Takeuchi Problem, Bent Track Frame

[atgreene]

I've got a problem and I'm not sure Takeuchi is going to help me with this one.

I bought this 135 Excavator new July 27, 2005. In April I noticed that the track frame seemed to be bent out. Using a staight edge I determined that it is bent approximately 3/4". The other side has a slight deflection, perhaps 1/8" at most, but the right side is bad enough so that you can put your fingers in beside the slide that the front idler slides in. In the first pic you can almost see a line between the arrows where the steel has bent.

The day I found it I called Adam my salesman/tech. at National Attachments and he said he'd come right up to look at it. Last week I figured I had waited long enough (we had talked a few times since and he said he hadn't had a chance to get out my way yet) so I called him back and he came right out.

After taking a bunch of photo's he said that Takeuchi may say it's operator abuse:mad: ! So I asked how the hell can I abuse a track frame to make it bend like that? He said he'd get back to me. At the time I noticed it the machine had 480 hours on it, when he came to look at it it had 600.

At this point I'm giving him plenty of time to get an answer for me as to how they are going to correct it.

Thus far, I've had an antifreeze leak that took three times to correct and a belt tossed because of improper install from fixing the antifreeze leak. (They tried to charge me $68.00 for the belt before I came unglued so they determined it was under warranty.)

Has anyone ever seen a track frame bend like this?

In the meantime, anyone looking at a Takeuchi feel free to mention my problem to your dealer, maybe they'll spread the word to take care of me so I don't discourage others from purchasing their machines.

[Steve Frazier]

Alan, perhaps you should mention your post here and what bad press might do for sales. Good luck!

[digger242j]

Alan, perhaps you should mention your post here and what bad press might do for sales. Good luck!

And how a good response to your complaint would show the brand in a positive light. They do have a chance to score points with the members here...

[Wulf]

It's hard to tell without actually seeing the construction of the frame but I would guess that some kind of abnormal force has been applied to the idler support and its bent/stretched the outer plate.

I've seen this on forestry excavators but not on a smaller machine like this.

To fix the larger machines we would straighten the frame and install a reinforcing plate on both sides. Based on experience we would sometimes reinforce from new (take a look at the forestry John Deere under 'Case vs Deere' thread)

It's a shame that your dealer is procrastinating and isn't communicating properly. I'm guessing that they will have trouble recovering their repair or replacement costs from the factory... they normally have 30 days from failure to fix it and submit their factory claim. Their choices are to replace the frame or repair and reinforce it. I would try and get them to repair and reinforce it.

[atgreene]

As near as I can determine the damage was caused by debris or a rock riding the idler or drive sproket, stretching the track and forceing the wheel out to compensate. I do not understand why the track seal did not blow with that much pressure on it. I have yet to blow a track seal yet whereas my old machine would lose one on a regular basis particularly when debris tried to run around the track causing undue stress.

Behind the plate is a 1" x 1" bar that ends where the bend is. I have no doubt that my welder and I can repair it and make even better, but it's up to Takeuchi to stand behind their 1 year warranty that supposedly covers the entire machine.

As far as press, I will invite the salesman and his boss to join us and explain why they won't fix it should they chose to abandon their warranty. I have directly sold 2 machines for them, not counting my own. Neither of which would have happened had I not encouraged those customers to go with Takeuchi because of my up-to-then positive experience with them.

I hope to hear from them soon but wanted some opinions in the meantime.

[atgreene]

I finally had enough yesterday. I have waited more than 8 weeks for the saleman to get back to me about this issue so I called him and insisted upon some action. He called me back and said Takeuchi says it was operator abuse but he is waiting for a call from the Vice President of Takeuchi (like I believe that) to see what he says.

After 4 years of owning a Takeuchi, it looks like this will be my last. They obviously don't stand behind their warranty and aren't concerned about keeping me as a customer. The only way for that track frame to have bent is if the steel either has a defect or the track seal failed to do its job and release pressure when needed.

I met with my Kubota dealer yesterday, we'll see what we can do.

Also, I have asked for a written response from Takeuchi so I can post it here.

[cat320]

That seams to be the response from all of the mfg's today.Not like you didn't pay for the machine .I had the same problem with fisher i'm sure you saw the pic over LTS they replaced the blade but where saying the same thing . yu can get a nice 121 or 161 in the kubota

[atgreene]

The salesman didn't call me today, despite assuring me yesterday he would. I'm debating if it's worth the $ to have my lawyer write a letter and file a complaint with the attorney general. I hate to be a *****, but it might be woth the $ to be a serious agrevation to them.

[atgreene]

Here is my letter to Takeuchi. I'm not sure it went through, as their website only allows you to open a "more info" box and does not show an actual email address.

I'm not sure who to direct this to, but I wish to file a complaint.

In July of 2005 I purchased a new Takeuchi 135 excavator from National Attachments In Gorham Maine.

As a prior Takeuchi owner and fan, I was confindent in the Takeuchi product and even convinced two of my friends to buy a Takeuchi.

Although I have had a couple small problems with my machine, I always was happy with it until April. That is when I found that the track frame on one side of the machine had bent just behind the idler wheel. The machine had 480 hours on it.

I immediately called my salesman/tech., Adam Lampron who assured me he would be right up to look at it. 5 weeks later I still had not seen Adam despite talking to him about other issues/parts in the interim and reminding him of the frame problem. Upon calling again with my concern, he came up and took some pictures. The machine then had over 600 hours on it.

Yesterday I finally had enough, more than 10 weeks from my intial complaint I called Adam again. He stated that Takeuchi told him they wouldn't cover it. When I emphatically expressed my displeasure he said that he would ask again to see if anything could be done.

A couple hours later he called me back saying that the engineers stated that it was operator abuse. He complained on my behalf and was awaiting a call from the Vice President of Takeuchi?

My complaint is this, in order for my track frame to have bent than debris would have had to enter into the idler wheel or drive cog. In order for this to happen than obviously, there needs to be a shield of some sort.

Further, why didn't my track adjuster seal blow instead of allowing enough pressure to acummulate to bend a steel formed plate? My former Takeuchi would never have even turned the tracks when faced with such force, and even if it came close, the track seal would release preventing damage.

I would like some sort of written response from Takeuchi on this issue. I do not feel that National Attachment is taking my complaint serious nor do I feel that they even took my warranty complaint to you until yesterday.

In fairness to your company I have posted my issue and picture on Heavyequipmentforums.com and would welcome your reply to the members there as they are curious to see how this will be handled.

The link to the forum related to this matter is http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1549

Thank you in advance for your written reply to this issue.

Sincerely,
Alan T. Greene

[PSDF350]

Good letter Alan.

[Wulf]

The only way for that track frame to have bent is if the steel either has a defect or the track seal failed to do its job and release pressure when needed.

Alan, does your excavator have a recoil spring between the idler and the track adjuster? On larger excavators the recoil spring will compress when the idler is pushed back when turning/travelling or when pulled back when packing occurs in the chain and sprocket teeth.

[atgreene]

Yes it does have a spring.

[cat320]

I can't wait to see what the response is from them .

[cat320]

I can't wait to see what the response is from them .

[Wulf]

Good luck with settling the issue and bear with me while I add my couple of cents...

I don't agree that the track adjuster seals will protect the undercarriage components from overload. The recoil springs on a machine like yours will likely take over a ton to begin to compress and the load increases proportional to movement probably up to several tons. I recall years ago on some small dozers that track packing (like in snow or mud) would occur until the tracks became so tight that the machine stopped moving and the torque converter would stall in second or third speed.

On excavators though the travel motors are extremely powerful, they also have a shift down function to low speed when they sense high pressure in the drive motor circuit.

My guess would be that the track became packed with material and the damage to the frame occurred during turning when the load on the idler was not linear... not exactly operator abuse.

Anyway, I hope you guys can sort it out, I would straighten and reinforce the frame. Maybe Takeuchi could provide prints/plates and a procedure for your dealer to repair the machine and reinforce both sides?

[Dwan Hall]

It's an excavator. what constitutes abuse? I own a TB 070 and have done things to it that no man should do. The only abuse I could think of would be not to have serviced it. What do they expect you to do with the machine? wash it and wax it then leave it in a show room? It is made to dig in the dirt, rocks, hardpan, clay, etc.
It sounds to me like your dealer has not pased your complaint on to Takuchi, and is trying to cover there lack of concern by stating that Takuchi says it is the operators falt.
If I were you I would insist that the Takuchi district rep come and look at the machine.
There is no way on Gods green earth that a rubber tracked machine should be able to bend that frame.

Dwan

[Wulf]

It's an excavator. what constitutes abuse? I own a TB 070 and have done things to it that no man should do. The only abuse I could think of would be not to have serviced it. What do they expect you to do with the machine? wash it and wax it then leave it in a show room? It is made to dig in the dirt, rocks, hardpan, clay, etc.


I'm not commenting on Alan's failure but excavators can be abused and I can think of and have seen lots of it (not by any posters here I would imagine)...

:nono corner loading buckets, using too heavy, large and wide a bucket with the wrong material, using an excavator stick or bucket as a hammer or piledriver, aggressive digging over the side, violently rapping out the bucket to loosen material stuck in the bucket, using too wide a track shoe in stumps and rocks, unnecessary high travel speed and travel distance, bumping the frame, panels and counterweight when swinging, improper cold start up and hot shut down procedure, hotwiring the excavator power boost function (supposed to give an 8 second power boost - not 8 hr boost):nono

[atgreene]

Now I seem to at least be gaining ground. My salesman has forwarded me these emails from Takeuchi. I'll let you guys know how I make out, but at least there seems to be hope.


Take a look.
Sincerly,
Adam Lampron
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Stewart
To: Adam Lampron
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: AT Greene TB135 13515965


Adam,



I looked at the pictures and talked to all our service guys. We have not seen this on a TB135 or any excavator for that matter in over 7 years. The pictures do not help me completely understand if a weld broke or the metal stretched or if it is a customer issue. When did the customer notice this thing being bent? Has the idler come off or out? Can you get any better picture of the underside of the frame? Right now it looks to me as if the machine were pulled with something on that side. Absent any other pictures or info, I would say that this is not a warrantable failure. I will call when I get in next week.

Thanks,






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Adam Lampron [mailto:alampron@nationalattachments.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 3:27 PM
To: Jeff Stewart
Subject: Fw: AT Greene TB135 13515965



Jeff can you please call me concerning this issue with my customers machine. Darrell, Sam, and Wiley have reviewed this and have come up with the conclusion that this was the fault of the operator. I disagree. Can we help this customer in some way....this machine is still under warranty...this could cause me big problems with any future sale. This is AT Greenes second Takeuchi. Call me on my cell 207-***-****.



Thank you,

Adam Lampron

----- Original Message -----

From: Adam Lampron

To: sthornton@takeuchi-us.com

Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 9:37 AM

Subject: AT Greene TB135 13515965



Sam, the side of the frame has pulled away form the idler. The right side has the problem, compare this to the left side. What do you think, and can I have the customer call and talk with you?



Sincerely,

Adam Lampron

[atgreene]

Quick update:

Adam (salesman/tech) is still waiting to hear from Takeuchi on this. I got a voice mail from him this evening and he's concerned that I'm making National Attachments looks bad by my saying that I didn't believe that they had notified Takeuchi on this issue. He did in fact notify them that it was an issue in early June. I am trying to call Adam back to apologize and I want to make it clear that he DID notify Takeuchi of the problem. He didn't hoever follow it up with me until I called June 30.

[atgreene]

I did finally get a check from Takeuchi. Although they admitted no fault they did feel that they could help me with the repair. My camera was doa so I had to use my camera phone to get the pics. I'll get a couple better ones of the actual repair tomorrow. We heated the bent frame and clamped it back in place. Then welded 2 - 1/2"x2" flat bars along both sides of the machine to prevent future problems.

After looking everything over I think the crux of the problem was Takeuchi has amazing track turning power, much more so than the Kubota's and Bobcats I have run. I suspect that when the track fills with rocks or gravel or mud and it is forced around the idler wheel it places too much strain on the frame and it of course deflects sideways. Hopefully this will fix the problem.

Adam, National Attachments and Takeuchi have been super since we got this all straightened out. Obviously it took some proding and Adam admitted he perhaps should have gotten back to me sooner and stayed on top of it. Either way, I'm glad we're getting along and he has been once again awesome to deal with.

[atgreene]

The last pic shows the blade upgrade we made to widen the blade to hopefully prevent some of the material from falling down in the track. The idea being if we can keep the track clean when dozing, we may prevent undercarriage problems in the future. That is a hard-ox cutting edge. $$$ expensive but cuts the tops off rocks and stumps like there not even there. The mild steel cutting edge was worn right out anyway.

The track fix came to $310.00 btw.

[JBL]

I'm no fabrication expert but wouldn't it have been better to gusset the hard bar to the track frame where the bending occurs? Looks to me like it will just try to bend again in front of the new straps, unless your dozer blade modification cures the problem.

[atgreene]

The only section where it can bend now has those pieces of flat bar to prevent it from bending. In front of the straps there is no strain on the frame. All the force is behind and beside the idler wheel. Sorry for the bad pics, I'll get some good ones today.

[Wulf]

Excuse the pun but its great to hear that you guys got it 'straightened out':)

[KSSS]

It is amazing, all that for a repair that was less than 400 dollars. The only issue I see now is the resale hit you will take when it comes time to trade in. Nobody likes to see reinforcing or extra welding rod on an excavator uless it is the bucket. I just purchased my second Takeuchi (TB53 and now a TB153). I think they are very powerful machines. I would like to have seen this situation handled better than it was. I have known others that have had to fight with TK over issues. I have not but others here have.

[atgreene]

When all was said and done, it really boiled down to a lack of communication on the dealerships (salesman/service). All is well since.

[farmboy9510]

Glad to here everything worked out for you

[willie59]

May I throw a theory in here. Could your bent frame have been caused by those possibly troublesome holes in the idler? I see you live in Maine; I'm not sure about your area, but I know a lot of New England has Glacial Till soil, dirt that has lots and lots of small to large rounded stones that glaciers formed as they moved. And they are hard stones, such as quartz. Softer rock was simply chewed up by glaciers, the remaining stones are hard stuff. Is it possible one of these rounded stones got lodged in one of those holes of the idler, then once the idler turned and the stone encountered the track frame, the idler hole would have effectively crammed it through, leaving you with a convenient bent frame on your machine and a fight with Tak? :idea