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RobVG
09-01-2009, 09:29 PM
There was a time when a 50/50 mix of Napa green antifreeze was all you had to worry about. Now there are several types out there. Red, green , gold - you name it. You can use "this" on Chryslers but you have to use "this" for your GM vehicles.

Ethylene glycol vs. Organcic/Acid base.

On and on.

I have become painfully aware of the need for nitrite testing and managment. Our old decrepid POS 86 International got a hole in her cylinder liner. Actually I was really glad to see her go, took 1/3 of my time working on it. Now work is so slow I wish we had it back.

Anyway, why cant there be one GD type of antifreeze that works with everything...

Kgmz
09-01-2009, 10:32 PM
There are some new products that are supposed to be compatible with any type of antifreeze.

Prestone Extended Life is one of them.

http://www.prestone.com/products/antifreezeCoolant.php

RobVG
09-01-2009, 10:51 PM
Thanks for that.

Peak also has a similar poduct called "Global". It has been found not to mix with all antifreeze. I sent our new Fuso service truck in because I thought it had diesel in the coolant. The overflow tank is visible on the outside of the truck and there was a definate separation line. It was flamable so I assumed it was diesel. Little did I know that my helper had added Peak Global.

I believe Neither Peak or Prestone are formulated for diesel applications. And I've been told that Organic/Acid base will replace a coolant with Nitrite like CAT ELC.

Is it simpler than this or am I just dense?

Muffler Bearing
09-01-2009, 10:57 PM
They really do have all colors of the rainbow. A friend made alot of sense to me when he said " Sure that premium stuff is amazing in an over the road truck that does 70mph all day long every day. But think about how often your trucks lose a water pump or even a radiator hose" (on my mixers this is fairly often) " How much do you save when that premium blue coolant is spilling into a puddle in the dirt"
Needless to say I stock up on green coolant, test strips and DCA. I still haven't found the best rad hose though.


of course that's only on the trucks I can get away with that, I have red for the ISX and C-15's

Kgmz
09-01-2009, 11:16 PM
The Prestone site says it meets ASTM D4985 if you click on the technology link.

ASTM D4985 is for heavy duty engines and works with SCA.

Standard Specification for Low Silicate Ethylene Glycol Base Engine Coolant for Heavy Duty Engines Requiring a Pre-Charge of Supplemental Coolant Additive (SCA)


I bought some of this Prestone, so I guess I will see what happens when I need to use some.

RobVG
09-01-2009, 11:20 PM
Well MufflerBearing, I hadn't heard of DCA. Looks like it's the same as SCA.

Too many damn acronyms.

amunderdog
09-01-2009, 11:41 PM
Did you try Silicone hoses?
Expensive and take a special clamp.

RobVG
09-03-2009, 11:57 PM
Starting to get a handle on antifreeze. Got some new test strips and checked our Zaxis's today- "0" ppm Nitrite. Went to the dealer and simply asked "What kind of antifreeze comes with the Zaxis?"
Of course they said "green"- with a snicker. "Is it supposed to contain nitrites?" I said.
"Ah.... hmmm". He didn't know.
The other counter guy said, "you don't add nitrites, you don't have to do anything." So now I ask, "Is this Organic/acid technology?"
The sales rep overheard this and wanted to know "What the hell is that?"
"Show me your antifreeze", I said. He handed me a gallon of Coolgard II and right on the back label it said "Organic Acid" "contains no nitrite". I read this outloud and a voice somewhere from a back office shouts "Yeah, no nitrite."

From what I can gather, Organic/acid takes the place of nitrites and silicates for corrosion protection and anti-cavitation. The benefit of Org/Acid is that you don't have to maintain nitrite levels and silicates dont come out of solution.

Please correct me if I'm wrong-and add any other antifreeze tips/wisdom you care to.

John C.
09-04-2009, 07:26 PM
I haven't followed this part of the industry much but I can tell a little about the Isuzu engine in your Zaxis. It has dry liners so the regular old ethylene glycol (green) based stuff works just fine. Change it every two years and you will have no problems at all.

Good Luck!

RobVG
09-04-2009, 08:19 PM
Thanks John

...Appreciate it.

Whatshesaid
09-06-2009, 02:03 PM
Rob, does the Coolgard II label say that is both nitrite and silicate free?

Whatshesaid
09-06-2009, 02:05 PM
Sorry, it should have said:

Rob, does the Coolgard II label say that it is both nitrite and silicate free?

RobVG
09-06-2009, 03:39 PM
If I remember right, it didnt' contain silicates.


I don't use or sell this product but their website has some good general info.
Final Charge (http://www.finalcharge.com/organic.html)

I bet ya conventional diesel antifreeze is going the way of freon...

Dualie
09-06-2009, 11:27 PM
I can tell you DO NOT mix regular green low silicate coolant with any ELC (extended life coolant)

Conventional Green + Orange ELC = PEANUT BUTTER!

I had to back flush my X girlfriends bronco half a dozen times before the radiator and heater core would flow.

I currently stock 3 different kinds of coolants for my fleet.

Regular green Low silicate antifreeze. Goes in everything that had green coolant originally, pre-02 Ford diesels and most if not all of the 2000 or older engine driven equipment.

Gold G-05 coolants (closest thing to a universal coolant i could find) required for the 02+ powerstrokes and other ford trucks. its a long life OAT (organic acid technology) coolant. Its backward compatible in the powerstrokes and some other vehicles.

And lastly orange ELC. I have some CAT orange ELC for the Caterpillars and Chevron Delo ELC for the kneworth.

Also i keep PLENTY of DCA-4 SCA in stock for the diesels that get Green low silicate coolant.

Also to not NOT ALL green coolant is low silicate. None of the coolants sold at walmart are low silicate.

I keep around 30 gallons of distilled water around for mixing with all of the coolants its VERY cheep insurance that your giving your multi thousand dollar motor the best care you can.

other stocked items are coolant test strips and a refractometer.

RobVG
09-07-2009, 12:03 PM
Thanks Dualie, that's the kind of information I'm looking for.

Refractometer? Is that some kind of turbidity tester?

(I used to buy distilled water for coolant and batteries. Now I just go to the water cooler in the office:D)

Whatshesaid
09-07-2009, 12:25 PM
Final Charge is a plain organic acid coolant, while Coolgard II is a "hybrid" according to their lubes/fluids catalog:



It may still contain silicate, borate, phosphate etc. Who knows?

All other product information I can find says nitrite free, but nothing about silicates.

http://www.landmarkimp.com/images/homepage/coolgard.pdf

and: [url]https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/5686_fb_AntiFreezeCoolGard.htm#_Cool-Gard_II_concentrate (https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/featbene/OilMaintenanceSolutions.pdf)

Can anyone educate me about coolgard II?

Dualie, you seem to "manage" your coolants very well, but how about using G 05 in place of the "green" coolant?

Dualie
09-07-2009, 05:27 PM
Dualie, you seem to "manage" your coolants very well, but how about using G 05 in place of the "green" coolant?

I Definitely know that its MORE Than possible to change out conventional green coolants for G-05 i just dont have the guts to do it. Especially in our older Ford IDI diesels that were so cavitation prone to begin with.


Thanks Dualie, that's the kind of information I'm looking for.

Refractometer? Is that some kind of turbidity tester?

(I used to buy distilled water for coolant and batteries. Now I just go to the water cooler in the office:D)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_handheld_refractometer should provide you good info. I have 3 of them that i bought off ebay for around $50 Most accurate way to truly gauge coolant concentration and freeze point. They can also be used to check electrolyte levels in battery's

I would be weary of using water from the water cooler in the office unless its specifically says its distilled or R. O. (reverse osmosis) water. If its just bottled spring water it more than likely ranks up there with well water with the amount of minerals and JUNK floating in it.

Thankfully i don't have any Detroit left in the fleet so i only need to stock DCA-4 and Not DCA-2

DarrylMueller
09-12-2009, 08:57 PM
Chevron EL is guarrented for heavy duty diesel for 5 years and you never have to add additives. We add Redline weterwater to get rid of any bubbles as a standard practice, for cavatation. Love the these 2 products, 3 years in all the equipment.

Speedpup
09-13-2009, 04:38 PM
Well I hate to admitt it but I never knew of the test strips and I bought some. I'll be testing my anti-freeze soon.

RobVG
09-22-2009, 08:42 PM
Well, I'm still learning about antifreeze and additives.

I added Pencool to some coolant in an Hitachi 160LC only to find that it was organic technology. I emailed Penray.com to ask what I should do next. I was told I could "convert" the organic to a conventional antifreeze and maintain it as such.

Long story short, they put me in touch with their regional manager- Garret Funk. He stop by my shop today and spent over an hour answering my questions and suggesting ways to make my maintenance program better. He was a pleasure to talk to and told me to give his email to anyone that might have questions about antifreeze and additives- gfunk@penray.com

If you need help with your coolant needs, Garret is the guy to talk to.

Cheers,
Rob

V16CatMetKanick
09-23-2009, 10:17 PM
The green stuff protects just fine, I've got equipment with multi-thousands of hours on them with green in them. Acid based a/f lets rust and corrosion form then it attacks it, thats why GM Dex-Cool anr Cat-Cool turns to mud in an iron block. Green puts a layer of slime on metal and stops the formation of rust and corrosion before it starts. Houghton Chemical makes a great green for diesels and I've used it alot with good results.

Dualie
09-23-2009, 11:57 PM
I forgot to mention that you can add SCA's to the gold G-05 coolants but then they have to be treated like conventional green coolant with test strips and the like.

Speedpup
10-13-2009, 08:07 PM
when I change the coolant on my JD motors in my Lulls what should I do? Flush the systems with anything? I have Prestone green in them. Local JD dealer has no JD coolant:( Lull calls for Perma Guard when I google it it said it is made by Atlas or is there another brand of it? Thanks.

Where do you recycle the coolant same places as oil?

I also bought some penn cool aditive should I use it? I didn't really read the bottle yet and they also have a additive to flush?

watglen
10-13-2009, 09:40 PM
OK, now i'm afraid to go read my antifreeze container!

You guys are all way ahead of me regarding antifreeze.

All i know is when i converted my fleet to long life coolant, it was actually cheaper to buy the premixed version, than the 'add my own water' variety.

willie59
10-13-2009, 10:48 PM
You guys are all way ahead of me regarding antifreeze.

I'm with ya watglen. I'm tryin' to figure out when and how we went from antifeeze in an engine to...rocket science! :D

Speedpup
10-14-2009, 07:36 PM
OK, now i'm afraid to go read my antifreeze container!

You guys are all way ahead of me regarding antifreeze.

All i know is when i converted my fleet to long life coolant, it was actually cheaper to buy the premixed version, than the 'add my own water' variety.

I never saw premixed until yesterday. One gallon was 8.99 and 50/50 mix was 10+ how would that be cheaper? What prices did you find? thanks

watglen
10-14-2009, 11:03 PM
I forget, but it was an odd coincidence. May have been a mistake. The long life product was a special order for my dealer.