rollers on the rails its steel on steel. The winch cable has a hook on the end with a D ring on the box. If a person searches hard enough usually you can find used bins kicking around good for the customers that are hard on bins like scrap metal hauling.

One day I was loading scrap cars into a 40 yard bin punching them down with the hoe on the rubber tired hoe then the side of the bin started bulging out :Banghead

Had to take the backhoe around the side at the door end push the side back in and cross chain the back to keep the door closed :bouncegri

[LaLaMan]

So how hard is it to break into the carting business? Id think that between the truck, dumpsters, EPA license, you would have to have an awful lot of work lined up just to cover costs.