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digger242j
10-19-2006, 08:21 PM
I've operated a number of different skid steers, but I must admit, I've never read the owner's manual for any of them. There are a lot of experienced people here, both operators and those who are more involved in the technical aspects. I'd like a clarification...

There are a couple of guys on the job who say that you should run a skid steer with the engine wide open--that to do otherwise is bad for the machine. One mentioned that is was supposedly hard on the hydraulic pumps to be run at less than full throttle. I can't see that being true.

Certainly, the engines are desigend, and governed, to run at some maximun RPM setting. If you're running a long distance, or digging into hard material, go ahead and run it at full throttle. It's desigened to do it, and in the case of working the machine hard, it's better than lugging the engine down and stalling it out. However, if you're handling loose material, like sand or gravel, and putting a quarter of a bucket here, and another quarter of a bucket five feet away, or doing fine work like handling material on pallets with forks, my personal opinion is that it's unnecessarily abusive to the machine to have the engine screaming away at max RPMs. All that expensive stuff inside there has a finite life span, and the more times it goes around, the closer it is to its final revolution. Throttle back to some setting that still allows you sufficient power and speed, but that's easier on the equipment.

Yes, you can run it wide open, but there's ne reason you must run it wide open.

This came up agian today. One operator was moving pallets of concrete block. The other guy commented that he should be faster, "and he's going to hurt the machine too".

I'm open minded enough to know that I don't know it all. I could be wrong about this too. Anybody got an opinion? And can you cite from an owner's manual, or share the opinion of a professional equipment engineer or mechanic?

Steve Frazier
10-19-2006, 09:37 PM
Most newer machines are equipped with a foot throttle as well as a hand throttle. My Cat does, and I run as I would a truck, using only the amount of throttle necessary to get the job done. I use the hand throttle only when running a hydraulic attachment, and the use the rpm that gets the job done.

Jeff D.
10-19-2006, 09:40 PM
Anybody got an opinion? And can you cite from an owner's manual, or share the opinion of a professional equipment engineer or mechanic?I've been told the same thing(from other operators only), That they're designed to be run at 100% all the time. I personally don't agree with that though.

I think they can be run at 100% continuously, without undue damage, but that doesn't mean they "need" to be run at 100%. I haven't any concrete info though, pro or con to my own opinion.

When I start mine up, I'll idle it for about a minute, then throttle up to about 1/4 and start moving the machine around( with no work involved) as it warms up I'll slowly increase the %, but normally stop at about 3/4 throttle. If I need the extra I'll put it upto 100%. If it's really cold mine will have a groan in the hydraulics at low rpms that's annoying, so I'll let it warm up longer, or bump it up to about 1/2 throttle earlier to avoid it.

Engines don't need to be run at 100% to avoid damage, nor do hydraulic pumps. Cylinders and hydraulic motors have a constantly varying flow anyways, so they're not affected.

I'm not sure about hydrostatic drive pumps, but guess they're similar.

I can see it if the hydraulic fluid temps were getting too high at lower rpm's, increasing the rpm's may help by increasing flow through the cooler. I've never had my fluid temp light come on while running at less than 100% yet, so..........:beatsme

digger242j
10-19-2006, 09:48 PM
I purposely didn't mention the Cat foot pedal, just because I think it's consistant with my opinion, and didn't want to prejuduce anyone else's reply.
(But I figured I could bring it up as a rebuttal point if I needed to.)

And, Jeff, it seems like you're thinking the same way I am. As far as fluid temps, I hadn't considered the flow through the cooler, but if you're not working it as hard to begin with, does it really get any hotter?

Jeff D.
10-19-2006, 10:09 PM
but if you're not working it as hard to begin with, does it really get any hotter?It wouldn't think so if you're not working it hard.

I was thinking if someone were working it hard, at lower RPM's. I think fluid temps might be higher then, but am not sure.

I know on my trucks, the oil temps are higher at lower rpm's/max power than at high rpm's/max power because of the flow issue. Exhaust temps also.

I was just extrapolating that out to include hydraulic fluid too........possibly wrongly.

It's hard too tell with only the "Dummy lights" in my skid steer. Someone with actual temp gauges might be able to let us know.

Bob Horrell
10-19-2006, 10:17 PM
I have found that most skidsteers run real well (and more efficiently) at somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 throttle. Somewhere in that range is where max torque resides and this is what really gets the work done. Running at higher throttle only wastes fuel and really doesn't produce more work. There are a few exceptions. When working on a steep hillside carrying full buckets of dirt to the top, I found full throttle worked better. I probably only use full throttle less than 5% of the time. Since I have foot controls, there can't be a foot throttle. I have used pilot controls with foot throttles and loved them. Cat is the best in that regard (pilot controls with foot throttle).

tylermckee
10-20-2006, 02:43 AM
I run them a little below full throttle simply because it beats me up a little less, if im running around on smooth ground for a distance i'll crank it up though.

Blademan
10-20-2006, 03:05 AM
Personally , I run them wide open . I want 100% power , 100% of the time . It makes getting the feel of it much easier then trying to , say , dig into a pile till it starts to bog and then trying to give it more throttle . I find by that time it's too late , especially if it's a hand throttle only . Also , to me , if you take ' working the throttle ' out of the equation , it gives you more time to concentrate on whatever you're doing . You just go .

I almost even do this on my grader ( cat 14H ) . I set the electronic cruise at around 1400-1500 RPMs , so even when I slow down or stop to reverse , I have excellent hydraulic response . Makes doing everything that much faster and easier , especially when I'm lifting the blade , turning the circle , side-shifting and cranking the steering all at the same time .

Squizzy246B
10-20-2006, 07:13 AM
This came up agian today. One operator was moving pallets of concrete block. The other guy commented that he should be faster, "and he's going to hurt the machine too".

Well thats a big load of Bollocks...:eek: but it WAS true.

The modern multi stage (or combination) hydraulic pumps fitted to compact machine will produce little more force, if any, at full power than at idle. They will move faster, they will provide more tractive effort but they will not produce anymore hydraulic pressure at higher Rpm.

Increasing the pump speed will increase the volume but not the hydraulic power.

Manufacturer's don't fit foot throttles for the novelty. Use a foot throttle and improve your work with greater control and also use less fuel. I use both depending on the task. The progressive nature of well setup pilot controls also compliments a foot throttle.

I havent seen a wheel loader run constant full throttle so I don't see why a modern skid should. Its just a habit from old piston/constant displacement pumps. The 3044 mitsupillar engine in my skid is used extensively in a lot of different machinery and mostly its variable speed. Constant high speed is sometimes necassary on an auxilliary circuit that has constant displacement gear pump or the like.

We all have operating habits...for whatever reasons...but the reasons behind them should be based on solid engineering facts.

Having just read about a zillion differnt placards and stickers...well maybe about eight....on my new mini-ex...I'm sure a constant speed setup engine in a piece of machinery would have plenty of documentation and instruction to say that the engine will be damaged if you don't run it flat out "despite the fact we put a foot throttle in":rolleyes:

Ford LT-9000
10-20-2006, 03:08 PM
On most equipment with a hand operated throttle I usually crank it all the way up and turn it back a little. There is no need to run maxed out unless your digging into something hard. Skid steers should have a decellerator like a dozer seeing as most new skids don't use yankem sticks.

If skid steers had a transmission with gears like a loader or rubber tired backhoe they could make it so you can have variable throttle positions while travelling.

will_gurt
10-20-2006, 10:26 PM
Mr. Digger Sir,

I can remember having this conversation today with you. The person in question was told that to run at less than full throttle would damage the pumps by the delivering dealer. Remember the old 1840 that was replaced by this 60XT. The 1840 had over 4000 hours on it with no real damage to the pumps. it was consistantly ran at way less than1/2 throttle.

Now would an air cooled skidder have to run at an elevated RPM, just to keep enough air flowing.

digger242j
10-21-2006, 01:06 AM
...but it WAS true.


...so I don't see why a modern skid should. Its just a habit from old piston/constant displacement pumps.

So, could you elaborate on why it was true? :confused: (I was on their New Holland 555 today, and it's got to be what, 15 years old? Do you remember, Will? Its predecessor, of the same type, did have to have the pumps changed at one point.)

Squizzy246B
10-21-2006, 05:59 AM
So, could you elaborate on why it was true? :confused:

Ok..you asked for it...but so I don't confuzzle you anymore and to explain properly to others; I need to quantify and explain a couple of things when just explaining the operation of constant displacement versus variable displacement.

1. radial piston pumps can be constant or variable displacement depending on the design. Most commonly they are variable delivery:confused: which means they can vary the direction of delivery whilst still spinning in the same direction by changing the position of the swash plate. By doing this they can also vary the volume. A fixed head (no swash plate) will be constant displacement.

2. We need to set aside a couple of things to compare a constant to a variable; firstly most modern skids will have load sensing valves in some circuits..usually the drive system at least. This is often coupled to the ECM thus the governor can receive electric inputs to continue to manage the engine under load. This "helps" but is no help to the topic here its just you need to know other factors are at play...so forget that for the time being:yup You can also forget relief and bypass valves for the minute...

3. All these systems have physical limits no matter what design they have an ability to operate within design parameters. Sometimes...us ugly operators will apply loads to the system which exceed the physical constraints...its just a fact of life and it will be reached no matter what the design.

4. Take a gear type constant delivery pump and apply a load to the output...such as a hydraulic cylinder. Basic physics tell us that to get anymore work out of that circuit the only way we can do it is to make those gears turn faster..its as simple as that. Additionally, when a load is applied to the circuit that load is applied to the gears and tends to make the pump slow down and then the governor trys to up the fuel to maintain the desired engine speed. Essentially to get the most work out of it you have to run it as fast as possible within the design capabilities.

5. With a variable displacement pump when a load is applied to the circuit the swash plate in the pump will shift to increase the flow, loading the engine and requiring more power, which the governor accounts for. The flow will increase until the limits of the pump, governor, fuel pump etc are reached.

The reality is that its not so chalk and cheese as my simplistic explanations above and designers add more and more complexities to the system each day to take care of various deficiencies that the simple systems above have.

Bottom line is a modern skid running at about 50 to 60% is gunna do all its gunna do in terms of straight up hydraulic power (lift) Increasing the engine speed will; a) make it go faster b) will provide more power to auxilliary circuits which are on gear type pumps or c) where the demand on one pump is to mutiple circuits whose demand exceeds the output of the pump at a given speed regardless of the pump type. c) above is why we now see many machines with 2, 3 or even 4 pumps.

The quality of engine management we have today is really exceptional and I can't see that running your skid at less than flat out will harm it...quite the opposite really IMHO...but then again engineering school was 25 years :eek: ago:wink2

I hope this helps but I must say that I am generalising. I hope somebody who currently hands on in skid engineering can contribute to this thread.

will_gurt
10-21-2006, 07:50 AM
Mr. Digger Sir,

The current NH555 is a 1994 model. Has around 3500 hours and had regular oil/filter changes.

The antique old NH555 was around a 1989 model with a Perkins in it. Them blasted pumps!!!! were removed and rebuilt twice in 4000 hours.The first was at +/- 2400 hours. the second was around 3900 hours along withthe drive motors. I attribute this to a very total lack of proper maintenance. I can't remember if any oil changes let alone filters ever back then. The super thinking "it is running so no to any maintenance " mentallity then applied.

Crazy how a few pleas and several thousand dollars out of the bosses pocket made the change HUH?

Now the boss(not the super) is anal about the oil/filter use. He insists that they are done evey 150 to 200 hours. This resulted in the 1840 having over 4000 hours without any major oil related break down.

Jeff D.
10-21-2006, 12:54 PM
Squizzy, I not disputing any of what you said, but wouldn't that make the statement "Not" true?
The other guy commented that he should be faster, "and he's going to hurt the machine too". I take the statement to say, he's running too slow, and he's hurting the machine in the process of running slow, but it seems you're saying (and I agree)he's not hurting the machine by running slower.:beatsme but you say the statement is true.

Also, I'm not up on modern hydraulic pumps, but from your discription it sounds like the modern variable displacement pump operates similarly to a hydrostatic pump, but without the reverse in fluid flow ability, and the flow volume control being controlled by a govonor instead of by the driver.

Is that correct? It's just so I understand them better/at all.

Tigerotor77W
10-21-2006, 03:03 PM
I hope none of you were hoping I could provide a technical answer to this question... because at the moment, I can't. :(

I know from a fuel consumption and noise standpoint, there's obviously an advantage to foot-throttle machines. But that's not what you're looking for, so until I learn about this stuff, sorry, I know nothing. :crying

Squizzy246B
10-21-2006, 08:10 PM
Squizzy, I not disputing any of what you said, but wouldn't that make the statement "Not" true?

There is a lot of factors at play and I've been with hydraulics (as an engineer) all my working life, but I've only been around skids for like 5-6 years...but here's why: firstly with a constant displacement pump you will definetly need full power to get the full performance (not that that has anything to do with damaging the machine) and secondly;

take the older Bobcats with the Kubota engine. Kubota biggest production line was generators...constant speed engines. If the engine's capability was capable of say 1800 Rpm at 100% then as a genset it would be governed to say 1500 RPM (about 70-80% of what it was capable as in other applications) and whatever speed the frequency of the power output required. Those engines could do like a guzzillion hours flat out. The governor, fuel pump and injectors where set up for full load at that speed. You took the thing up to flat out and put it on load and away it went.

So..all I'm saying is that if the manufacturer didn't fit a foot throttle and told you run the machine flat out (on the governor) thats where it would be happiest and probably provide the longest service life. If the manufacturer fitted a foot throttle and the machine has variable displacement pumps then it certainly isn't going to harm it to run the machine at various different speeds.

Hydrostatic pumps more refers to the control of a pump and system than as to the pump itself. Technically a hydraulic pilot system on a variable displacement pump is a hydrostatic system....a mechanical input to a "variable delivery" (see above) is most commonly called hydrostatic..and would be the steering system on modern trucks.

The thing that I have ommitted is the different control inputs and systems of todays machines. Just ask Steve to pop the cab on his 248 and have a look under the seat.

Squizzy246B
10-21-2006, 08:42 PM
I just read through my B series manuals and couldn't find anything that states any specific speed that the machine should be run at. It says to operate the foot or hand throttle for smooth operation....I'll have to work on the smooth bit:rolleyes:

Cat420
10-21-2006, 08:44 PM
Here's a great page showing how both gear and variable displacement pumps work. The have video and everything. http://science.howstuffworks.com/backhoe-loader8.htm

Squizzy246B
10-21-2006, 09:04 PM
Jeff, I also think that sometimes the term Hydrostatic is used to describe the hydraulic motor not the pump. The drive system on a skid is "hydrostatic"...self explanatory really.

Jeff D.
10-21-2006, 09:12 PM
Ok, thanks guys!!:thumbsup

I've only worked on older equipment(as you knew:wink2 ) and I can understand the workings involved there pretty well, but the modern stuff.......well.

I'm use to the hydrostatic drive pump being a seperate unit, and the hydraulic pump being of the fixed variety(like mine) but possibly feeding the hydrostat unit, with two drive motors, and every control being manuel. Like this: http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showpost.php?p=14693&postcount=3

But it gets pretty complicated on the new stuff doesn't it?!

Having seperate load controls on both the engine and pumps can lead too almost infinate variations.

It is interesting though.:yup

Squizzy246B
10-22-2006, 02:16 AM
You are right Jeff...we have only scratched the surface...His Diggerness screwed it up by putting the word "Proper" in the title....I can't answer to "Proper" but can repeat what I said early to the comments made that you screw up a machine if you don't run it full throttle...what a load Bollocks!

digger242j
10-22-2006, 10:46 AM
You are right Jeff...we have only scratched the surface...His Diggerness screwed it up by putting the word "Proper" in the title....I can't answer to "Proper" but can repeat what I said early to the comments made that you screw up a machine if you don't run it full throttle...what a load Bollocks!

The definition of "proper" is, "1. adapted or appropriate to the purpose or circumstances; fit; suitable: the proper time to plant strawberries. "

Strawberries notwithstanding, I think that defintion fits my use of the word--I mentioned several different sets of circumstances, and questioned whether operating at full throttle was appropriate for all of them. In that respect, I think you've indeed addressed the question. I'm still not sure we've nailed down the specific answer though.


So..all I'm saying is that if the manufacturer didn't fit a foot throttle and told you run the machine flat out (on the governor) thats where it would be happiest and probably provide the longest service life. If the manufacturer fitted a foot throttle and the machine has variable displacement pumps then it certainly isn't going to harm it to run the machine at various different speeds.

Perhaps the question was insufficiently precise to begin with. Obviously, the later models, with variable displacement pumps are a somewhat different animal than the older models with constant displacement pumps. I think we've established beyond question that on the newer models, with foot throttles and variable displacement pumps, it's not really an issue.

Now on the older models, are we assuming that the condition you describe as "happiest and probably provide(ing) the longest service life", is the benchmark? If so, then does running at lower throttle settings result in not reaching that benchmark? Does that in itself constitute an operating method that's "hurting the machine"? Or, is the difference too insignificant to worry about?

As Will mentioned above, the operator in question was told by a person from the dealer not to run at less than full throttle. Nobody has replied here yet in support of that notion, or given any reasons that it might be true, or even reasons that it might be thought true--misinformation often has some basis in reality. (Except for Jeff's mention of the possible connection to temperatures and flow through the cooler of course, which hasn't been verified either.)

Tigerotor77W, you disappointed me! I did expect that you'd have been exposed to some of this somewhere along the way. We will expect a full report once you do get to the subject. :wink2 I'd hoped one of the CAT fellows might voice an opinion too.

And once we get this all sorted out, we can discuss the reaming Will Gurtner took from his boss for running the CAT 257B too hard; specifically, digging hard dirt and using all the throttle available. (I think the quote was something like. "I don't care how much work you get done with it! I want the machine to last for a while.")

jmac
10-22-2006, 12:29 PM
If and when you do get a answer to this question does it prove true for other machines besides skid steer. I have ben told that my Deere 450H dozer should be ran at full throttle or you could damage the machine.

digger242j
10-22-2006, 02:08 PM
If and when you do get a answer to this question does it prove true for other machines besides skid steer. I have ben told that my Deere 450H dozer should be ran at full throttle or you could damage the machine.

Who told you (meaning, was it an authoritative source?), and did they give a reason? Again, I'm not sure whether to believe that or not.

jmac
10-22-2006, 02:44 PM
A guy that owns a very large company, has his own full time shop with two machanics, 6 dump trucks, around 30 employees, 30 machines.
I listen to him. :notworthy If I remember rite I think it has to do with cooling. I run my skid at full to 3/4, I don't burn that much more fuel and find it is just easier that way, same with excavator, my Case BD690 rollers manual says to run at full if operating any virbration system.

digger242j
10-22-2006, 03:05 PM
A guy that owns a very large company, has his own full time shop with two machanics, 6 dump trucks, around 30 employees, 30 machines.

Well, then he probably knows more than I do. :)


my Case BD690 rollers manual says to run at full if operating any virbration system.

Now, that I wouldn't question. Since RPMs affect the speed in vibratory system...

jmac
10-22-2006, 06:06 PM
Well, then he probably knows more than I do.
Sir Digger I don't know if he knows more than you do, but I know he knows more than I do.:)

Jeff D.
10-22-2006, 10:51 PM
Digger, I found this in a John Deere skid steer operators manuel. It say before even releasing the parking brake that you push the throttle wide open.

1. Before driving machine, lower the boom. If the boom is locked in the raised position, disengage the boom locks and lower the boom.

KV15233

2. Push throttle lever (A) all the way forward to the full throttle position.

3. Disengage the park brake switch.

NOTE: The right steering lever (B) controls right drive wheels, and the left steering lever (C) controls left drive wheels:

KV15231

4. Activate the steering control levers:

· Push both levers forward at the same time to go forward.

· Pull both levers back at the same time to go backward.

· Push one lever forward and pull the other lever backward at the same time to make a short turn.

· Slowly return levers to the middle (neutral) position to stop.

It goes on to explain the use of all controls but I didn't see anywhere where they mentioned throttling back, except when shutting it down. This machine didn't have a foot throttle.

Jeff D.
10-22-2006, 10:59 PM
That was for their models 260 & 270 skid steer.

Heres the operators manuel: http://manuals.deere.com/cceomview/OMKV11663_C1/Output/kv11663c15.html

Jeff D.
10-24-2006, 02:22 PM
No comments on that Digger?

This is the feeling I got from reading that operators manuel. Although it didn't answer the question of "will running less than full throttle damage the skid steer", it gives me the sense that on atleast the JD 260 & 270 that they have the idea that the machine will be run at full throttle while being used. Even the spot where they say "before shutting down pull the throttle back to 1/2 throttle" gives that indication to me.

So, although that fly's in the face of what my original thoughts on the subject were, and unless we get something that contradicts it, I'm now going to consider running my Bobcat atleast near full throttle unless I'm stopped or doing work that needs very slow, careful movement or I need to hear someones instructions better.

Squizzy246B
10-24-2006, 05:59 PM
Jeff Ultimatley you wont hurt the hydraulics...it all depends on what the engine is set up to do. If it was a constant speed engine and setup to run on the governor with no foot throttle..open her up and let her go.

digger242j
10-25-2006, 10:51 AM
Yeah, what Squizzy said. :yup

Thanks, Jeff, for citing something from an owner's manual. That makes it a little more definite, but at the same time, it gives no recommendation not to run at less than full throttle. Owner's manuals are full of "Don't" warnings--the fact that there isn't any such warning about throttle setting still leaves it a little ambiguous, at least to my way of thinking.

I'm still waiting to hear from someone who can, with authority, cite a good reason to avoid lower throttle settings.

will_gurt
10-25-2006, 06:56 PM
And once we get this all sorted out, we can discuss the reaming Will Gurtner took from his boss for running the CAT 257B too hard; specifically, digging hard dirt and using all the throttle available. (I think the quote was something like. "I don't care how much work you get done with it! I want the machine to last for a while.")

Why wait? My boss did yell at me quite loudly about running the skid at full throttle and trying loading at full throttle. When the Cat tech came out to fix a leaky "O" ring, I point blank asked him if running it this way would hurt a brand new machine. He basically said that it wasn't hurting anything running the machine like I was.

dayexco
10-26-2006, 12:17 PM
squizzy,

guess what? we're coming to kidnap beccy cole, and leaving you the dixie chix

digger242j
10-26-2006, 12:29 PM
squizzy,

guess what? we're coming to kidnap beccy cole, and leaving you the dixie chix

Hey! We've got enough trouble already; we don't need to add a war with Australia...

dayexco
10-26-2006, 12:46 PM
take a second and watch beccy cole's video...very inspiring

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/10/beccy_cole_post.html

Squizzy246B
10-26-2006, 05:56 PM
Hey! We've got enough trouble already; we don't need to add a war with Australia...

If you didn't already know we are already at war...with the US FDA...for banning Vegemite:mad: Thats serious stuff.

I haven't listened to Beccy Cole much....but Casey Chambers appears in the playlist occaisionally. I listen to that vid later.

digger242j
10-26-2006, 06:16 PM
If you didn't already know we are already at war...with the US FDA...for banning Vegemite

Please, Squizzy, don't take the Vegemite thing personally. I'm sure it simply has to do with the fact that both jars that were sold here in the states last year were several years past their expiration date... :wink2

Countryboy
10-26-2006, 09:35 PM
Now wait a second. I was reading about proper throttle use but then I get to something about Vegemite. I know about the throttle but what is vegemite?:beatsme All this aside, I feel to be a victim of a drive-by hi-jacking.:guns Digger, as Super Mod I would expect better patroling of your threads to keep this from happening.:mad:


Good job Dayexco. Digger never saw it coming.:bouncegri :thumbsup

Jeff D.
10-26-2006, 10:07 PM
Digger, as Super Mod I would expect better patroling of your threads to keep this from happening.:mad: Who do you think taught everyone here how to thread hi-jack?:bouncegri

You just know this forum has to be under survailance as often as the word "Hi-jack" is brought up.

I'm just glad I don't actually mention the word "Hi-jacker" in my signiture.
Squizzy
_____________________________________________

Its better to be ignorant and ask a Stupid Question than to be plain Dumb and not ask at all - Screamed by High School Maths Teacher, 1979

Limestone Wall Builder
Budget Deficit Controller
Thread Hi-Jacker I've heard vegemite is something like dynamite, except it's taken orally. It also explains why Austalians are so fond, and never far away from these.http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showpost.php?p=11835&postcount=14
http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showpost.php?p=11836&postcount=15

So, whatever you do, don't pull Squizzy's finger no matter what he say's will happen!!:nono

digger242j
10-26-2006, 10:12 PM
Digger, as Super Mod I would expect better patroling of your threads to keep this from happening

If I don't allow my own threads to be hijacked, then I'll be expected to keep everybody else's threads from being hijacked too! That would be a lot like having to work. :yup

Maybe Beccy Cole is coming out with a new song about not running your skidsteer at half throttle? (They sing about some strange stuff Down Under...) :)

And this is Vegemite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite(Although, personally, I prefer my thread hijackings to be about Pineapple Upside Down cake.)

Countryboy
10-26-2006, 10:20 PM
That bottle just makes me feel dunny......I mean funny:dizzy . Does this make me an accomplice to this hi-jacking?:spaz

Squizzy246B
10-27-2006, 05:39 AM
We're hap-py lit-tle veg-e-mites
as bright as bright can be,
we all en-joy our Ve-ge-mite
for break-fast, lunch, and tea
our mum-mies say we're grow-ing stron-ger
eve-ry sin-gle week
be-cause we love our Ve-ge-mite
we all a-dore our Ve-ge-mite
it puts a rose in eve-ry cheek

well that or Bananas



(from the Better half)

Jeff D.
10-27-2006, 10:22 AM
"Vegemite.....will it be banned?" a story about it right on my home page this morning. http://www.slate.com/id/2152218/?GT1=8702

It seems that moderation is the key to it's use.

Maybe Digger can split the thread and start a new one titled "The proper use of Vegemite"

Squizzy246B
10-27-2006, 10:33 AM
It seems that moderation is the key to it's use.

Bollocks...was born an Bred on the stuff and look what its done for me:eek: :rolleyes:

Moderation should be used with things like the Lumberjack song;

I'm a Lumberjack and I'm Ok

:bouncegri

smalltime
10-27-2006, 05:40 PM
This is away from the vegemite & back on the throttle issue, but today I was running our case 455 track loader, & had the throttle thing in the back of my mind when it hit me, the 455 & our 1840 have the came Cummins engine. The 455 has a foot pedal (like an auto) & the 1840 has a hand throttle which you set. I am not sure it matters to the engines what level they run at.

digger242j
10-27-2006, 07:49 PM
This is away from the vegemite & back on the throttle issue, but today I was running our case 455 track loader, & had the throttle thing in the back of my mind when it hit me, the 455 & our 1840 have the came Cummins engine. The 455 has a foot pedal (like an auto) & the 1840 has a hand throttle which you set. I am not sure it matters to the engines what level they run at.

Well, you know, if you are going to un-hijack a thread, it's good to provide some useful information. Thank you. That was a very good point! :thumbsup

KSSS
12-17-2006, 04:41 PM
I have been to several CASE skid steer prototype demo sessions since 03'. Part of the evaluation process is to complete a series of excercises at full throttle and rate performance and go back and set the throttle at half speed and complete the same excercises. These are grading and digging type excercises. Not only do I think it does not hurt a machine to run a machine at less than full throttle, I think they engineer the machines to perform at the reduced RPMs. Some are better at it than others. Running a mulching head or asphalt planer at helf throttle may not be a great idea but certainly grading pallet fork work would not hurt anyones machine. I typically set the throttle at 3/4 and run like that. If I need more go I use the foot throttle for the rest.

skidsteer.ca
12-27-2006, 11:34 PM
My NH ls160 manual say to use full throttle after a warm up period. And i think if you need max wheel speed or max hyd horsepower to your attachment, then this is the most productive way to run the machine. If I'm blowing snow or brush mowing I use WOT.
However there are many time when I'm not working my loaders to their full capacity and I use a throttle setting thats proportionate to the amount of work I expect to do.
I do avoid throttle settings that leave the pumps moaning and groaning. That is definitely to low. But if the machine is not complaining then I think it fast enough.
I have never seen anywhere in my 553, 753, 773 or 853 bobcat manuals where the said use WOT (wide open throttle)
Ken

DR RPM
12-28-2006, 02:18 PM
If a machine has a throttle pedal, then surely it was designed for use when doing finesse work, like the CAT skid steer and CASE 450 and 550 dozers. The work being done will dictate the level of rpms required ( i.e. box sweeping, planing or full dozer of material ) Even the large track-hoes have a reduced throttle level built into them for doing finesse work or increased fuel economy.:bash

HeyUvaVT
01-26-2007, 10:00 PM
When doing any grading/stripping with the RC100 (which has a SERIOUS amount of power btw) I run at 3/4 with the foot throttle....long distance transports across sites I run wide open...when running the cutter head I run 100% and im shoving the throttle through the floor looking for more because of the amount of power the cutter sucks up through the hydraulics...I have a friend that operates not OWNS mind you..another RC100 and he has it jam slam wide open from unloading to loading back on the trailer just food for thought...:thumbsup

SlickNick
01-28-2007, 05:44 AM
i normaly run my machine at 70% throttle and just use the accelerator anytime i need the extra power.

imfixinmopars
05-02-2007, 08:02 AM
i have a friend that is a maintenance super at a large 24/7-365 production facility,and bobcat/cat both told them to run the skids at full throttle all the time. the fac. thought of putting throttle stops to save fuel/wear,but the said no,its harder on the unit.all they do is move aluminum shavings.but as a mech,i feel like the rest,it seems uneasy to run a engine wfo all the time for a use that dictates 2/3,3/4 amount.

dieselsndirt
05-02-2007, 06:49 PM
on any skid loader that I have ran with a foot pedal i will use the foot pedal running around swapping attachments or loading and unloading. the way I see it is if you are working run the lever up to wide open. if you are moving around the shop or something that is where the foot pedal is handy. I am glad that my 90XT has a foot pedal. I use it all the time.
Bryan

jejennings
12-29-2007, 03:15 PM
There are a couple of guys on the job who say that you should run a skid steer with the engine wide open--that to do otherwise is bad for the machine. One mentioned that is was supposedly hard on the hydraulic pumps to be run at less than full throttle. I can't see that being true.

My guess is that the idea of running a skid loader wide open originated with the early models such as the Bobcats with 26 and 30 HP Wisconsin engines. I've got one of these and your really need to run it at full power when pushing its limits, such as digging topsoil. I place little credence in the need to run it full out all the time. When doing light work, such as cleaning stables, partial throttle is just fine.

Another possible reason for this advice, again stemming from the early models is that engines like the Wisconsin, were designed to be run at a constant speed and this is where the air cooling worked best.

pc40chas
04-01-2008, 08:52 PM
the way i was always taught, was excavater and skid steer run at full throttle and back end of a backhoe run at about 2000rpm[a little before the yellow line] never be afraid!

RTSmith
11-28-2009, 09:56 AM
Having read this thread from front to rear again, it is interesting. I run a Cat (with foot throttle) and set the hand midway, and foot it for any more. But when I am trying to reach a pre determined throttle point (as in teaching a new operator), I really miss a tach. Can someone please tell me why we don't see tachs on our skids? (and yes, my D4G doesn't have one either, but this isn't the thread for that). It sure would be nice to see exactly where the engine is. I've heard a lot of references to 70%, 75%, etc. but without a tach, its only an educated guess.

skidsteer.ca
11-28-2009, 10:18 AM
New Holland has a tach standard equipment,and Bobcat has one in they're high end guage package, not sure on the others.
You can pretty well tell by sound, but if you really want a tach there ae aftermarket ones.
Ken

smokey1
11-30-2009, 08:31 PM
My new Racoon has a foot pedal. I didn't like it at first, but have found it saves fuel, and i will have to say in the long run it might spare the machine a bit. I like to run skids steers about 80% RPM. My opinion ,If you are doing heavy work with your unit you can put undue stress on the drive motor or loader hydraulic pump if you run at very low RPM.
this is also the 1st skid I have owned without a Tach. I don't like that and will persue getting one. It should be easy because it's a Perkins 804-C33

Dodge07around
11-30-2009, 08:57 PM
I agree on running it about 70-80% is just right. Too low and that stalling action cant be good on it.

skidsteer.ca
11-30-2009, 09:54 PM
My new Racoon has a foot pedal. I didn't like it at first, but have found it saves fuel.
this is also the 1st skid I have owned without a Tach. I don't like that and will persue getting one. It should be easy because it's a Perkins 804-C33

So how do you like the Racoon? The good the bad if any?? How bout some detailed pics?


Autometer instruments and Datcon make diesel tachs. If the ring gear area has a 3/4" natinal fine thread hole,youcan screw a magnetic up sensor in there and get a tach signal from that.
Ken

smokey1
12-01-2009, 12:37 AM
It's to early to make good or bad about it, ,a few early comments , it is very powerful, heavy, about 6700 lbs, well footed balance, picks up 2000 in bucket easy. It has case style steering, I don't care for the loader controls, they seem backward to me. I had a case 1845 at one time , and if I remember, if you pushed down on the lever the loader arms went down., if I dumped the bucket, I pushed down on the lever. Well this unit, is just the opperset, It's easy to swap the lines at the loader valve If i want to change. However, If there is a standard, I want it right. Most all of my other skid steers had foot controls, so I find it a little hard to get use to . The service points seem a bit difficult to get at, but i'm not fully trained yet, on a service cycle. Documentation is hard to get, working on that. It's air conditioned, full cab, a bit tight, the price, was very right, and I will push a lot of snow very soon. I have no way of posting pictures at this time , so it will be a bit later. You can go to google and hit Hero Time co, and look at there line..
Thanks for the tack info. Smokey